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An Open Letter to Zenimax Online Studios / Zenimax / Bethesda...
Yirmeyahu
✭✭✭
The TL;DR is that you are failing.
You are failing the gamer/consumer which will ultimately lead to failing your share holders. Please, please... get back on course ASAP.
This coming April, yes, VERY soon, will be the 5 year anniversary of TESO PC launch. That is quite the accomplishment and yet the current "playability" of TESO is arguably the worst it has been in that entire timeframe. Anyone that has entered Cyrodiil in the past year already knows that the latency/lag/input lag (all of the above) is meme-worthy. I will link a video or two below in which you can actually see 8 to 10 button clicks registering on the skill bars, but never actually firing the skills. Also, characters basically beginning skill animations, but then abruptly stopping... over and over... with no skills ever actually firing.
Again, the above will be nothing new to anyone that has played TESO in the past year. However, this is now also spilling over into "every day life" (PvE zones) of the game. I can no longer visit a guild trader without having to click multiple times just to begin dialog with them. Then, when dialog finally does open, the amount of time for searches to actually complete is almost as meme-worthy as Cyrodiil play. In fact, much like in Cyrodiil, even opening a simple door to enter a bank in, say, Craglorn for example, is often taking multiple clicks and several seconds to complete. Even mounting sometimes takes multiple clicks to perform in PvE zones. (We will not even discuss "perma-combat" and walking from Drakelowe to Glademist due to not being able to mount in Cyrodiil.) Even clicking "send" on a mail with a couple attachments, regardless of where in the game world I am, can often just "hang and take 5-10 seconds to complete.
In short, there is no amount of "pretty", no amount of great story-telling, and no amount of dragons that will retain what I imagine will be a large influx of new players when Elsweyr launches later this year IF the game performance is still as it currently is. If someone like myself, with the insane amount of hours logged in to TESO since original launch, is on the edge of uninstalling due to the current performance... How much more readily will a new player quit if they find the game to be virtually unplayable a majority of the time?
In closing, I realize that the above is really harsh-sounding. Please realize that if I simply "hated the game", I would not be here making a post and, certainly, would not have the time and money invested in that I do. I WANT this game to succeed in every way possible. I LOVE it! I'm simply pointing out what should be obvious and imploring anyone involved with the power to exact positive change to do so in time for what SHOULD be the most successful Chapter in TESO to date.
=======
Both of the videos below were recorded in non-primetime Vivec Cyrodiil.
I could provide video of the PvE zone "lag" mentioned above, if needed. (I simply do not currently have any recorded.)
No less than 8 clicks of the ultimate (as seen on the skill bar) while neither CC'd or negated with the skill never firing...
https://youtu.be/6GH_1qRDdMQ
General lag/latency/skills not firing on a typical day of open world PvP.
https://youtu.be/9vJGN4AV2M0
Note: Before anyone says anything involving "addons"... Please be aware that I have played TESO with absolutely no addons installed (as well as tested LUA memory usage during play) just to be sure that is not an issue. Performance did not change; neither did it change with turning effects/graphics down to archaic levels. (Additionally, Action Duration Reminder addon is on in the videos to further show skills are not firing, as the timers are not running. The fact that stats, such as magicka, are not going down during spam-casting moments of Rapid Regeneration, for example, indicates that ADR is not incorrect. Skills are simply not firing.) I have also switched from Comcast cable internet to 1Gig symmetrical fiber in the last year... just in the name of checking that possibility as well. (The connection tests at 948 MB download & upload with 4 to 6 pingrate to the test server, as expected.)
My PC specs are...
Intel 8700K CPU, 16Gb (3200) RAM, M.2 SSD (OS) w/ ESO isntalled to separate SSD, and nVidia 1070 GPU.
Secondary PC is AMD 2700X, AMD 580 GPU with basically the same surrounding specs as the Intel PC.
Both PCs run updated Windows 10 Pro with up-to-date BIOS and drivers (including manually downloaded Chipsets from manufacturer websites).
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Edited by Yirmeyahu on March 25, 2019 12:17AM You are failing the gamer/consumer which will ultimately lead to failing your share holders. Please, please... get back on course ASAP.
This coming April, yes, VERY soon, will be the 5 year anniversary of TESO PC launch. That is quite the accomplishment and yet the current "playability" of TESO is arguably the worst it has been in that entire timeframe. Anyone that has entered Cyrodiil in the past year already knows that the latency/lag/input lag (all of the above) is meme-worthy. I will link a video or two below in which you can actually see 8 to 10 button clicks registering on the skill bars, but never actually firing the skills. Also, characters basically beginning skill animations, but then abruptly stopping... over and over... with no skills ever actually firing.
