Kadoin wrote: »

No. If it wouldn't really make a difference or be "OP", then why would you want the change? Something tells me you have a specific build in mind that would obviously exploit it to the max. Also, with Armor of Truth having no cooldown? lol, no.

Kadoin wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Don’t forget that venom arrow is an interrupt, that’s nothing to sneeze at.

The interrupt is strong, but what OP suggests in guaranteeing off balance could be even stronger and tip the balance between the two morphs.

Any change like this needs to look beyond the obvious benefits to the skill.

Guaranteeing off balance is like one of million effects surprise attack does, I think poison injection would well survive something so minor appearing on the other, totally unused and forgotten morph

Except you have to be in melee range AND from sneak/stealth. You can't spam it in someone's face and get the benefits of the skill.

Koolio wrote: »

I’ve been trying to get venom arrow buffed since Dragon Bones interrupt changes. It was already the underused morph of the two and almost never used in pve. You can only really interrupt rezzes now with this morph while the other is extremely strong on both pve and PvP.

I believe having this always proc off balance would be the right fit. You could stun get resources back after a venom arrow. Almost as strong as poison injection dot because of the utilization.

I don’t think this is too strong in pve but I dont do a lot of trials. So maybe someone could point out if it would be too much.

In PvP it wouldn’t do anything crazy compared to poison injection. It would still cost an additional GCD so it wouldn’t be too much

Also kinda lore friendly because getting hit with venom would cause you to be disoriented.

What do you think?

Let's see what's wrong with this suggestion:

(1) Claims that all you can do is interrupt people reviving others in PvP with the skill, this is false; just like crushing shock you can interrupt players on siege, players picking the scroll up, players casting almost any non-ult channel. I use it specifically for this reason.



(2) Suggests bow give resources back on stun? What? With the changes to stamina glyph plus the existence of sets like Marksman that give bow damage and sustain, why would bow need a free skill? What other weapon line has that?

(3) Armor of Truth Set and other sets guarantee that this would be a bad change.

(4) Disorient was removed from the game and skills in general. No skill should disorient in the game anymore. Some sets still disorient and I'm not going to mention what does or how to do it, but the CC system bugs when disorient and stun are both on your player. That means ZOS would implement it as a stun, and how anyone cannot see how that obviously trivializes NB's cloak AND would be massively unbalanced is ridiculous. We'd have a skill that interrupts, always stuns and/or off balance, can be spammed, does increasing damage with weapon damage that isn't hard to stack, and has a DoT? The skill would be overloaded which is exactly what ZOS started addressing a few patches ago. To change this skill in the way described would go against those changes.

(5) What is described is already possible, but with sacrifices. Want off-balance that bad? Shock glyph, but you can't run your disease ones. Want stun? DK, Sorc, Templar, Warden (ugh) have a ranged stun. NB can get it from cloak, and also off-balance reliably from melee range. Venom Arrow also already does both of these things conditionally. With tactician CP skill, off-balance should be up most of the time assuming you are actually dodging since it has no range requirement and always applies to whatever targeted you when you dodge. That's one reason why the roll window needed adjusting (possible to debuff entire zerg with off-balance previously).

(6) Haven't seen anyone call for it's magicka counterpart crushing shock to be buffed for unconditional off-balance, free cast, or any kind off buff. Wonder why that is...

(7) So then who would this benefit? The answer is obvious...it will ultimately be a buff to bow NBs because it will remove the requirement for high damage through cloak, it will make countering them even harder because the skill would have 100% uptime on off-balance making you take more damage for no cost to your enemy, and if the disorient (stun) is added it means the NB doesn't have to worry about cloaking offensively. This won't make the skill compete with Poison Injection, it will make it superior in every single way. Venom Arrow is already superior if your target has high resist or are a sorc with high resists and shields ( ) and can laugh off poison injection's execute damage now, but it needs a buff?

(8) A skill being supposedly over or underused should NEVER be a reason to buff it or change it. ZOS would be wise not to listen to this suggestion if they have learned anything from their previous "balancing" on data.

NuarBlack wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Don’t forget that venom arrow is an interrupt, that’s nothing to sneeze at.

The interrupt is strong, but what OP suggests in guaranteeing off balance could be even stronger and tip the balance between the two morphs.

Any change like this needs to look beyond the obvious benefits to the skill.

