The Real Problem With Crafting & Costs

Mithrazielle · February 2019

IMHO-- There is a fundamental problem with crafting, and the cost of materials .v. the cost of armor. And I'd like to take a moment and bring that to light in a more informative way.

In the game, people get introduced to purchasing armor items for a few hundred, to a few thousand gold pieces from NPC merchents as they progress through the levels. Relying mostly on drops for anything 'exciting' or 'special', and occasionally finding something interesting for sale or as a boss-reward. Final options for CP160 characters is making their own, or buying pieces from someone else who can (in case they don't have resources, skill, motifs (knowledge), or access to the appropriate forges for special sets).

And therein lies the fundamental problem. As a master crafter in virtuallly all the disciplines, I've spent a huge amount of time farming resources, and gold in purchasing items I couldn't farm or find in sufficient quantities-- and nobody is really addressing this imbalance-- and this is why crafters can't ever really sell armor & weapon sets. The cost of making an armor set is prohibitive in terms of both resources, and costs.

Not only must you craft the set, you have to temper it, and you have to enchant it-- and that is really expensive to do.

A typical example of HEAVY Armor- (for a person who was willing to farm resources and tempers for me in exchange for the set, as they didn't know enough traits or the motif in both blacksmithing, jewelry, and enchanting).

Hunding's Rage + Nightmother's Gaze (2 sets, so they could have the benefits of both simultaneously with a bar switch for specifics)- All Legendary level)

RUBEDITE (1,540 ingots for the armor+weapons):
helm: 130
cuirass: 150
pauldrons: 130
gauntlets: 130
girdle: 130
greaves: 140
sabatons: 130

sword: 160
shield: 140

PLATINUM (350 ingots for jewelery):
ring 1: 100
ring 2: 100
necklace: 150

Each one of these requires a trait.
Each one of these requires an enchangment.
Each one of these requires multiple tempers (about 19 materials for tempers per item)

Multiply each of these numbers by 2 for 2 sets.

Now think about the amount of raw ore that had to be processed for that?
Think about the increased amount that had to be done for enough tempers? Or bought outright?
And for enchantments, legendary is 4,500-10K gold, depending on where you buy it, if you haven't refined enough of it.

In the end, this is the primary reason most people at my crafting level aren't making lots of full armor sets for people, because frankly, they cannot actually afford it. They expect to pay 8K in gold for a whole armor set and weapons (and that doesn't even cover the cost of a single lowest-quality temper), when in fact it would cost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of gold for a legendary armor set, weapons, and jewelry for the above set. Most people don't even have the patience to farm the ore required- it takes too long.

Guilds are great- but the cost of materials through guilds, the primary source of where to get most materials and resources, is absurdely and outrageously out of scale with what people in the game can actually afford gold-wise, generally speaking.

Bethesda- you really have to increase the drop rate of tempers coming out of ores, so that the prices fall in line more closely with what people not just expect-- but CAN ACTUALLLY AFFORD for armor sets.

KhajiitFelix · February 2019

tmbrinks · February 2019

Other than Jewelry grains, the others are relatively easy to farm, easy to accumulate enough to complete a full set of gold armor/weapons. That being said, there is absolutely NO need to use gold armor, unless you are doing end game content. And if you are at end game content, you have spent enough time that you do have the gold, or the gold materials, or the means to provide for those sets for you.

Gold weapons are a different story, but I know plenty of players, some who are in the end game community, who are still running purple gear, which is significantly cheaper, without a significant reduction in effectiveness.

You can make 100,000 gold in a couple of hours by questing, stealing, farming materials and selling the materials you get from them... it's not that hard. If that is too much work... I feel that you're playing the wrong game. This is an MMO, not a single player game like Skyrim was.

tmbrinks · February 2019

also...not to do the whole "Back in my day thing" but it used to be that there was only 1 way to get CP160 mats, and that was by buying them with TelVar stones (at 50 telvar a piece) or by deconning drops from gear in IC, where you would get a single piece of material upon decon. It took a long, long, long time to get the drops that you needed. They have made it significantly easier with Wrothgar (which had V16 nodes) and then even more so with the One Tamriel expansion.

