PVP is so whack

SameMeteor26 · April 2019

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

Edit: I’m running 5 shackle 5 lich 1 pirate skeleton 1 might Chudan.

I have about 1500 crit resis

Combo: LA, curse, rune prison, LA, crushing shock, LA, crystal as curse goes off, lighting as execute if low enough

I play both CP and non CP campaigns

Beardimus · April 2019

List your build and folks can probably help you further.
What's your crit resist?
playing in cp or noCP? What skills you using, what CC / combo etc will all help.

PvP can feel like that at first, like they all in god mode. But some key things in your setup help, and understanding how you mitigate damage etc etc and it will all click.

VaranisArano · April 2019

Well, what is your damage combo, and how much damage are you expecting it to do vs players with a decent amount of crit resistance? CP Cyrodiil, or No CP PVP? Are you also using a fair bit of critical resistances so you don't get melted by their critical hits?

InvictusApollo · April 2019

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

The first problem that I see is that you have listed only your stats and not your build. We need more informations if we are to help you. Tell us what sets are you using and whether you play in CP or noCP campaign. Also share your combo please.

Digiman · April 2019

Depends on the build but the go to is to put daedric curse, slam them with mages fury and impluse and hope crystal fragments proc before the curse explodes, fire fragment as the curse bursts them down into execute range for mages fury to proc.

Magsorcs are heavily reliant on burst setups and not steady dps.

SameMeteor26 · April 2019

Digiman wrote: »

Depends on the build but the go to is to put daedric curse, slam them with mages fury and impluse and hope crystal fragments proc before the curse explodes, fire fragment as the curse bursts them down into execute range for mages fury to proc.

Magsorcs are heavily reliant on burst setups and not steady dps.

Yeah that’s my combo

geonsocal · April 2019

probably not useful, but, playing different classes and playstyles has really helped me over the years...

it's not something I do much myself - but, if your concern is 1v1, you'll probably need to hang around the undaunted enclaves and do some dueling...

as a mag sorc having your attack combos down pat is super important...you only have a small window to execute someone...if you miss that window you have to have a plan for resetting the fight...

good luck - unless of course it's me you meet up with in pvp

Jimmy_The_Fixer · April 2019

If you have a friend who plays Magsorc in pvp, you can have him duel you a bunch of times and tell you what you’re doing wrong.

JumpmanLane · April 2019

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

Edit: I’m running 5 shackle 5 lich 1 pirate skeleton 1 might Chudan.

I have about 1500 crit resis

Combo: LA, curse, rune prison, LA, crushing shock, LA, crystal as curse goes off, lighting as execute if low enough

I play both CP and non CP campaigns

You mentioned everything but your penetration...and how much damage do you expect running 2 sustain sets. Add some damage to that build. I can hit like 18k pen, so you'd be eating 10k cyro whips if they crit with like 2% mitigation if you're not blocking...

regime211 · April 2019

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

Edit: I’m running 5 shackle 5 lich 1 pirate skeleton 1 might Chudan.

I have about 1500 crit resis

Combo: LA, curse, rune prison, LA, crushing shock, LA, crystal as curse goes off, lighting as execute if low enough

I play both CP and non CP campaigns

"Get good"

Alucardo · April 2019

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I have about 1500 crit resis

This isn't the good ol' days where sorcs could run very little crit resists and hide behind their shields. Of course you're getting melted. Your build sounds pretty solid, but you have to get those resists up, especially if you're 470cp in a CP campaign. Even the NPC wolves would cut through you like butter.

Beardimus · April 2019

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

Edit: I’m running 5 shackle 5 lich 1 pirate skeleton 1 might Chudan.

I have about 1500 crit resis

Combo: LA, curse, rune prison, LA, crushing shock, LA, crystal as curse goes off, lighting as execute if low enough

I play both CP and non CP campaigns

Why the split Monster Helms? Assume you have boundless on your bar?

SameMeteor26 · April 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

Edit: I’m running 5 shackle 5 lich 1 pirate skeleton 1 might Chudan.

I have about 1500 crit resis

Combo: LA, curse, rune prison, LA, crushing shock, LA, crystal as curse goes off, lighting as execute if low enough

I play both CP and non CP campaigns

Why the split Monster Helms? Assume you have boundless on your bar?

No boundless. And both those helms give physical and spell resis

Alucardo · April 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

Edit: I’m running 5 shackle 5 lich 1 pirate skeleton 1 might Chudan.

I have about 1500 crit resis

Combo: LA, curse, rune prison, LA, crushing shock, LA, crystal as curse goes off, lighting as execute if low enough

I play both CP and non CP campaigns

Why the split Monster Helms? Assume you have boundless on your bar?