Guaranteeing off balance is like one of million effects surprise attack does, I think poison injection would well survive something so minor appearing on the other, totally unused and forgotten morph

Except you have to be in melee range AND from sneak/stealth. You can't spam it in someone's face and get the benefits of the skill.

Koolio wrote: »

I’ve been trying to get venom arrow buffed since Dragon Bones interrupt changes. It was already the underused morph of the two and almost never used in pve. You can only really interrupt rezzes now with this morph while the other is extremely strong on both pve and PvP.

I believe having this always proc off balance would be the right fit. You could stun get resources back after a venom arrow. Almost as strong as poison injection dot because of the utilization.

I don’t think this is too strong in pve but I dont do a lot of trials. So maybe someone could point out if it would be too much.

In PvP it wouldn’t do anything crazy compared to poison injection. It would still cost an additional GCD so it wouldn’t be too much

Also kinda lore friendly because getting hit with venom would cause you to be disoriented.

What do you think?

Let's see what's wrong with this suggestion:

(1) Claims that all you can do is interrupt people reviving others in PvP with the skill, this is false; just like crushing shock you can interrupt players on siege, players picking the scroll up, players casting almost any non-ult channel. I use it specifically for this reason.

(2) Suggests bow give resources back on stun? What? With the changes to stamina glyph plus the existence of sets like Marksman that give bow damage and sustain, why would bow need a free skill? What other weapon line has that?

(3) Armor of Truth Set and other sets guarantee that this would be a bad change.

(4) Disorient was removed from the game and skills in general. No skill should disorient in the game anymore. Some sets still disorient and I'm not going to mention what does or how to do it, but the CC system bugs when disorient and stun are both on your player. That means ZOS would implement it as a stun, and how anyone cannot see how that obviously trivializes NB's cloak AND would be massively unbalanced is ridiculous. We'd have a skill that interrupts, always stuns and/or off balance, can be spammed, does increasing damage with weapon damage that isn't hard to stack, and has a DoT? The skill would be overloaded which is exactly what ZOS started addressing a few patches ago. To change this skill in the way described would go against those changes.

(5) What is described is already possible, but with sacrifices. Want off-balance that bad? Shock glyph, but you can't run your disease ones. Want stun? DK, Sorc, Templar, Warden (ugh) have a ranged stun. NB can get it from cloak, and also off-balance reliably from melee range. Venom Arrow also already does both of these things conditionally. With tactician CP skill, off-balance should be up most of the time assuming you are actually dodging since it has no range requirement and always applies to whatever targeted you when you dodge. That's one reason why the roll window needed adjusting (possible to debuff entire zerg with off-balance previously).

(6) Haven't seen anyone call for it's magicka counterpart crushing shock to be buffed for unconditional off-balance, free cast, or any kind off buff. Wonder why that is...

(7) So then who would this benefit? The answer is obvious...it will ultimately be a buff to bow NBs because it will remove the requirement for high damage through cloak, it will make countering them even harder because the skill would have 100% uptime on off-balance making you take more damage for no cost to your enemy, and if the disorient (stun) is added it means the NB doesn't have to worry about cloaking offensively. This won't make the skill compete with Poison Injection, it will make it superior in every single way. Venom Arrow is already superior if your target has high resist or are a sorc with high resists and shields ( ) and can laugh off poison injection's execute damage now, but it needs a buff?

(8) A skill being supposedly over or underused should NEVER be a reason to buff it or change it. ZOS would be wise not to listen to this suggestion if they have learned anything from their previous "balancing" on data.

You contradict yourself. You claim up time of off balance is a problem then say you should have it up plenty because of tactician. Now I get tactician takes some CP investment but it does mitigate your point. Also if off balance doesn't already have a CD/player immunity it could be added as bosses I know already can't be permanently set off balance.

Also crushing shock could use a buff. The interrupt is actually more useful in pve than pvp now that so many skills are instant cast or uninterruptable that are used in pvp. Cyro is garbage pvp content, especially the large scale seige side, so big whoop if it interrupts seige use. There is a reason almost no one uses the morph cause it is garbage. Maybe the OP's suggestion isn't the right answer but it definitely needs something.

FYI there is already a skill in the game that sets the target off balance every time it hits and I'm not talking about surprise attack either.