Xerikten · February 2019

I don't craft to sell stuff. I craft to outfit my own toons and alts. sometimes I will make stuff for friends and guildies but crafting to sell items is usually not profitable in recent years. mats have always been the way to go across this and other mmos for some time.

redspecter23 · February 2019

I can afford lots of stuff. You may be doing something wrong.

Artanisul · February 2019

Going from somewhere in the teens to 150 for material costs is the crazy part. My one and only crafter went to make a set of armor for an alt that had finally hit 50 and I couldn't believe the cost.
It might be fine for people that have a huge surplus from playing for a long time but to CRAFT a set of alt armor is far too expensive to those I game with.

Taleof2Cities · February 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can make 100,000 gold in a couple of hours by questing, stealing, farming materials and selling the materials you get from them... it's not that hard. If that is too much work... I feel that you're playing the wrong game. This is an MMO, not a single player game like Skyrim was.

redspecter23 wrote: »

I can afford lots of stuff. You may be doing something wrong.

I agree with the two posts above, @Mithrazielle ... which means you’re probably not using your crafter(s) to the fullest potential.

Plus, if anything, prices are too low on a lot of improvement commodities on PC NA ... where Elegant Lining is still hovering around 150g per. That’s a purple improvement item.

There are some easy ways to improve your personal crafting inventory. The most obvious one is to make sure the hireling passives are fully invested on all of your alt characters ... regardless of their crafting skill level.

For other ideas just do a simple search here in the crafting subforums. We’re here to help with whatever questions you have too.

Just a reminder ... this is an MMO. Players aren’t going to get a fully golded 5-piece set (with enchantments) without putting in some gametime. That’s by design.

Mithrazielle · February 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

I can afford lots of stuff. You may be doing something wrong.

I can afford lots of stuff too- that wasn't my point. I have incredible amounts of materials, because I've been farming for years. I craft full gold sets all the time, and sell many gold-level crafting items because I have so many.

This isn't about crafting for myself. It's about being able to craft for others who do not, cannot, or don't wish to craft. The economics of crafting are wrong. Seriously. blackmarket pricing for chromium plate is 100K gold per plate. Should not be that high. Zircon drops much more rarely from refining and it's only 30K gold per plate.

If someone came to you and said I need this 9-trait set of this armor, weapons, and jewelry, and I need this 7-trait set of armor, weapons, and jewelry so I can wear 2 sets simultaneously by mixing/matching pieces so I'm always wearing at least 5 of each, and I want everything to gold level on both-- what would you charge? Because I'm here to tell you, that if you had to purchase the materials on the black market for it, which is 'what the market will bear' presently, you'd have to price it at somewhere around 15-20Million gold, just to make a profit. Nobody's going to pay that.

It's easy to discount your own labor, and costs, and farming time and so forth when you're marking sets for yourself- that's blood equity. Not so much if you're doing it for someone else.

And frankly, if you can't craft for others, it loses it's point after awhile because once you have your 'set' established, why would you change it?

Feric51 · February 2019

I want to point out your hyperbole / exaggeration in the following quote. It's misinformation like this that can scare new players away from crafting when there's really no need to be this dramatic.

Mithrazielle wrote: »

This isn't about crafting for myself. It's about being able to craft for others who do not, cannot, or don't wish to craft. The economics of crafting are wrong. Seriously. blackmarket pricing for chromium plate is 100K gold per plate. Should not be that high. Zircon drops much more rarely from refining and it's only 30K gold per plate.

If someone came to you and said I need this 9-trait set of this armor, weapons, and jewelry, and I need this 7-trait set of armor, weapons, and jewelry so I can wear 2 sets simultaneously by mixing/matching pieces so I'm always wearing at least 5 of each, and I want everything to gold level on both-- what would you charge? Because I'm here to tell you, that if you had to purchase the materials on the black market for it, which is 'what the market will bear' presently, you'd have to price it at somewhere around 15-20Million gold, just to make a profit. Nobody's going to pay that.