I've actually seen a few sorcs start doing this with Chudan and skele. After coming across some, I can honestly say it does make them rather tanky, especially with boundless/hurricane on top of that

therift · April 2019

"I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years."

I used to think that way, the first few months when I got serious about Cyrodiil. But the truth is, PvE does little to prepare one for PvP. Itis a L2P issue, because you must L2P against an entirely different rule set.

First: Reaction. You must train the eye and muscle memory to react instantly when attacked.

Second: Flexibility. While PvE requires a set rotation honed to perfection, PvP is much more dynamic. You need a selection of skill combos depending on the build, skill level, and tactical choices of your opponent.

To be specific, you would never be able to land your full rotation on me without some help. Even if I never see you, as soon as that first LA lands, I'm reacting, and will probably block or dodge Step 2, 3, and maybe 4 of your rotation. Even if I fail, I'll purge your Curse and break free from Rune Cage. At that point I have CC immunity, I'm popping a potion, and I'm on the attack. That's within 3 seconds, 5 at most, of your first LA.

This is not to say you should dump your rotation. The issue you're dealing with is that PvE has trained you to consistently and reliably deliver a smooth rotation. For PvP, you must learn to instantly recognize when the rotation has been foiled and a change in tactic is required: reposition, retreat, different attack, etc.

And if I see you first, if I see a sorc pet (or Gandalf hat) I know exactly what you're going to do, and I'm going to stop you by cc or interrupt or gap close to stun. As Geonsocal said, you must have your combo down pat: not as a rotation, but as combos you can fluidly intermix with reaction and defense.

I strongly encourage you to keep at it. Run with small groups - you'll learn little in a zerg - and save video from your fights to review. It'll surprise you how many mistakes appear in review. And small group will help you with reaction and tactics.

Like Beardimus said, your first few weeks will feel like everyone but you is godmode. Keep at it. Because there will be that one clear day when it all comes together, and it will be you who rules the battlefield.

technohic · April 2019

I'd run with double that crit resist and you're probably just running base light armor penetration where I like at around 10 k. Ele drain helps for that and you shouldn't need 2 sustain sets.

Canned_Apples · April 2019

Isn't the go to Necro + pariah? with shadow rend as a monster set
Are you running Twilight + Harden + healing ward + harness magicka?
several sorcs also exploit the bad targeting system by standing in the middle of their twilight, or kiting around it.

Iki · April 2019

You need more resistances, especially as not cp-capped player. Try to get close to 25k resistances and 2.5-3k crit resits. And consider replacing lich with bright throats or spinner to get more damage-output. Awesome sustain is small comfort if you get one-shotted and your damage just tickles opponents.

ChunkyCat · April 2019

Been playing for years but only 470 cp?

Guess you don’t play very often.

SameMeteor26 · April 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Been playing for years but only 470 cp?

Guess you don’t play very often.

No not really. I play eso in short burst then usually get burnt out and don’t play again for a while. I got the game on release lol

Anyron · April 2019

question first. how do you like to play your sorcerer? you have two options : petsorc and puresorc

petsorc is about to sacrifice two skillslots ( one on first and one on second skillbar ) in order to receive very strong burst heal which can help with your survivability ( using hardened ward only )

puresorc is more like old sorcerer running with 2 shields, stacking them
both these setups requires at least 20k armor in no-CP which you could get by your current monster sets + boundless storm, or 2pcs of mighty chudan

running two resource sets seems like overkill to me. depends on race but you should be able to have good sustain in no-cp with only 1 resource set and 1 damage set

i can advice you two sets - for pure sorc use spell strategist +Bright throat's boast
- for petsorc use necropotence + Bright throat's boast

- getting weakness to elements can also really help you since it is 5,2k penetration on just one skill
- getting Infused destro staff is also good idea
- defensive rune is great skill if you teach to re-cast it when its used. then you can keep enemy always under Hard CC
- Dark deal instead of Dark conversion can help you manage your stamina to be always full - always ready when CC break or roll dodge is needed. you can have full stamina from empty with 3 quick skills which is super good when fighting 1v1 -- but it can be interrupted so be careful with it

Zer0oo · April 2019

PvP is especial at the beginning hard but quite fun when you start to understand how it works.(If it is not laggy and not everything bugged)

Maybe watch some videos of good mag sorcs on youtube and or look for a eso pvp streamer.

