Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
How much is a healer worth dps wise in a trial?
-
WickidMexican✭✭✭I would say significantly. Dps can focus more on attacking without worrying about their health to much.1 -
Flameheart✭✭✭✭✭A lot.
- Without healing more deaths or more movement to avoid inc damage = less dps
- without support buffs like drain and bubbles less ressources = less dps
- just one word: warhornSometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.
So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.
Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think some characterization is needed.
If you consider all the DPS would die in challenging trials without healers then they are worth the entire amount of DPS the group puts out, when they are not dead. Of course this is taking into account a good healer.
If you are only looking at the increased dps the group provides based solely on buff and sustain, that which the healer provide over an above straight heals, it becomes much more complicated.1 -
Keewo✭✭✭As our groups are running most of them with 4 DDs non DLCs HMs and the DLC HMs with 3DDs 1 Tank.. i would say not much.
But in Cases like nodeath runs a healer is more like a safety option.Stam Dk aus Leidenschaft0 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As our groups are running most of them with 4 DDs non DLCs HMs and the DLC HMs with 3DDs 1 Tank.. i would say not much.
But in Cases like nodeath runs a healer is more like a safety option.
Assuming all your damage dealers are decently tanky with good HP and self healing.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As our groups are running most of them with 4 DDs non DLCs HMs and the DLC HMs with 3DDs 1 Tank.. i would say not much.
But in Cases like nodeath runs a healer is more like a safety option.
OP is talking about trials. Not 4 man content. Further, when talking trials she probably means vet trials and probably outside of Craglorn. Something with an actual challenge.2 -
Keewo✭✭✭As our groups are running most of them with 4 DDs non DLCs HMs and the DLC HMs with 3DDs 1 Tank.. i would say not much.
But in Cases like nodeath runs a healer is more like a safety option.
OP is talking about trials. Not 4 man content. Further, when talking trials she probably means vet trials and probably outside of Craglorn. Something with an actual challenge.
Oh I missed that Point.. but with DLC and non DLC HMs i meant veteran..Stam Dk aus Leidenschaft0 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭As our groups are running most of them with 4 DDs non DLCs HMs and the DLC HMs with 3DDs 1 Tank.. i would say not much.
But in Cases like nodeath runs a healer is more like a safety option.
OP is talking about trials. Not 4 man content. Further, when talking trials she probably means vet trials and probably outside of Craglorn. Something with an actual challenge.
Oh I missed that Point.. but with DLC and non DLC HMs i meant veteran..
Those aren't trials though.0 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭8% from 100 % combat prayer uptime
Actually it is pretty easy to tell. Watch the healers die and then watch the result. Most of the dps done in trials relies on healers, I would suggest.
Tangent: It's a pretty sad indictment of the game that 4 dps can complete vet dungeons, let alone hardmode. But that's for another thread.Edited by aetherial_heavenn on March 25, 2019 9:55AMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos0 -
Nightingale707✭✭✭How much a single Healer improves DPS will rely a lot on what Buffs that healer provides.
IA: 8%
Combat prayer on nonNB/nonWarden: 8%
Warhorn (maybe Jorvulds buffed)
Sustain: ele drain, sets, Orbs
Templar Healers: PotL - less CP into penetration for DDs means more CP into damage bonuses
Synergies: Purify, Shards/Orbs, Conduit, Harvest, Altar, Bone Shield - Alkosh procs - again less CP into penetration means more CP into damage bonuses
Blockade of Shock: offbalance - StamDDs usually have the Exploiter passive - 10% extra damage to enemys that are off balance
If you add all this together you get a very feasable damage increase.
If you want to make it easier: most good DDs (not going for the fully OP Hodor DPS here) will pull 50k on magDD and 55+k on stamDD on a 6million Dummy with drain/Orbs provided.
This number goes up to 70-90k depending on class and build on bosses, where DDs get to parse while Tanks and Healers support them.
So a good team of Tanks and Healers will easily add 20-40k DPS to each single DD in optimal conditions.3 -
MokiDono✭✭✭Since i am a very, very, very VERY important DPS, i won't have time to move out of AOEs, so I need a lot of healing. The rotation is above everything else. Also, defensive cooldowns are a waste of dps as well. Therefore, it is an important role."Your courage... your power... are not completely insignificant. Perhaps you can be made to serve. Do not fight. Do not resist. Give yourselves over now, or be destroyed."4 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭with good uptimes, not jsut form the healer, but all raidbuffs etc. Id say you get an increase of 15-25k / DD
taking normal 8 DD's thats a whopping 120-200K more DPS -> equal to about 3-4 DD's
Which in my eyes seems pretty okey, so we could say each tank/ healer does also 40k DPS (which is solid) jus tby buffing the 8 DDs in the groupPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think some characterization is needed.
If you consider all the DPS would die in challenging trials without healers then they are worth the entire amount of DPS the group puts out, when they are not dead. Of course this is taking into account a good healer.
If you are only looking at the increased dps the group provides based solely on buff and sustain, that which the healer provide over an above straight heals, it becomes much more complicated.