So using console pricing (which is typically higher than PC prices) I came up with following calculations if you were required to purchase all the materials from guild traders. I'm honestly not quite sure why you keep referring to it as the "black market" unless you mean from the farming bot accounts, in which case your prices should be considerably less than what I'm about to input.

Anyway... your example of two complete sets, including weapons, armor and jewelry pieces would be broken down to this. *I used one full stack of material per item crafted just to make it easier and the numbers the highest possible.

Weapons Maximum of 8 - (double dual-wield user) which is what I used for my math because it would be the most expensive.

8 stacks of rubedite @ 4.5k/ea = 36k
64 tempering alloy @ 9k/ea + 2k/item for other tempers = 592k
8 legendary glyphs @ 8k/ea = 64k
Trait and style mats costs are inconsequential so they were not considered
Grand total for weapons = 692k

Armor Maximum of 14 (since you didn't mention monster helm/shoulders) - I'll compare heavy with light armor to show the price differences of material vs improvements.

14 stacks of ancestor silk @ 14k/ea = 196k or 14 stacks of rubedite @ 4.5k/ea = 63k
112 dreugh wax @ 5k/ea + 2k/item for other tempers = 576k or 112 tempering alloy @ 9k/ea +2k/item = 1.046M
14 legendary glyphs @ 8k/ea = 112k
Grand total for armor = 884k for light armor or 1.221 Million for heavy armor

Jewelry 4 rings + 2 necklaces

6 stacks of platinum ingots @ 4.5k/ea = 27k
24 chromium @ 100k/ea = 2.4M
18 zircon grains @35k/ea = 630k
12 iridium @ 5k/ea = 60k
6 terne @ 2k/ea = 12k
6 legendary glyphs @ 8k/ea = 48k
6 traits at 30k/ea = 180k (I erred on the side of expense in case they called for a rarer trait)
Grand total for jewelry = 3.357 Million

Based on my "most expensive case" scenario, we find that the total cost to craft would be in the 4.9 - 5.3 Million gold range. I'm not sure what you consider "a profit," but I think your estimate of 15-20 million is a bit much. And, keep in mind, that 5 million number is going off the extreme mind boggling idea you would craft weapons and full armor + jewelry for both sets.

Food for thought.

Edit to add heavy armor costs.

Taleof2Cities · February 2019

Most players that are asking for crafting services aren’t doing end game content ... where gold gear is overkill for their needs.

Not to mention that needing gold gear for end game content is still in debate within these forums.

For the incremental difference from purple to gold ... purple still works fine in the vast majority of the game’s content.

tmbrinks · February 2019

Adding to that. There isn't a single end-game PVE build that uses two crafted sets. If you need gold equipment (in debate for any content, outside of weapons), you can farm it in the end game content that drops the very gear that you need.

As far as jewelry, there is an in-game source for most of the sets of jewelry that you would run, or they are combine with a set that does drop in gold. For example, Jorvuld Guidance set doesn't drop gold jewelry, but you would pair it with Olorime, Mending, IA, which do drop in gold. What this means, is that there is an in-game, no cost way to obtain the gear that you want/need for any build in the game. If you want gold gear, but don't have the means to get it through the in-game content, the crafting system provides you with a way to obtain it at a lower level (which is probably easier) and then upgrade it at a cost of gold and/or materials. You can earn these materials with a little bit of effort, or earn the gold with a little bit of effort.

I honestly don't see the problem with the system as is...

If the absolute meta in the game was to run 2 crafted sets, then you might have a glimmer of an argument with me, but most builds run two dropped sets, and you can always obtain those in either purple and/or gold

tmbrinks · February 2019

Feric51 wrote: »

I want to point out your hyperbole / exaggeration in the following quote. It's misinformation like this that can scare new players away from crafting when there's really no need to be this dramatic.

Mithrazielle wrote: »

This isn't about crafting for myself. It's about being able to craft for others who do not, cannot, or don't wish to craft. The economics of crafting are wrong. Seriously. blackmarket pricing for chromium plate is 100K gold per plate. Should not be that high. Zircon drops much more rarely from refining and it's only 30K gold per plate.