Also keep in mind that there are many different lvl of exp players out there and they one that run around solo or small scale are in general really good and know what they are doing. If you fight them the chances that you will go down rather fast are really high.

geonsocal · April 2019

@SameMeteor26 ...man, I completely forgot the whole watching vid of yourself thing...

it can be a little humbling

very revealing though...I remember the first time I did that I was amazed at just how much I was needlessly spamming my abilities (this was back in the glorious infinite sustain age)...

now, not if, but when I lose a fight I usually know why...

i can understand how you might want to really get this mag sorc thing worked out, but, you may be comfortable with a different class or playstyle altogether...

personally, my stam and mag sorc are great for zerg surfing, I can finish off low health targets pretty easy - catch me alone on one of them, and, my margin for error is way less than on a much tankier or better healing character...

ezio45 · April 2019

Sorcs only excel at kiling squishes and were in heavy armor meta

SameMeteor26 · April 2019

Anyron wrote: »

question first. how do you like to play your sorcerer? you have two options : petsorc and puresorc

petsorc is about to sacrifice two skillslots ( one on first and one on second skillbar ) in order to receive very strong burst heal which can help with your survivability ( using hardened ward only )

puresorc is more like old sorcerer running with 2 shields, stacking them
both these setups requires at least 20k armor in no-CP which you could get by your current monster sets + boundless storm, or 2pcs of mighty chudan

running two resource sets seems like overkill to me. depends on race but you should be able to have good sustain in no-cp with only 1 resource set and 1 damage set

i can advice you two sets - for pure sorc use spell strategist +Bright throat's boast
- for petsorc use necropotence + Bright throat's boast

- getting weakness to elements can also really help you since it is 5,2k penetration on just one skill
- getting Infused destro staff is also good idea
- defensive rune is great skill if you teach to re-cast it when its used. then you can keep enemy always under Hard CC
- Dark deal instead of Dark conversion can help you manage your stamina to be always full - always ready when CC break or roll dodge is needed. you can have full stamina from empty with 3 quick skills which is super good when fighting 1v1 -- but it can be interrupted so be careful with it

in my opinion the two resource sets were needed because I fly through magicka. I’m terrible at sustain. Even with pots and my high Magicka Recovery I still have to spam dark deal a lot to get my magicka back. But I will try out a damage set.

SameMeteor26 · April 2019

geonsocal wrote: »

@SameMeteor26 ...man, I completely forgot the whole watching vid of yourself thing...

it can be a little humbling

very revealing though...I remember the first time I did that I was amazed at just how much I was needlessly spamming my abilities (this was back in the glorious infinite sustain age)...

now, not if, but when I lose a fight I usually know why...

i can understand how you might want to really get this mag sorc thing worked out, but, you may be comfortable with a different class or playstyle altogether...

personally, my stam and mag sorc are great for zerg surfing, I can finish off low health targets pretty easy - catch me alone on one of them, and, my margin for error is way less than on a much tankier or better healing character...

I too have noticed I tend to unnecessarily spam my skills (although about half the time it’s cuz they don’t actually go off bc of the lag or whatever and have no choice but to redo them). But any tips how how to be more conservative. I notice watching my clips I kinda get a panic feeling in a fight and it becomes easy to just spam.

therift · April 2019

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

question first. how do you like to play your sorcerer? you have two options : petsorc and puresorc

petsorc is about to sacrifice two skillslots ( one on first and one on second skillbar ) in order to receive very strong burst heal which can help with your survivability ( using hardened ward only )

puresorc is more like old sorcerer running with 2 shields, stacking them
both these setups requires at least 20k armor in no-CP which you could get by your current monster sets + boundless storm, or 2pcs of mighty chudan

running two resource sets seems like overkill to me. depends on race but you should be able to have good sustain in no-cp with only 1 resource set and 1 damage set

i can advice you two sets - for pure sorc use spell strategist +Bright throat's boast
- for petsorc use necropotence + Bright throat's boast

- getting weakness to elements can also really help you since it is 5,2k penetration on just one skill
- getting Infused destro staff is also good idea
- defensive rune is great skill if you teach to re-cast it when its used. then you can keep enemy always under Hard CC
- Dark deal instead of Dark conversion can help you manage your stamina to be always full - always ready when CC break or roll dodge is needed. you can have full stamina from empty with 3 quick skills which is super good when fighting 1v1 -- but it can be interrupted so be careful with it

in my opinion the two resource sets were needed because I fly through magicka. I’m terrible at sustain. Even with pots and my high Magicka Recovery I still have to spam dark deal a lot to get my magicka back. But I will try out a damage set.

You may be better served by casting a heavy attack while shield is up. I'm not skilled with sorc, but when fighting one, my primary strategy is to pressure your resource pool.

As I mentioned earlier, I think your full rotation is too long. It provides too much window of opportunity for your opponent to recover the initiative and put you on defense.

