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Shieldbreaker + wings — being proc'd by your OWN reflected light attacks
TheYKcid
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If a DK equips the Shieldbreaker set & uses wings, light attacking them not only reflects your attack back at you... it also procs their Shieldbreaker on you.
So now basically:
I'm not even going to delve into the issue of why Oblivion damage still exists in its current state—whatever your stance on the matter, blatantly exploitable spaghetti code like this needs to be patched ASAP.
Edited by TheYKcid on March 25, 2019 2:43PM So now basically:
- Can't burst, because wings are up
- Can't shield-up and erode wings with LAs, because Shieldbreaker procs will f*** you
- Can't forgo the shield and use LAs, because reflected LAs and the DK's own damage will f*** you
I'm not even going to delve into the issue of why Oblivion damage still exists in its current state—whatever your stance on the matter, blatantly exploitable spaghetti code like this needs to be patched ASAP.
PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
13
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SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭seems to work like it should IMO
the LA is not longer casted by you, it comes from the DK, and if he has a LA proccing set, well thats gona proc then.
It should also proc Zaan, or Sirorias Boon...but never tested it tbh.
if it deosnt prov zaan or siroria, then it is bugged with Shieldbreaker set.
If it does proc zaan and siroria then definetly working like it should
PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer3 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »seems to work like it should IMO
the LA is not longer casted by you, it comes from the DK, and if he has a LA proccing set, well thats gona proc then.
It should also proc Zaan, or Sirorias Boon...but never tested it tbh.
if it deosnt prov zaan or siroria, then it is bugged with Shieldbreaker set.
If it does proc zaan and siroria then definetly working like it should
I'd posit that it doesn't even matter if it's intended function. For precedent, take the example of the siege/procsets interaction—siege damage was always categorised as player-originating and thus procced sets such as Sload's etc., but this was deliberately patched-out (in the Wolfhunter update) as it was deemed far too imbalanced.
In this case, a mechanical interaction that comprehensively removes all counterplay during a fight scenario should quite inarguably be considered imbalanced and adjusted accordingly.Edited by TheYKcid on March 25, 2019 2:42PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden3 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »seems to work like it should IMO
the LA is not longer casted by you, it comes from the DK, and if he has a LA proccing set, well thats gona proc then.
It should also proc Zaan, or Sirorias Boon...but never tested it tbh.
if it deosnt prov zaan or siroria, then it is bugged with Shieldbreaker set.
If it does proc zaan and siroria then definetly working like it should
Shieldbreaker shouldnt exist any more, to be blunt. After the murkmire shield changes, there is zero reason for such an unbelievably broken set to exist.9 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Interesting. Does it work if they wear any set that procs by initiating light attacks, or is it jut Shield Breaker? I can't really think of any off the top of my head at the moment, but let's say for example, Elegant. If you reflect a light attack will it come back 20% stronger?0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've confirmed this as well and feel that it should be changed. Wings needs a total overhaul, not least because of all the spaghetti code skill interactions and bugs this skill causes. Instead of a pure reflect, it needs to be converted to a proc'd projectile exactly like Warden's Crystallized Slab to prevent these bug shenanigans.
BONUS BUG 1: If I equip Shield Breaker and light attack a Dk's Wings, nothing happens. It should proc against the Dk since Wings is a type of damage shield IMO.
BONUS BUG 2: Ele/Crushing Weapon ranged light attacks completely disappear when hitting wings.2 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
EU PC9 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Interesting. Does it work if they wear any set that procs by initiating light attacks, or is it jut Shield Breaker? I can't really think of any off the top of my head at the moment, but let's say for example, Elegant. If you reflect a light attack will it come back 20% stronger?
I really can't say—the behaviour of wings with regard to ownership of the reflected projectile is very inconsistent. A buddy of mine tested a few patches back and found that under certain conditions, a reflected LA could proc the Zerker glyph from the attacker's weapon—the opposite of the scenario in the OP.
Frankly I'm not willing to go through all the trouble of finding a willing DK test partner and ALSO convincing them to put a set of Elegant together. The onus is on ZOS at this point.Edited by TheYKcid on March 25, 2019 2:50PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
Found the one-class DK main with <20 hours clocked in PvP (and possibly the forums too)PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden4 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
Found the one-class DK main with <20 hours clocked in PvP (and possibly the forums too)
But what about my other 9 characters?
EU PC1 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
Found the one-class DK main with <20 hours clocked in PvP (and possibly the forums too)
But what about my other 9 characters?
They, for all intents and purposes, might as well not exist if you still struggle to sustain a 3.5k mag skill (prior to reductions) once every 6 GCDs.PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden3 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
Found the one-class DK main with <20 hours clocked in PvP (and possibly the forums too)
But what about my other 9 characters?
They, for all intents and purposes, might as well not exist if you still struggle to sustain a 3.5k mag skill (prior to reductions) once every 6 GCDs.