If someone came to you and said I need this 9-trait set of this armor, weapons, and jewelry, and I need this 7-trait set of armor, weapons, and jewelry so I can wear 2 sets simultaneously by mixing/matching pieces so I'm always wearing at least 5 of each, and I want everything to gold level on both-- what would you charge? Because I'm here to tell you, that if you had to purchase the materials on the black market for it, which is 'what the market will bear' presently, you'd have to price it at somewhere around 15-20Million gold, just to make a profit. Nobody's going to pay that.

So using console pricing (which is typically higher than PC prices) I came up with following calculations if you were required to purchase all the materials from guild traders. I'm honestly not quite sure why you keep referring to it as the "black market" unless you mean from the farming bot accounts, in which case your prices should be considerably less than what I'm about to input.

Anyway... your example of two complete sets, including weapons, armor and jewelry pieces would be broken down to this. *I used one full stack of material per item crafted just to make it easier and the numbers the highest possible.

Weapons Maximum of 8 - (double dual-wield user) which is what I used for my math because it would be the most expensive.
8 stacks of rubedite @ 4.5k/ea = 36k

64 tempering alloy @ 9k/ea + 2k/item for other tempers = 592k

8 legendary glyphs @ 8k/ea = 64k

Trait and style mats costs are inconsequential so they were not considered

Grand total for weapons = 692k

Armor Maximum of 14 (since you didn't mention monster helm/shoulders) - I'll compare heavy with light armor to show the price differences of material vs improvements.
14 stacks of ancestor silk @ 14k/ea = 196k or 14 stacks of rubedite @ 4.5k/ea = 63k

112 dreugh wax @ 5k/ea + 2k/item for other tempers = 576k or 112 tempering alloy @ 9k/ea +2k/item = 1.046M

14 legendary glyphs @ 8k/ea = 112k

Grand total for armor = 884k for light armor or 1.221 Million for heavy armor

Jewelry 4 rings + 2 necklaces
6 stacks of platinum ingots @ 4.5k/ea = 27k

24 chromium @ 100k/ea = 2.4M

18 zircon grains @35k/ea = 630k

12 iridium @ 5k/ea = 60k

6 terne @ 2k/ea = 12k

6 legendary glyphs @ 8k/ea = 48k

6 traits at 30k/ea = 180k (I erred on the side of expense in case they called for a rarer trait)

Grand total for jewelry = 3.357 Million

Based on my "most expensive case" scenario, we find that the total cost to craft would be in the 4.9 - 5.3 Million gold range. I'm not sure what you consider "a profit," but I think your estimate of 15-20 million is a bit much. And, keep in mind, that 5 million number is going off the extreme mind boggling idea you would craft weapons and full armor + jewelry for both sets.

Food for thought.

Edit to add heavy armor costs.

Oof at those console prices. Reduce that by at least half for PC. So 15-20 million is an enormous exaggeration.

FlopsyPrince · February 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can make 100,000 gold in a couple of hours by questing, stealing, farming materials and selling the materials you get from them... it's not that hard. If that is too much work... I feel that you're playing the wrong game. This is an MMO, not a single player game like Skyrim was.

How should I be doing that? Should I be selling stacks of the mats I have piled up? Something else?

I am making enough money to survive, but it seems to go as quick as it comes now, since I am still filling out bag space, for example, for my 6 characters. I have maxed one and my banker, but I have a ways to go on the others.

How many mats is "enough" that I should consider trying to sell them?

I am on the PS4 if that matters.

redspecter23 · February 2019

Mithrazielle wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I can afford lots of stuff. You may be doing something wrong.

I can afford lots of stuff too- that wasn't my point. I have incredible amounts of materials, because I've been farming for years. I craft full gold sets all the time, and sell many gold-level crafting items because I have so many.