Again, the above will be nothing new to anyone that has played TESO in the past year. However, this is now also spilling over into "every day life" (PvE zones) of the game. I can no longer visit a guild trader without having to click multiple times just to begin dialog with them. Then, when dialog finally does open, the amount of time for searches to actually complete is almost as meme-worthy as Cyrodiil play. In fact, much like in Cyrodiil, even opening a simple door to enter a bank in, say, Craglorn for example, is often taking multiple clicks and several seconds to complete. Even mounting sometimes takes multiple clicks to perform in PvE zones. (We will not even discuss "perma-combat" and walking from Drakelowe to Glademist due to not being able to mount in Cyrodiil.) Even clicking "send" on a mail with a couple attachments, regardless of where in the game world I am, can often just "hang and take 5-10 seconds to complete.
In short, there is no amount of "pretty", no amount of great story-telling, and no amount of dragons that will retain what I imagine will be a large influx of new players when Elsweyr launches later this year IF the game performance is still as it currently is. If someone like myself, with the insane amount of hours logged in to TESO since original launch, is on the edge of uninstalling due to the current performance... How much more readily will a new player quit if they find the game to be virtually unplayable a majority of the time?
In closing, I realize that the above is really harsh-sounding. Please realize that if I simply "hated the game", I would not be here making a post and, certainly, would not have the time and money invested in that I do. I WANT this game to succeed in every way possible. I LOVE it! I'm simply pointing out what should be obvious and imploring anyone involved with the power to exact positive change to do so in time for what SHOULD be the most successful Chapter in TESO to date.
=======
Both of the videos below were recorded in non-primetime Vivec Cyrodiil.
I could provide video of the PvE zone "lag" mentioned above, if needed. (I simply do not currently have any recorded.)
No less than 8 clicks of the ultimate (as seen on the skill bar) while neither CC'd or negated with the skill never firing...
https://youtu.be/6GH_1qRDdMQGeneral lag/latency/skills not firing on a typical day of open world PvP.
https://youtu.be/9vJGN4AV2M0Note: Before anyone says anything involving "addons"... Please be aware that I have played TESO with absolutely no addons installed (as well as tested LUA memory usage during play) just to be sure that is not an issue. Performance did not change; neither did it change with turning effects/graphics down to archaic levels. (Additionally, Action Duration Reminder addon is on in the videos to further show skills are not firing, as the timers are not running. The fact that stats, such as magicka, are not going down during spam-casting moments of Rapid Regeneration, for example, indicates that ADR is not incorrect. Skills are simply not firing.) I have also switched from Comcast cable internet to 1Gig symmetrical fiber in the last year... just in the name of checking that possibility as well. (The connection tests at 948 MB download & upload with 4 to 6 pingrate to the test server, as expected.)
My PC specs are...
Intel 8700K CPU, 16Gb (3200) RAM, M.2 SSD (OS) w/ ESO isntalled to separate SSD, and nVidia 1070 GPU.
Secondary PC is AMD 2700X, AMD 580 GPU with basically the same surrounding specs as the Intel PC.
Both PCs run updated Windows 10 Pro with up-to-date BIOS and drivers (including manually downloaded Chipsets from manufacturer websites).
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
35
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Avoid PvP.
That's a pretty stupid thing to say to pvpers, who only play this game solely for PvP. As stated, we only complain so much because we love this game, and we want to enjoy it, but it's impossible with this performance degradation. I only fear what Elsweyr will be like with potentially lots of new people and Necromancers running around lifting bodies out of the ground.
I've never played an online game with such terrible optimization before, and I certainly didn't expect it from a AAA title, and for it to go on for so long.
They've said they have plans, but it may take a while. Considering their track record I don't have much hope, but I'll hang in there and wait. If nothing changes, or it gets worse, I'm out. I can only have my heart broken so many times.24 -
Yirmeyahu✭✭✭Avoid PvP. Like 80% of the playerbase and it will get better
The problem with that is I used to be one of the top PvE players (in 3rd PC-NA group clear of VHoF HM when it launched) before a torn rotator cuff, carpal & cubital tunnel syndrome combined sidelined that. I now mostly solo play Cyrodiil since my own eroded skills there do not negatively impact anyone else in a group. I can also tell you that "lag" wasn't much better in trials a year ago, the last time I ran one, either.