Didn't know that the sustain on my MagDK was in direct correlation with my other characters existence Thanks for the heads-up! EU PC2 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've confirmed this as well and feel that it should be changed. Wings needs a total overhaul, not least because of all the spaghetti code skill interactions and bugs this skill causes. Instead of a pure reflect, it needs to be converted to a proc'd projectile exactly like Warden's Crystallized Slab to prevent these bug shenanigans.
BONUS BUG 1: If I equip Shield Breaker and light attack a Dk's Wings, nothing happens. It should proc against the Dk since Wings is a type of damage shield IMO.
BONUS BUG 2: Ele/Crushing Weapon ranged light attacks completely disappear when hitting wings.
ele weapon does only connect if the LA connects, which doesnt happen, the LA is absorbed into the code, and a new LA gets fired back at you
since you never landed the LA, the eleweapon cannot connect
working as intended I think.
shieldbreaker and other sets stuff proccing from a reflected LA can ofc be discussed, but Im not that much of a pvper to say its balanced or not...I can jsut say that other sets are procces aswell, thes its only consistently working as intended.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »I've confirmed this as well and feel that it should be changed. Wings needs a total overhaul, not least because of all the spaghetti code skill interactions and bugs this skill causes. Instead of a pure reflect, it needs to be converted to a proc'd projectile exactly like Warden's Crystallized Slab to prevent these bug shenanigans.
BONUS BUG 1: If I equip Shield Breaker and light attack a Dk's Wings, nothing happens. It should proc against the Dk since Wings is a type of damage shield IMO.
BONUS BUG 2: Ele/Crushing Weapon ranged light attacks completely disappear when hitting wings.
ele weapon does only connect if the LA connects, which doesnt happen, the LA is absorbed into the code, and a new LA gets fired back at you
since you never landed the LA, the eleweapon cannot connect
working as intended I think.
shieldbreaker and other sets stuff proccing from a reflected LA can ofc be discussed, but Im not that much of a pvper to say its balanced or not...I can jsut say that other sets are procces aswell, thes its only consistently working as intended.
Yeah, but see the example I mentioned above about reflected LAs proccing the glyph belonging to said caster of the LA. It contradicts the theory that reflected LAs change ownership to the DK.
I'll try to get in touch with my friend that did the testing and post more details when I can. Until then, we can still debate the balance implications of this mechanic.Edited by TheYKcid on March 25, 2019 3:06PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shieldbreaker & Wings been this way for a long time.
Reflects change light attacks as they were used by the one reflecting them.
And yes, it also works on several other proc sets to trigger them.0 -
CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »seems to work like it should IMO
the LA is not longer casted by you, it comes from the DK, and if he has a LA proccing set, well thats gona proc then.
It should also proc Zaan, or Sirorias Boon...but never tested it tbh.
if it deosnt prov zaan or siroria, then it is bugged with Shieldbreaker set.
If it does proc zaan and siroria then definetly working like it should
Shieldbreaker shouldnt exist any more, to be blunt. After the murkmire shield changes, there is zero reason for such an unbelievably broken set to exist.
Where does the mukmire patch matter about shield breaker?0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »seems to work like it should IMO
the LA is not longer casted by you, it comes from the DK, and if he has a LA proccing set, well thats gona proc then.
It should also proc Zaan, or Sirorias Boon...but never tested it tbh.
if it deosnt prov zaan or siroria, then it is bugged with Shieldbreaker set.
If it does proc zaan and siroria then definetly working like it should
Shieldbreaker shouldnt exist any more, to be blunt. After the murkmire shield changes, there is zero reason for such an unbelievably broken set to exist.
Where does the mukmire patch matter about shield breaker?
The justification for Oblivion damage, in past metas, was because shields were immune to several offensive mechanics (crits, penetration, elemental status effects). As such, people reasoned that an offensive option that correspondingly ignored shields was necessary.
With Murkmire, shield mechanics were adjusted, and they became susceptible to all 3 of the abovementioned damage sources/modifiers, and shield users now have to reallocate components of their build to mitigate accordingly.
That said, this is all just background info for your benefit—I don't intend for this thread to become about the Oblivion damage debate, just Shieldbreaker/Wings specifically.PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Confirmed.
Also, for some unknown reason I noticed that my crushing shock attacks were all reflected from one specific Dragonknight, even though they shouldn't.
I tested it against other Dragonknight and it wasn't reflected.
Maybe it is related to Shield Breaker.Edited by Universe on March 25, 2019 3:23PMSome videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince0 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
Found the one-class DK main with <20 hours clocked in PvP (and possibly the forums too)
But what about my other 9 characters?
They, for all intents and purposes, might as well not exist if you still struggle to sustain a 3.5k mag skill (prior to reductions) once every 6 GCDs.
Didn't know that the sustain on my MagDK was in direct correlation with my other characters existence Thanks for the heads-up!
No but the sustain on your magDK is probably directly correlated with your IQ.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
And your sustain is pretty bad.
Thanks for the constructive feedback, you must be blazing at social interactions. Too bad you derailed your own thread though with insults.