This isn't about crafting for myself. It's about being able to craft for others who do not, cannot, or don't wish to craft. The economics of crafting are wrong. Seriously. blackmarket pricing for chromium plate is 100K gold per plate. Should not be that high. Zircon drops much more rarely from refining and it's only 30K gold per plate.

If someone came to you and said I need this 9-trait set of this armor, weapons, and jewelry, and I need this 7-trait set of armor, weapons, and jewelry so I can wear 2 sets simultaneously by mixing/matching pieces so I'm always wearing at least 5 of each, and I want everything to gold level on both-- what would you charge? Because I'm here to tell you, that if you had to purchase the materials on the black market for it, which is 'what the market will bear' presently, you'd have to price it at somewhere around 15-20Million gold, just to make a profit. Nobody's going to pay that.

It's easy to discount your own labor, and costs, and farming time and so forth when you're marking sets for yourself- that's blood equity. Not so much if you're doing it for someone else.

And frankly, if you can't craft for others, it loses it's point after awhile because once you have your 'set' established, why would you change it?

I think we can both agree that crafting for others is not worth it at all. Leaving your costing aside for a moment, the main reason I don't craft for other people isn't the gold cost, but the time investment. I would have to mail back and forth (repeatedly is some cases) to find out exactly what the person wants. Even once I know the exact details, I have to go to crafting stations and make the items, paying close attention that I'm doing them exactly as instructed. Even one tiny mistake would likely wipe away any potential profit I would be getting.

I gave up on crafting for profit quite some time ago for these reasons.

The reason it's not profitable is that there is very little room for markup. There are plenty of people out there who will craft for free or for tips if mats are provided. That's hard to compete with if you're looking at making gold off of transactions on a regular basis. However, I don't blame the extreme price of materials in this case. There are just so many crafters out there. Many can either do it themselves or have a friend or guildmate do it at low or no cost. The massive number of different combinations and the limit of 30 items per guild store keep you from using that as a reliable source for selling. You're better off just selling your materials. It's a faster easier sale and more consistent and that's where the money is as far as crafting is concerned. Sell your materials so the other crafters can do their thing.

tmbrinks · February 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can make 100,000 gold in a couple of hours by questing, stealing, farming materials and selling the materials you get from them... it's not that hard. If that is too much work... I feel that you're playing the wrong game. This is an MMO, not a single player game like Skyrim was.

How should I be doing that? Should I be selling stacks of the mats I have piled up? Something else?

I am making enough money to survive, but it seems to go as quick as it comes now, since I am still filling out bag space, for example, for my 6 characters. I have maxed one and my banker, but I have a ways to go on the others.

How many mats is "enough" that I should consider trying to sell them?

I am on the PS4 if that matters.

At the prices that people mention that are on console, a few hours of running around Bleakrock collecting materials should do it. The East side of the map is literally bursting with materials. Keep what you need, sell the extras. It's how I built up my collection of mats and gold initially. I don't do it much anymore, I prefer to buy them, as I have the gold now to do so, but I had to work to get to that point.

idk · February 2019

Mithrazielle wrote: »

IMHO-- There is a fundamental problem with crafting, and the cost of materials .v. the cost of armor. And I'd like to take a moment and bring that to light in a more informative way.

In the game, people get introduced to purchasing armor items for a few hundred, to a few thousand gold pieces from NPC merchents as they progress through the levels. Relying mostly on drops for anything 'exciting' or 'special', and occasionally finding something interesting for sale or as a boss-reward. Final options for CP160 characters is making their own, or buying pieces from someone else who can (in case they don't have resources, skill, motifs (knowledge), or access to the appropriate forges for special sets).

In this statement of what OP thinks is a problem with crafting they ignore that gear drops as well and most of that gear can be obtained via content that is very easy to clear.

As for the rest it really just seems that things are just to much work for OP and while I feel for them it really is just to bad. It has worked well for most for almost 5 years now so it is clear there is no real problem. Just a personal or manufactured problem.

And I am speaking as someone who started the game when no one could craft everything that was in the game at the time and no one had a stockpile of drop gear at any level. Everyone had to work to get geared out.

