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Please explain shields in Cyrodiil
Lughlongarm
✭✭✭✭✭
Hi,
I have been playing around with ESO Build Editor and noticed something strange.
I always thought that the change to Annulment and Conjured Ward(Damage shield strength capped at 40% of your Max Health) is not really playing a role in Cyrodiil as you are getting extra 5k health and shields power is being reduced by 50%.
So I always thought it will work something lie that, game will check you max possible shield size based on magicka and divide by 2(battle spirit), if the size of the shield is smaller than 40% of your max health then OK, if not reduce to 40% of max health.
How it actually works(editor suggests), game is checking max possible shield size based on magicka and max health and divide by 2(battle spirit).
Why its strange:
1)after a certain point, max health is more beneficial to shields than max magicka, even if the shield is not actually 40% of your max health in Cyrodiil.
2)Harness magicka and dumpen magic will have almost the same shield size in most cases. The only time dumpen magic will be noticeably bigger, is if you can stack both tons of health and magicka in your build(very hard to reach the common 30% difference between the 2 shields, the sweet spot I found is around 50k magicka, 30k health, around 25% shield difference ).
Another thing, healing ward is not capped by max HP, right?(not mentioned in the skill tool-tip). So if the tool-tip is around 3k for base it can reach up to 12k? Any one ever made a chart that tracks how low hp you need to have in order to get a bigger shield compared to skills like dumpen magic/Hardened Ward?
Thank you.
I have been playing around with ESO Build Editor and noticed something strange.
I always thought that the change to Annulment and Conjured Ward(Damage shield strength capped at 40% of your Max Health) is not really playing a role in Cyrodiil as you are getting extra 5k health and shields power is being reduced by 50%.
So I always thought it will work something lie that, game will check you max possible shield size based on magicka and divide by 2(battle spirit), if the size of the shield is smaller than 40% of your max health then OK, if not reduce to 40% of max health.
How it actually works(editor suggests), game is checking max possible shield size based on magicka and max health and divide by 2(battle spirit).
Why its strange:
1)after a certain point, max health is more beneficial to shields than max magicka, even if the shield is not actually 40% of your max health in Cyrodiil.
2)Harness magicka and dumpen magic will have almost the same shield size in most cases. The only time dumpen magic will be noticeably bigger, is if you can stack both tons of health and magicka in your build(very hard to reach the common 30% difference between the 2 shields, the sweet spot I found is around 50k magicka, 30k health, around 25% shield difference ).
Another thing, healing ward is not capped by max HP, right?(not mentioned in the skill tool-tip). So if the tool-tip is around 3k for base it can reach up to 12k? Any one ever made a chart that tracks how low hp you need to have in order to get a bigger shield compared to skills like dumpen magic/Hardened Ward?
Thank you.
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Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭not an expert on shields, but my understanding of the "shields cap based on your max health" is to stop players from being rediculously squishy but also rediculously tanky from spec'ing into one stat
don't have much else to add i'm afraid, someone who does a lot more research than me will no doubt give a better responseskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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BlackMadara✭✭✭✭Build editor does not show the correct shield value iirc. For pvp, the health cap is applied after the battle spirit 50% reduction. You will have to calc shield strength yourself.1
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Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pve:
Lets say you have 20k health and possible size of your shield ( you have large pool of magicka) is 30k in pve before 40% cap. In pve your total stats are 20k health + 8k shield
In pvp
Your max health is 25k(+5k battle spirit) and your possible shields are 30k before 40% cap and battle spirit. In pvp, your max health is 25k + 8-10k shield ( i dont know if 5k health from battle spirit raise cap of shield)
Is it because your possible shield strength is 30k. -50% for battle spirit, so its 15k but still 15k is above 8-10k cap (40%)
So in pvp its about ballancing your maximum health and Magicka to that point increasing one or another decreases your shield strength
I have on my Argonian sorcerer 23 400 health and 39042 magicka. My shields are 10900. If i raise my health (i have to take it from magicka) = shield decreased. If i raise my magicka (i have to take it from health) = shield decreased.0 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Pve:
Lets say you have 20k health and possible size of your shield ( you have large pool of magicka) is 30k in pve before 40% cap. In pve your total stats are 20k health + 8k shield
In pvp
Your max health is 25k(+5k battle spirit) and your possible shields are 30k before 40% cap and battle spirit. In pvp, your max health is 25k + 8-10k shield ( i dont know if 5k health from battle spirit raise cap of shield)
Is it because your possible shield strength is 30k. -50% for battle spirit, so its 15k but still 15k is above 8-10k cap (40%)
So in pvp its about ballancing your maximum health and Magicka to that point increasing one or another decreases your shield strength
I have on my Argonian sorcerer 23 400 health and 39042 magicka. My shields are 10900. If i raise my health (i have to take it from magicka) = shield decreased. If i raise my magicka (i have to take it from health) = shield decreased.
