what am I missing here? (pvp and healing)

Wing · March 2019

now I know my way around pvp pretty well at this point and can tend to faf out what people are doing on the fly pretty well.

but I tend to run near 70% defile on one of my main builds, and im still watching people heal up like I never hit them?

i tend to smack a reverb pretty constantly so its not coming off cooldown, templar purge is easy to watch for (the giant glowing area) and simply re smack, and even if it was something like curse eater (i seriously doubt it) once again i tend to be generous on smacking people in the mouth to keep the defiles up.

yet i feel like its just doing nothing, even people getting piled on (not all troll tanks but in some cases) just walking around like nothings up, i cannot imagine how much they could heal or survive with NO defile on them, let alone in pve content.

so am i missing something here?

Mayrael · March 2019

You mean they recover from execute range or simply their HP's won't go down?

technohic · March 2019

^
And I find it hard to keep defile up as it only lasts 3 or 4 seconds now. You're 1 second in by the time your next attack goes off.

Iskiab · March 2019

Are you talking cyrodiil or BGs? If someone’s cleansed the duration of defile is halved, essentially you get one GCD with major defile up.

Plus don’t forget about vitality. If you have minor and major defile on your target and they have minor and major vitality they’re getting normal healing. Bonus healing received on heavy armour is significant too.

For group play if you’re stam there really is no reason to not be wearing 5 heavy right now.

Mayrael · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Are you talking cyrodiil or BGs? If someone’s cleansed the duration of defile is halved, essentially you get one GCD with major defile up.

Plus don’t forget about vitality. If you have minor and major defile on your target and they have minor and major vitality they’re getting normal healing. Bonus healing received on heavy armour is significant too.

Not to mention major and minor mending, high resistances that can lead to situation where you're not able to pressure them enough (that's why I asked about how does it look like).

Alucardo · March 2019

Isn't CP just amazing. I'm kidding, it's horrible.

Iskiab · March 2019

Yea, magicka needs light for the pen and recovery with how the armour passives are setup. The bonus weapon damage on heavy means stamina can wear it and lose next to no damage output. Add a healer and heavy armour with the bonus healing received, bonus weapon damage, plus mitigation makes players super tanky with high damage.

psychotic13 · March 2019

If they pop there burst heal on the second defile aint active theyll heal up.

Best way to defile imo, warden with corrupting pollen and run thurvokin, AoE major and minor defile its real strong.

Thogard · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Are you talking cyrodiil or BGs? If someone’s cleansed the duration of defile is halved, essentially you get one GCD with major defile up.

Plus don’t forget about vitality. If you have minor and major defile on your target and they have minor and major vitality they’re getting normal healing. Bonus healing received on heavy armour is significant too.

For group play if you’re stam there really is no reason to not be wearing 5 heavy right now.

That’s not how the math on vitality vs defile works

Wing wrote: »

now I know my way around pvp pretty well at this point and can tend to faf out what people are doing on the fly pretty well.

but I tend to run near 70% defile on one of my main builds, and im still watching people heal up like I never hit them?

i tend to smack a reverb pretty constantly so its not coming off cooldown, templar purge is easy to watch for (the giant glowing area) and simply re smack, and even if it was something like curse eater (i seriously doubt it) once again i tend to be generous on smacking people in the mouth to keep the defiles up.

yet i feel like its just doing nothing, even people getting piled on (not all troll tanks but in some cases) just walking around like nothings up, i cannot imagine how much they could heal or survive with NO defile on them, let alone in pve content.

so am i missing something here?

That’s not how the math on defile works. They’re multiplicative, not additive.

Wing · March 2019

CP, I mean like the target stays at full health.

pvp cleanse is obvious and silly expensive, templar cleanse is also an obvious telegraph, curse eater is a bad uptime with no guarantee that it eats the defile.

and yuppers I know how healing vs defile works

healing is first and multiplies up all the bonuses

base, vitality, mending, CP, passives, etc. (so we will say your healing after that is 10k)

then that gets cut in half in cyro (so down to 5k)

then major defile (mine eats 45%, so 2750)

then minor defile (mines around 22% iirc, so 2145)

so all healing is essentially ~25% of tooltip+bonuses (I tell you what though doing the math in this has taught me that minor defile is worthless for the most part)

and people still seem to be able to just soak damage and heal through after that.

Stibbons · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, magicka needs light for the pen and recovery with how the armour passives are setup. The bonus weapon damage on heavy means stamina can wear it and lose next to no damage output. Add a healer and heavy armour with the bonus healing received, bonus weapon damage, plus mitigation makes players super tanky with high damage.

Stamina tanks are catered too much on pvp.

Noctus · March 2019

just wanna put it out there its also possible in no cp just harder to achieve

Wing · March 2019

I really don't want to derail into a heavy armor thread because that's really not my issue here.

but just for the record heavy armor passives are trash. and I imagine regardless of light or medium every is (or SHOULD be) at LEAST a heavy chest piece, if not 2 heavy, 5 light / medium (unless that extra bit of stat from undaunted really is life or death for you for some reason)

the only thing decent from heavy anymore is maybe a set or 2, and if I HAD to run a heavy set I still would try to find it in jewelry so I only had to run at most 2 heavy and could still run 5 of my preferred weight.