The overall point I'm trying to make is that there appears to be nowhere "safe" in TESO from the plague that is "lag". I "demand" nothing of ZOS/Zeni/Beth... I simply want to see this game be what it can and should be... especially with such a huge anniversary and chapter launch around the corner.
Edited by Yirmeyahu on March 24, 2019 8:07PM7 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avoid PvP. Like 80% of the playerbase and it will get better
You miss the PVE mention? Miss the dozens of other PVE performance threads that inevitably get buried? Telling someone to skip half the game they want to play is not a solution. A proper solution would be for a developer or someone in charge to come here and post about what's being done to improve gameplay. Since all around performance has been steadily deteriorating, then an explanation for this should also be forthcoming. Instead these complaints are mostly ignored. Advertising is always prominent in this game. Not much else is.14 -
ks888✭✭✭✭It's sad when things like ExitLag are almost required to play primetime PvP. Even then, it's only a slight improvement. Some lag is to be expected. I have said for a while that at least when Wabbajack and Auriel's Bow lagged back in the day, at least everyone on all sides of a fight froze lol.
It's great that ZOS wants the huge fights they envisioned Cyrodiil to be, but it's their responsibility to provide a platform that makes it possible. I'm sure those giant fights would be fun if the game could handle it, but it can't right now. Crown crates for a quick buck can only sustain a company for so long and I imagine if performance stays bad, they will continue to have people drop subs. Many of the folks I play with have already out of frustration.
Who knows. At this point, I play to be around people I enjoy. I don't expect my game to work, ever, but when it does I'm pleasantly surprised for a few minutes. Woot.DC NA - Norri - Khole RIP - [Mostly Outnumbered]** I have too many toons **RIP every alt I deleted - where am I? what year is it?3 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Good news! This year is devoted primarily to performance improvements, which have been an on-going project.
The game was designed for processor technology that was available a decade ago. Re-writing base game code to take advantage of multicore processing technology has taken years. Perhaps that project will largely be finished this year.
5 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good news! This year is devoted primarily to performance improvements, which have been an on-going project.
The game was designed for processor technology that was available a decade ago. Re-writing base game code to take advantage of multicore processing technology has taken years. Perhaps that project will largely be finished this year.
Huh? More like the game was designed as tech demo on LAN and when they realized the internet had 50x higher latency, it was too late to redesign it and rewrite 7 years of code. Oops.
But apparently buggy mess is good enough, players pay anyway.6 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good news! This year is devoted primarily to performance improvements, which have been an on-going project.
The game was designed for processor technology that was available a decade ago. Re-writing base game code to take advantage of multicore processing technology has taken years. Perhaps that project will largely be finished this year.
A lot of us are hoping, but a lot of us have curbed our optimism and and enthusiasm after so many "No ETAs" since the release of the Imperial City way back when. They've been saying that there are going to be performance improvements and we've only seen maybe a light one and then one they nixed due to over-performing siege. IIRC they said it was supposed to be out with Elsweyr, but we'll see.Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!4 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FleetwoodSmack wrote: »Good news! This year is devoted primarily to performance improvements, which have been an on-going project.
The game was designed for processor technology that was available a decade ago. Re-writing base game code to take advantage of multicore processing technology has taken years. Perhaps that project will largely be finished this year.
A lot of us are hoping, but a lot of us have curbed our optimism and and enthusiasm after so many "No ETAs" since the release of the Imperial City way back when. They've been saying that there are going to be performance improvements and we've only seen maybe a light one and then one they nixed due to over-performing siege. IIRC they said it was supposed to be out with Elsweyr, but we'll see.
I share your opinion.
2 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Good news! This year is devoted primarily to performance improvements, which have been an on-going project.
The game was designed for processor technology that was available a decade ago. Re-writing base game code to take advantage of multicore processing technology has taken years. Perhaps that project will largely be finished this year.
Huh? More like the game was designed as tech demo on LAN and when they realized the internet had 50x higher latency, it was too late to redesign it and rewrite 7 years of code. Oops.
But apparently buggy mess is good enough, players pay anyway.
Actually, the game was started in 2008, but after the success of Skyrim and disappointing early feedback, the first design was substantially re-written. That re-write was completed with the launch of One Tamriel.
Nevertheless, the game is designed around single thread processing, if I understand developer and certain player comments correctly, and has been going through re-writes to take advantage of multithread processing.
Take the above with a grain of salt. I am no longer sufficiently knowledgeable about chip technology to state precisely, but the gist is an accurate reflection of ZoS statements.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭it is true that lagg and ping is more than horrible in eso and has been that way now going on 6 years.
a very bad thing but it is reality that needs fixed.
at this point, i am not sure it can be fixed.1 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭FleetwoodSmack wrote: »Good news! This year is devoted primarily to performance improvements, which have been an on-going project.