Mithrazielle · March 2019

idk wrote: »

Mithrazielle wrote: »

IMHO-- There is a fundamental problem with crafting, and the cost of materials .v. the cost of armor. And I'd like to take a moment and bring that to light in a more informative way.

In the game, people get introduced to purchasing armor items for a few hundred, to a few thousand gold pieces from NPC merchents as they progress through the levels. Relying mostly on drops for anything 'exciting' or 'special', and occasionally finding something interesting for sale or as a boss-reward. Final options for CP160 characters is making their own, or buying pieces from someone else who can (in case they don't have resources, skill, motifs (knowledge), or access to the appropriate forges for special sets).

In this statement of what OP thinks is a problem with crafting they ignore that gear drops as well and most of that gear can be obtained via content that is very easy to clear.

As for the rest it really just seems that things are just to much work for OP and while I feel for them it really is just to bad. It has worked well for most for almost 5 years now so it is clear there is no real problem. Just a personal or manufactured problem.

And I am speaking as someone who started the game when no one could craft everything that was in the game at the time and no one had a stockpile of drop gear at any level. Everyone had to work to get geared out.

You would be wrong. It's not the amount of work, but rather the time. The most expensive aspect is refining to get tempers and plating- it is the costs of the tempers and plating that drive the cost of making armor & weapon sets for others in the game to such ridiculous prices.

How can you justify 100K for a single chromium plate, when ESO only prices the worth of a plate to be < 20 gold. Just for 3 pieces of jewelry at Legendary you can have 2.4M in gold expense if you buy it from guild traders, and I've seen it going for even more. And zircon plating is at about 30K per... that is ridiculous.

JKorr · March 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You can make 100,000 gold in a couple of hours by questing, stealing, farming materials and selling the materials you get from them... it's not that hard. If that is too much work... I feel that you're playing the wrong game. This is an MMO, not a single player game like Skyrim was.

How should I be doing that? Should I be selling stacks of the mats I have piled up? Something else?

I am making enough money to survive, but it seems to go as quick as it comes now, since I am still filling out bag space, for example, for my 6 characters. I have maxed one and my banker, but I have a ways to go on the others.

How many mats is "enough" that I should consider trying to sell them?

I am on the PS4 if that matters.

One way to tell if you have "enough"... Do you have enough mats to make items you want or need for yourself? If you do, then anything other than those mats should be considered "extra", and can be sold.

I keep enough purple and gold tempers on hand to make weapons or gear that I want. The "extra" I sell. For the purple tempers I sell in lots of 4; the amount you need to 100% improve an item. For gold tempers I'll put out a lot of 8; and a couple of lots at 4, again easy for someone who needs to improve an item. I don't do furniture crafting usually, so I sell the mundane runes, alchemical whatsis and other furnishing mats I find. I do some master writs, and buy gilding wax that I'll then sell. I don't plan on improving jewelry for myself past purple, so the tempers/grains I accumulate I sell. I don't gouge on the prices either. The other day, selling the mats I don't need, or use, over the course of two days I ended up with 167K.

redspecter23 · March 2019

Mithrazielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mithrazielle wrote: »

IMHO-- There is a fundamental problem with crafting, and the cost of materials .v. the cost of armor. And I'd like to take a moment and bring that to light in a more informative way.

In the game, people get introduced to purchasing armor items for a few hundred, to a few thousand gold pieces from NPC merchents as they progress through the levels. Relying mostly on drops for anything 'exciting' or 'special', and occasionally finding something interesting for sale or as a boss-reward. Final options for CP160 characters is making their own, or buying pieces from someone else who can (in case they don't have resources, skill, motifs (knowledge), or access to the appropriate forges for special sets).

In this statement of what OP thinks is a problem with crafting they ignore that gear drops as well and most of that gear can be obtained via content that is very easy to clear.

As for the rest it really just seems that things are just to much work for OP and while I feel for them it really is just to bad. It has worked well for most for almost 5 years now so it is clear there is no real problem. Just a personal or manufactured problem.