Iskiab · March 2019

Wing wrote: »

I really don't want to derail into a heavy armor thread because that's really not my issue here.

but just for the record heavy armor passives are trash. and I imagine regardless of light or medium every is (or SHOULD be) at LEAST a heavy chest piece, if not 2 heavy, 5 light / medium (unless that extra bit of stat from undaunted really is life or death for you for some reason)

the only thing decent from heavy anymore is maybe a set or 2, and if I HAD to run a heavy set I still would try to find it in jewelry so I only had to run at most 2 heavy and could still run 5 of my preferred weight.

Yea, this could derail the thread. Let me just say look at the passives for medium vs heavy, think of a pvp environment where you’re getting attacked a lot, then consider what exactly you’re accomplishing by being medium armour vs heavy. Sustain and weapon damage is built into heavy if you’re being attacked.

Back to the OP - high resistances, good self healing, presto it looks like the person isn’t even taking damage. Has the added bonus of opponents specing more and more into glass canon builds to try and take you out so you can kill them even more easily when you fight.

I see more and more people say they don’t use a defensive set /shakes head.

Figuring out how heavy armour works is 90 percent of what takes people into high MMR.

Btw, major defile 30%, major vitality 30%. Minor defile 15%, minor vitality 8%. It works exactly like that, everything’s multiplicative.

Thogard · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I really don't want to derail into a heavy armor thread because that's really not my issue here.

but just for the record heavy armor passives are trash. and I imagine regardless of light or medium every is (or SHOULD be) at LEAST a heavy chest piece, if not 2 heavy, 5 light / medium (unless that extra bit of stat from undaunted really is life or death for you for some reason)

the only thing decent from heavy anymore is maybe a set or 2, and if I HAD to run a heavy set I still would try to find it in jewelry so I only had to run at most 2 heavy and could still run 5 of my preferred weight.

Yea, this could derail the thread. Let me just say look at the passives for medium vs heavy, think of a pvp environment where you’re getting attacked a lot, then consider what exactly you’re accomplishing by being medium armour vs heavy. Sustain and weapon damage is built into heavy if you’re being attacked.

Back to the OP - high resistances, good self healing, presto it looks like the person isn’t even taking damage. Has the added bonus of opponents specing more and more into glass canon builds to try and take you out so you can kill them even more easily when you fight.

I see more and more people say they don’t use a defensive set /shakes head.

Figuring out how heavy armour works is 90 percent of what takes people into high MMR.

Btw, major defile 30%, major vitality 30%. Minor defile 15%, minor vitality 8%. It works exactly like that, everything’s multiplicative.

Take the number 100. Increase it by 50%. Then decrease that by 50%.

Does that take you back to 100?

BlackMadara · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I really don't want to derail into a heavy armor thread because that's really not my issue here.

but just for the record heavy armor passives are trash. and I imagine regardless of light or medium every is (or SHOULD be) at LEAST a heavy chest piece, if not 2 heavy, 5 light / medium (unless that extra bit of stat from undaunted really is life or death for you for some reason)

the only thing decent from heavy anymore is maybe a set or 2, and if I HAD to run a heavy set I still would try to find it in jewelry so I only had to run at most 2 heavy and could still run 5 of my preferred weight.

Yea, this could derail the thread. Let me just say look at the passives for medium vs heavy, think of a pvp environment where you’re getting attacked a lot, then consider what exactly you’re accomplishing by being medium armour vs heavy. Sustain and weapon damage is built into heavy if you’re being attacked.

Back to the OP - high resistances, good self healing, presto it looks like the person isn’t even taking damage. Has the added bonus of opponents specing more and more into glass canon builds to try and take you out so you can kill them even more easily when you fight.

I see more and more people say they don’t use a defensive set /shakes head.

Figuring out how heavy armour works is 90 percent of what takes people into high MMR.

Btw, major defile 30%, major vitality 30%. Minor defile 15%, minor vitality 8%. It works exactly like that, everything’s multiplicative.

Heavy armor no longer has a weapon/spell damage passive. It gives more resistances, healing, health recovery, stat on damage per 4s, and increased heavy attack resource restore.

In regards to the OP, perhaps other factors are involved. HoTs ticking, potions, crit, block casting, etc. There are multiple means to mitigate damage and allow the heals to have more effectiveness. Some passives and skills grant more healing at low hp, on top of possible names buffs.

Iskiab · March 2019

Thogard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I really don't want to derail into a heavy armor thread because that's really not my issue here.

but just for the record heavy armor passives are trash. and I imagine regardless of light or medium every is (or SHOULD be) at LEAST a heavy chest piece, if not 2 heavy, 5 light / medium (unless that extra bit of stat from undaunted really is life or death for you for some reason)

the only thing decent from heavy anymore is maybe a set or 2, and if I HAD to run a heavy set I still would try to find it in jewelry so I only had to run at most 2 heavy and could still run 5 of my preferred weight.

Yea, this could derail the thread. Let me just say look at the passives for medium vs heavy, think of a pvp environment where you’re getting attacked a lot, then consider what exactly you’re accomplishing by being medium armour vs heavy. Sustain and weapon damage is built into heavy if you’re being attacked.

Back to the OP - high resistances, good self healing, presto it looks like the person isn’t even taking damage. Has the added bonus of opponents specing more and more into glass canon builds to try and take you out so you can kill them even more easily when you fight.

I see more and more people say they don’t use a defensive set /shakes head.

Figuring out how heavy armour works is 90 percent of what takes people into high MMR.

Btw, major defile 30%, major vitality 30%. Minor defile 15%, minor vitality 8%. It works exactly like that, everything’s multiplicative.

Take the number 100. Increase it by 50%. Then decrease that by 50%.

Does that take you back to 100?

Oh damn you’re right.