I mean your original post contained zero constructive criticism of its own, as anyone with a modicum of PvP competence will tell you, so nothing of value was lost, really. I got a few free bumps out of the exchange; I'd say it worked in my favour. So thank you, on the contrary.
But it did. This forum has been full of people complaining on one of the few good skills that the DK has to bring to the PvP table, when it clearly exists many many counters to it. It's probably the same people that complains on cloak, snipe, and all other "OP" skills that has counters if you're a competent PvP:er.
Every skill in the game has counters. Most sets have counters. That's why good players adapt and overcome, while the bad players complain on the forums.EU PC1 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Working as intended, don’t see no bug. I don’t see any imbalance either. Counters exist you can just run away since mag dk is slow AF.2
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TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
Found the one-class DK main with <20 hours clocked in PvP (and possibly the forums too)
But what about my other 9 characters?
They, for all intents and purposes, might as well not exist if you still struggle to sustain a 3.5k mag skill (prior to reductions) once every 6 GCDs.
Didn't know that the sustain on my MagDK was in direct correlation with my other characters existence Thanks for the heads-up!
No but the sustain on your magDK is probably directly correlated with your IQ.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
And your sustain is pretty bad.
Thanks for the constructive feedback, you must be blazing at social interactions. Too bad you derailed your own thread though with insults.
I mean your original post contained zero constructive criticism of its own, as anyone with a modicum of PvP competence will tell you, so nothing of value was lost, really. I got a few free bumps out of the exchange; I'd say it worked in my favour. So thank you, on the contrary.
But it did. This forum has been full of people complaining on one of the few good skills that the DK has to bring to the PvP table, when it clearly exists many many counters to it. It's probably the same people that complains on cloak, snipe, and all other "OP" skills that has counters if you're a competent PvP:er.
Every skill in the game has counters. Most sets have counters. That's why good players adapt and overcome, while the bad players complain on the forums.
Perhaps you should stop complaining about your lack of sustain and Adapt & Overcome®.PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »Working as intended, don’t see no bug. I don’t see any imbalance either. Counters exist you can just run away since mag dk is slow AF.
You genuinely don't see any issues with a player versus player scenario that exclusively involves one player running away from another?
Idk about anyone else, but I personally don't fancy ESO turning into Mario Kart.PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden4 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With the changes to shields and healing ward, shieldbreaker is stupid and doesn't need to exist.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info3 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You forgot some entry to the list of things you can not do:
* Can't use the search function on the forums to find the other five hundred threads on Wings and how OP it is.
* Can't understand PvP properly to use a skill that is not a projectile to hurt the DK.
* Can't wait out the window where wings duration ends and the DK will have a hard time casting a new one since the skill is expensive and you need magicka for other skills/are out of magicka.
Glad I could help out
Imagine thinking it’s hard to sustain using wings 😂😂😂2 -
RouDeR✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »seems to work like it should IMO
the LA is not longer casted by you, it comes from the DK, and if he has a LA proccing set, well thats gona proc then.
It should also proc Zaan, or Sirorias Boon...but never tested it tbh.
if it deosnt prov zaan or siroria, then it is bugged with Shieldbreaker set.
If it does proc zaan and siroria then definetly working like it should
It prpcs zaan0 -
Rukzadlithau✭✭✭✭These dough arses will completely ignore this, as any fundamentally explained and technically easy to solve problem this game has 0
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Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭If a DK equips the Shieldbreaker set & uses wings, light attacking them not only reflects your attack back at you... it also procs their Shieldbreaker on you.
So now basically:- Can't burst, because wings are up
- Can't shield-up and erode wings with LAs, because Shieldbreaker procs will f*** you
- Can't forgo the shield and use LAs, because reflected LAs and the DK's own damage will f*** you
I'm not even going to delve into the issue of why Oblivion damage still exists in its current state—whatever your stance on the matter, blatantly exploitable spaghetti code like this needs to be patched ASAP.
What exactly are you asking for?
Shieldbraker adjustment? - won't happen, zos doesn't like to aknowledge their bad balancing attempts.
Wings nerf? Won't happen as it was already nerfed in the past.
Why won't you tell what class are you playing so the forum can actually help you with some advises.0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭any discussion of shieldbreaker is pointless because this set is just stupid from design and absolutely op that is way so many defend this set.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus1 -
Crom_CCCXVI✭✭✭✭✭OH WOW.... a Sorc lost to a DK, come in here and cry likes Sorcs always do.
Didn't you guys already get Sheild Breaker nerfed last year? yeah, now it only proc's once on a staff.
Maybe when ZOS fixes targeting so you can't hide behind your pets, and probably Engine Guardian for extra cheese then they can nerf sheild breaker again?
Sorcs make me laugh, 2 big sheilds, endless recovery, Encase, Curse, hiding behind pets, streak, mages wrath and the one class that can sometimes "hold them off" Dragon Knights they endless complain about because they lose one fight because their cookie cutter burst didn't work. wow
1