Thanx for info m8, that is very helpful. I get that the 10,900 tooltip is for your sorc big shield, right? You also have points in bastion?0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Pve:
Lets say you have 20k health and possible size of your shield ( you have large pool of magicka) is 30k in pve before 40% cap. In pve your total stats are 20k health + 8k shield
In pvp
Your max health is 25k(+5k battle spirit) and your possible shields are 30k before 40% cap and battle spirit. In pvp, your max health is 25k + 8-10k shield ( i dont know if 5k health from battle spirit raise cap of shield)
Is it because your possible shield strength is 30k. -50% for battle spirit, so its 15k but still 15k is above 8-10k cap (40%)
So in pvp its about ballancing your maximum health and Magicka to that point increasing one or another decreases your shield strength
I have on my Argonian sorcerer 23 400 health and 39042 magicka. My shields are 10900. If i raise my health (i have to take it from magicka) = shield decreased. If i raise my magicka (i have to take it from health) = shield decreased.
Thanx for info m8, that is very helpful. I get that the 10,900 tooltip is for your sorc big shield, right? You also have points in bastion?
Sorry, i forgot to say its my nonCP pvp and hardened ward..
In CP pvp my health was around 29k and shield 14,5 -hardened ward-with 20-30 points in bastion but i dont know exact numbers because i was playing (cp pvp)this year ( after racial change) Only day or soEdited by Anyron on March 25, 2019 9:15PM0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlackMadara wrote: »Build editor does not show the correct shield value iirc. For pvp, the health cap is applied after the battle spirit 50% reduction. You will have to calc shield strength yourself.
This. Build Editor's shield values are off during their own thing. Theyre incorrect.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭not an expert on shields, but my understanding of the "shields cap based on your max health" is to stop players from being rediculously squishy but also rediculously tanky from spec'ing into one stat
don't have much else to add i'm afraid, someone who does a lot more research than me will no doubt give a better response
It was introduced b/c in PvE shields were far too strong and allowed players to not pay too much attention to boss mechanics. So ZOS gave them a cap. For most builds the cap had no significant impact on PvP, except for the Bastion passive becoming pretty much useless. Though with the recent changes to CP and the increase in HP some builds might find it advantageous to put some points into bastion again. Though reworking Bastion to be the opposite of Shattering Blows would be necessary from a balance point of view.1 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭not an expert on shields, but my understanding of the "shields cap based on your max health" is to stop players from being rediculously squishy but also rediculously tanky from spec'ing into one stat
don't have much else to add i'm afraid, someone who does a lot more research than me will no doubt give a better response
It was introduced b/c in PvE shields were far too strong and allowed players to not pay too much attention to boss mechanics. So ZOS gave them a cap. For most builds the cap had no significant impact on PvP, except for the Bastion passive becoming pretty much useless. Though with the recent changes to CP and the increase in HP some builds might find it advantageous to put some points into bastion again. Though reworking Bastion to be the opposite of Shattering Blows would be necessary from a balance point of view.
If sorc rely purely on shields you need shieldstacking ( annulment + conjured ward) with at least 20k armor and spell resist in nonCP. For cp more is better ( with mighty chudan it isnt hard)
Another thing what now becoming meta is to sacrifice 2 slots for twilight matriarch or clanfear for heals while using only one shield. This build is about, when situation is bad, to spamming heals+ward+streak so you can get out of combat and survive more
Both these playstyles are ok if played correctly. Though even with this build, stamblade can destroy you with few skills in few seconds.
But single-shield nonpet sorc isnt possible to play with todayEdited by Anyron on March 25, 2019 10:16PM1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Pve:
Lets say you have 20k health and possible size of your shield ( you have large pool of magicka) is 30k in pve before 40% cap. In pve your total stats are 20k health + 8k shield
In pvp
Your max health is 25k(+5k battle spirit) and your possible shields are 30k before 40% cap and battle spirit. In pvp, your max health is 25k + 8-10k shield ( i dont know if 5k health from battle spirit raise cap of shield)
Is it because your possible shield strength is 30k. -50% for battle spirit, so its 15k but still 15k is above 8-10k cap (40%)
So in pvp its about ballancing your maximum health and Magicka to that point increasing one or another decreases your shield strength
I have on my Argonian sorcerer 23 400 health and 39042 magicka. My shields are 10900. If i raise my health (i have to take it from magicka) = shield decreased. If i raise my magicka (i have to take it from health) = shield decreased.
Thanx for info m8, that is very helpful. I get that the 10,900 tooltip is for your sorc big shield, right? You also have points in bastion?
Sorry, i forgot to say its my nonCP pvp and hardened ward..
In CP pvp my health was around 29k and shield 14,5 -hardened ward-with 20-30 points in bastion but i dont know exact numbers because i was playing (cp pvp)this year ( after racial change) Only day or so
tx0