And I am speaking as someone who started the game when no one could craft everything that was in the game at the time and no one had a stockpile of drop gear at any level. Everyone had to work to get geared out.

You would be wrong. It's not the amount of work, but rather the time. The most expensive aspect is refining to get tempers and plating- it is the costs of the tempers and plating that drive the cost of making armor & weapon sets for others in the game to such ridiculous prices.

How can you justify 100K for a single chromium plate, when ESO only prices the worth of a plate to be < 20 gold. Just for 3 pieces of jewelry at Legendary you can have 2.4M in gold expense if you buy it from guild traders, and I've seen it going for even more. And zircon plating is at about 30K per... that is ridiculous.

What you describe is not a problem with crafting in general. It's a problem with jewelry crafting specifically and that has been covered repeatedly. ZOS either doesn't care or it's not a high enough priority. In the meantime, we can comfortably craft any other gear to purple and with some investment gold. Jewelry crafting is 10 times worse for reasons most people can't comprehend but that all of ZOS understands yet refuses to communicate to us. We're all mostly baffled by it.

Girl_Number8 · March 2019

Jewelry needs some reworking, Cx. The others are not that bad but I can see your points. If crafting for your guild(s) write in your notes 'Must Have All Mats' decide your tip price *hint* higher for strangers, people do pay. I set days for my master crafters in our guilds twice a week so when someone wants something done it is prearranged with no surprises.

Nave_Horsespitoon · March 2019

I believe you have hit the nail on the head! The economics in the game are totally out of whack. Crafting is more of a side game that you do for the h e double hockey sticks of it! LOL

AndyMac · March 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

Adding to that. There isn't a single end-game PVE build that uses two crafted sets. If you need gold equipment (in debate for any content, outside of weapons), you can farm it in the end game content that drops the very gear that you need.

As far as jewelry, there is an in-game source for most of the sets of jewelry that you would run, or they are combine with a set that does drop in gold. For example, Jorvuld Guidance set doesn't drop gold jewelry, but you would pair it with Olorime, Mending, IA, which do drop in gold. What this means, is that there is an in-game, no cost way to obtain the gear that you want/need for any build in the game - most builds run two dropped sets, and you can always obtain those in either purple and/or gold

Agree - pretty much all decent sets drop in purple if not gold - so those are free apart from the effort.

Furthermore, if a player is able to craft and gold out two sets, they’d have to be doing crafting writs - unless they like doing things horribly wrong. Writs give mats and tempers plus surveys very regularly. These give serious amounts of raw mats - crux even - and then tempers and trait stones when refined . JC is far slower oc- because it’s broken - but I got there in end.

Consequently, I can craft and gold out multiple sets whenever and it just cost me time. Yeah - other players might have to buy some tempers to make up the difference- but I doubt many serious crafters go to the market for mats much.

Asha_11_ESO · March 2019

I think there's something more wrong with new players thinking they need to be fully kitted out in legendary bis gear the moment they hit 50, for only 8k.

A big part of the game is actually spending time to work on crafting, or do some gathering, or earn some gold. It takes a bit longer to do that, if it's your first character.

In regards to JC, many players just assume it ought to be as accessible as all the other crafts. It's not that hard to understand that legendary JC pieces are mean't to be hard to obtain. People just don't want to accept that they can't have it all, now.

FlopsyPrince · March 2019

Asha_11_ESO wrote: »

I think there's something more wrong with new players thinking they need to be fully kitted out in legendary bis gear the moment they hit 50, for only 8k.

That is hogwash. How can people keep repeating such foolishness?

Purple rings are out of reach for me, even though I could have purple everything else. Don't even get into gold.

It is wacked big time.

tmbrinks · March 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Asha_11_ESO wrote: »

I think there's something more wrong with new players thinking they need to be fully kitted out in legendary bis gear the moment they hit 50, for only 8k.

That is hogwash. How can people keep repeating such foolishness?

Purple rings are out of reach for me, even though I could have purple everything else. Don't even get into gold.

It is wacked big time.