Consider using Streak for mobility and the stun. For me, the most challenging sorcs to fight are mobile - using Streak to stun and get behind me, which gives the sorc initiative to attack. I have to burn stamina to break free, then turn around or burn more stamina to dodge... which means you have a 1 to 3 second window to lay on a burst, or recover magicka with a heavy attack, or Streak again to a better position.

Most of your opponents will be high resistance stamina builds. Make them chase you. Make them burn stamina by block, dodge, or vigor. Create an opportunity to cc them at low stamina so you can lay on the Curse-Pulse-Wrath skill combo.

Mobility, timely shield, and controlling initiative is the key.

therift · April 2019

One more consideration to address the issue that your full rotation only does enough damage to "take a sliver of their health" such that it seems your opponents just eat all the tremendous awfulness you dish out: Mitigation.

Most builds run heavy armor, have lots of health, and are built to resist normal and critical damage. Example:

Let's say your Crystal Frag has a 20k tool tip. Sounds great, right? Not really.

PvP Battle Spirit cuts damage and shields in half.

Crystal Frag now has a 10k effective damage.

In a CP campaign, CP can reduce Magic damage by (typically) 12%.

Crystal Frag now has a 8.8k effective damage.

With 25k Spell Resistance from armor and health pool, Magic damage is reduced 37%

Crystal Frag now has 5466 effective damage.

This is all passive mitigation. I haven't done anything, and that tool tip has been reduced nearly 75%. If I block, that'll cut the effective damage down to 2733, well within range of being substantially mitigated by defensive sets like 7th Legion or a heal like Vigor. This is why it seems your attack bounces off.

It's important to keep mitigation in mind when opening combat. That's why Spell Penetration is so important. But most of all, it is why your fight strategy should focus on maintaining initiative to put your opponent on defense and keep him there, burning stamina, until he no longer has enough stamina left to open a burst of his own and take initiative.

This requires patience. It also requires you to preserve your magicka pool by being aggressive without burning mag too soon. If you attempt to overcome mitigation with raw power while your opponent's stamina pool is high, he can rely on passive mitigation, block, and dodge to encourage you to burn your resource, or better yet, put you on defense and attack.

The two sure signs that a stamina build is vulnerable are (1) Retreat - it's natural instinct to run away, despite the fact MagSorcs excel at range, and (2) Holding Block - your opponent is trying to buy time or encourage you to burn magicka.

Lay your full burst combo on Retreat; CC with Streak or Rune Cage on Block, then burst.

These are merely observations from opposite the business end of a staff; pro PvP sorcs probably have better advice.

Beardimus · April 2019

Alucardo wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

SameMeteor26 wrote: »

I really don’t understand this games PvP. Literally everyone I run into in cyrodiil not only does way more damage but also take more damage then me. I do my full damage combo on people and they just seem to eat it. It just takes down a sliver of their health. Then they get their buffs up and start attacking me and just melt me. I’m just so confused. I really don’t think it’s a L2P issue cuz I’ve been playing for years. I’m a mag sorc with 3k spell dmg, 20k resistences, 25k health 39k mag, 17k Stam. What am I doing wrong. I’m 470cp also

Edit: I’m running 5 shackle 5 lich 1 pirate skeleton 1 might Chudan.

I have about 1500 crit resis

Combo: LA, curse, rune prison, LA, crushing shock, LA, crystal as curse goes off, lighting as execute if low enough

I play both CP and non CP campaigns

Why the split Monster Helms? Assume you have boundless on your bar?

I've actually seen a few sorcs start doing this with Chudan and skele. After coming across some, I can honestly say it does make them rather tanky, especially with boundless/hurricane on top of that

That's my point, WITH boundless it would make sense but without it slotted (which OP doesn't have) 2pc Chud would give more (and save the need for the skill slot) just an option.

Emma_Overload · April 2019

Your crit resist is WAY to low, that's why your taking too much damage. You're own damage stats are fine. The reason you aren't killing anyone is because Sorc burst is old news, and everyone is built to survive it. You need to do serious pressure these days. I suggest using Daedric Prey and the Tormentor Twilight. Trust me, your enemies will feel some pain 😎

Knootewoot · April 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Your crit resist is WAY to low, that's why your taking too much damage. You're own damage stats are fine. The reason you aren't killing anyone is because Sorc burst is old news, and everyone is built to survive it. You need to do serious pressure these days. I suggest using Daedric Prey and the Tormentor Twilight. Trust me, your enemies will feel some pain 😎

It's confirmed ladies and gentleman. Deadric prey and tormentor twilight OP

#nerfsorc