I trying to create some new tactics and considering factors vs 1 and 2 healers with group.0 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Since i am a very, very, very VERY important DPS, i won't have time to move out of AOEs, so I need a lot of healing. The rotation is above everything else. Also, defensive cooldowns are a waste of dps as well. Therefore, it is an important role.
in FFXIV every Black Mage (turret dps) ever thinks like this!Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »8% from 100 % combat prayer uptime
Tangent: It's a pretty sad indictment of the game that 4 dps can complete vet dungeons, let alone hardmode. But that's for another thread.
It happeneds in all MMOs, I can complete a old content (even DLC Dungeons), with only 1 tank (I'm DPS).0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Point of arithmetic -- 8% from Minor Berserk isn't 8%, because of additivity; it's probably in the 5-6% range. And for nightblades it's more like 0% because of skillbars.
0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Depends a lot on the healer really. A healer in Olorime, IA and Symphony with Warhorn, Ele Drain and Combat Prayer will increase DPS significantly. A healer in Mending, Sanctuary and Bogdan with Barrier, Rapid Regen and Springs will add no DPS. The trick is to find the balance between buffs and healing, which shifts more toward buffs as your group gets better at following mechanics.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I’ve been trying to figure out the same thing. It really depends on your raid composition and specs.
IA - if you have a sorc running it healer’s contribution is 0 from the set
Combat Prayer - doesn’t help NBs and Wardens
Ele drain - resists debuff can be provided by other classes, sustain is an issue without it
Warhorn - depends on the raid for uptime
I’d say off the top of my head the contribution is between 0-20% per DD.
For dungeons bringing a healer can be optimal depending on the healer. Against trash I’m usually 1/3 of the group’s dps. Against boss’ I’m 10k dps. It depends on the healer really, if all they do is heal it might be best not to bring one.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think some characterization is needed.
If you consider all the DPS would die in challenging trials without healers then they are worth the entire amount of DPS the group puts out, when they are not dead. Of course this is taking into account a good healer.
If you are only looking at the increased dps the group provides based solely on buff and sustain, that which the healer provide over an above straight heals, it becomes much more complicated.
I trying to create some new tactics and considering factors vs 1 and 2 healers with group.
It is still a matter of context.
AA was solo healed during the first year it was out, even when we were still v12, it's original level.
However, vMoL, vHoF, vCR and HM of all those become a very different situation. Speaking from a HM point of view of newer trials I expect most need 2 healers. While it is rare I have cleared vHoF no in HM outside running some training runs, I cannot imagine the Assembly General being solo healed considering the burn phase.
So if you are talking vAA, it is probably still doable to clear it with one very good healer if not done in HM. Many tanks can handle the axes on their own allowing the group to stack on the mage's butt with one dps in melee range taunting her to face the other direction. That is simple and just carries the risk of what happens if the healer goes down, but that is always the case for a single healer.
vHRC needs a second healer in the split. Storm fall on the final boss is where the question would be if a single healer could handle it since everyone needs to be slightly spread out. It would certainly be challenging to get one healing springs to cover the whole group there.
It is less of a matter of the dps benefit a healer brings to the group. It is more about can a solo healer handle the fight. That includes the rest of the group being good enough to avoid and mitigate their heavy damage as well as being disciplined enough to move as they are told to move. Most do not fit that bill. Even pretty good players that would handle instructions well on a core team tend to not follow them as well when they are a guild based pug group.
That is just my thoughts. I am not being critical of your overall goal. Please do not take any part of this as a personal attack.1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think some characterization is needed.
If you consider all the DPS would die in challenging trials without healers then they are worth the entire amount of DPS the group puts out, when they are not dead. Of course this is taking into account a good healer.
If you are only looking at the increased dps the group provides based solely on buff and sustain, that which the healer provide over an above straight heals, it becomes much more complicated.
I trying to create some new tactics and considering factors vs 1 and 2 healers with group.
It is still a matter of context.
AA was solo healed during the first year it was out, even when we were still v12, it's original level.
However, vMoL, vHoF, vCR and HM of all those become a very different situation. Speaking from a HM point of view of newer trials I expect most need 2 healers. While it is rare I have cleared vHoF no in HM outside running some training runs, I cannot imagine the Assembly General being solo healed considering the burn phase.
So if you are talking vAA, it is probably still doable to clear it with one very good healer if not done in HM. Many tanks can handle the axes on their own allowing the group to stack on the mage's butt with one dps in melee range taunting her to face the other direction. That is simple and just carries the risk of what happens if the healer goes down, but that is always the case for a single healer.
vHRC needs a second healer in the split. Storm fall on the final boss is where the question would be if a single healer could handle it since everyone needs to be slightly spread out. It would certainly be challenging to get one healing springs to cover the whole group there.
It is less of a matter of the dps benefit a healer brings to the group. It is more about can a solo healer handle the fight. That includes the rest of the group being good enough to avoid and mitigate their heavy damage as well as being disciplined enough to move as they are told to move. Most do not fit that bill. Even pretty good players that would handle instructions well on a core team tend to not follow them as well when they are a guild based pug group.
That is just my thoughts. I am not being critical of your overall goal. Please do not take any part of this as a personal attack.
Simply was curious and wanted fresh thoughts to work from. I don't bicker with people with people who aren't with malice.Edited by Tasear on March 27, 2019 7:43AM0