Because it's true. Once again, many believe that. Just because it doesn't fit in your worldview doesn't mean it's wrong.

Purple rings are not out of your "reach". They drop quite literally EVERYWHERE. Vet Dungeons, Overland Chests, Dolmens, Trials, etc... There is no shortage of purple rings out there.

You have another thread where you just talked about getting all the traits researched for alchemy, I'm going to assume that you're a beginning crafter then in that case. Why do you feel entitled to having the best in class in everything when you're just starting out? Do you go into your job and expect to be the paid like the CEO on your first day.

So, one of the 7 crafting professions is more difficult than the others... it also happens to be the newest one, and not part of base game.

FlopsyPrince · March 2019

I can't craft a single purple ring. They may drop at times, but not enough for me to craft them, especially for my alts. Thus they are "not available", at least in a significant manner.

tmbrinks · March 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I can't craft a single purple ring. They may drop at times, but not enough for me to craft them, especially for my alts. Thus they are "not available", at least in a significant manner.

So, because you won't (or can't) do the content that drops the gear. It should be nerfed into the ground? Got it.

FlopsyPrince · March 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I can't craft a single purple ring. They may drop at times, but not enough for me to craft them, especially for my alts. Thus they are "not available", at least in a significant manner.

So, because you won't (or can't) do the content that drops the gear. It should be nerfed into the ground? Got it.

Give it a rest! You are definitely smarter than this. I am talking about CRAFTED jewelry, not a specific variety that is dropped in a specific area. I have no problem with having to farm Rivenspire for my Pet Sorc stuff, for example. But I would definitely complain if I could only get purple or better pants by running Trials.

idk · March 2019

double post

idk · March 2019

Mithrazielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mithrazielle wrote: »

IMHO-- There is a fundamental problem with crafting, and the cost of materials .v. the cost of armor. And I'd like to take a moment and bring that to light in a more informative way.

In the game, people get introduced to purchasing armor items for a few hundred, to a few thousand gold pieces from NPC merchents as they progress through the levels. Relying mostly on drops for anything 'exciting' or 'special', and occasionally finding something interesting for sale or as a boss-reward. Final options for CP160 characters is making their own, or buying pieces from someone else who can (in case they don't have resources, skill, motifs (knowledge), or access to the appropriate forges for special sets).

In this statement of what OP thinks is a problem with crafting they ignore that gear drops as well and most of that gear can be obtained via content that is very easy to clear.

As for the rest it really just seems that things are just to much work for OP and while I feel for them it really is just to bad. It has worked well for most for almost 5 years now so it is clear there is no real problem. Just a personal or manufactured problem.

And I am speaking as someone who started the game when no one could craft everything that was in the game at the time and no one had a stockpile of drop gear at any level. Everyone had to work to get geared out.

You would be wrong. It's not the amount of work, but rather the time. The most expensive aspect is refining to get tempers and plating- it is the costs of the tempers and plating that drive the cost of making armor & weapon sets for others in the game to such ridiculous prices.

How can you justify 100K for a single chromium plate, when ESO only prices the worth of a plate to be < 20 gold. Just for 3 pieces of jewelry at Legendary you can have 2.4M in gold expense if you buy it from guild traders, and I've seen it going for even more. And zircon plating is at about 30K per... that is ridiculous.

Cost of Tempers has actually dropped significantly over the years. It is a result of them being much more plentiful. Further, all armor and weapon upgrade materials below gold are fairly cheap and gold is far from required for armor as it offers such a small upgrade to stats. Only weapons see a big bump from the base WD/SD when upgrading to gold.

So being the costs is for weapon and armor upgrade matts have been coming down in price over the years, and more plentiful it seems I am not wrong.

Further, Zos specifically stated they wanted the upgrading of jewelry to be much rarer than the rest of what we can upgrade/craft. In other words they specifically intended for it to be more costly in either gold or time. It is intentional by design.

They wanted it this way and if you had paid attention to them over the years you might actually get an idea why. They stated awhile back a concern they had about adding jewelry crafting and that had to do concerns of how jewelry crafting would affect power in the game.