The game was designed for processor technology that was available a decade ago. Re-writing base game code to take advantage of multicore processing technology has taken years. Perhaps that project will largely be finished this year.
A lot of us are hoping, but a lot of us have curbed our optimism and and enthusiasm after so many "No ETAs" since the release of the Imperial City way back when. They've been saying that there are going to be performance improvements and we've only seen maybe a light one and then one they nixed due to over-performing siege. IIRC they said it was supposed to be out with Elsweyr, but we'll see.
I share your opinion.
I will say this though, the new databasing system seems to have made things more snappy on my end (even before my old potato broke a week and a half ago). So it's definitely a step forward. I think the large issue that people have to remember is that a lot of what ESO was built on is pretty much outdated, so you're right--it's going to take a lot of time to get back to a better footing.
My guess is the reason why it took so long for them to even start the year of performance is because they still have a hot mess still to deal with at the same time as giving the playerbase content so that it can remain relevant. There's caveats to that, but I guess it's something that they've decided was the right idea. My honest opinion is that it just seems like they've bitten off more than they can chew in terms of delivering something and it falls short to the general expectations of us who've been here a while.
I still don't trust that ZoS can fix it, but I will honestly say that so far I've seen them try this year. So it's something that I'm keeping an eye on and trying to constructively combat people who say "Well every game has it's fair share of issues." Or others who go "Well why don't you leave?" We don't leave because we've been here. We really loved the game at some point (and we still do even if it's not working). We just want it to work better. And I'll admit, I've been super passionate to the point where posts got moderated, but looking back on it now I can't really be surprised that they're not as transparent about these issues as other developers are. It's like throwing chum in already shark-infested waters.
Either way though, I still am most likely getting Elsweyr because Necromancers sound fun.Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!3 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP is the only true end game in ESO.
PvE end game is standing in 1 spot playing simon says with buttons, predictable.9 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The number of times the word "lag" was mentioned in ESO, both in-game and on the different forums is probably the world record for the highest usage of the word "lag"...Edited by Universe on March 25, 2019 12:36AMSome videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol at the people saying to PvE.
As someone who’s both PvPed(1vX and small scale yet still lag to the point abilities aren’t usable) and PvEd(done all vet trials in the game) since launch, I can comfortably say the game performance is equally as bad in both.
Have you ran up top recently in vHOF? That is the absolute laggiest mess in the game and it’s appalling. Spend over an hour in any trial, pug or not, and the frames drop to absolute trash.
Game performance has been and always will be an issue sadly. They care about the crown store more than game performance, which is blatantly obvious. Myself as well as other end-game players have been holding out in hopes that it’ll improve, but after the Elsweyr post-show where they spent 30 seconds talking about performance and gave a 8 month ETa I gave up completely.Edited by templesus on March 24, 2019 10:11PM6 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭I love when I get D/C during BG and I end up with 15 min ban with no chance to return to match while some random rage quitter just logs off during a match and he goes to play on another toon xD2
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Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Oh and performance wise this game is pure garbage. I get d/cs every 20 min since... ever? I have better PC than you and I live in central Germany (100mbit DSL cable internet) and I have tried turning off my addons (it didnt help).0
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Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PvP is the only true end game in ESO.
PvE end game is standing in 1 spot playing simon says with buttons, predictable.
Indeed.
That's why completing any dungeon/trial in this game is not a proof of skill.
Players are practically zerging the Boss
Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince2 -
GlorphNoldorin✭✭✭✭✭The TL;DR is that you are failing.
You are failing the gamer/consumer which will ultimately lead to failing your share holders. Please, please... get back on course ASAP.
Based on the evidence we have previously from ZOS, this is an unfortunate waste of your time, although I agree 100% with everything you have said.0 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭finally someone has written all the truth. now when devs are ashamed they will finally fix it. thank you so much1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Didn’t they just do a database transfer/update?
Maybe they are actually working on it.
I don’t know, I have my own opinion about prideful devs.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP has been laggy as heck since day one of this game. I know because I was there. If PvP is still a "lagfest" it is only because either ZOS cannot fix it or ZOS won't fix it. I don't know which is worse.0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another thread, another "I'm trying to be professional about saying you and your game sucks." letter.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!2 -
Matt Firor ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Firor ) has been in the online gaming business for decades. He has done alot of great work and has the ability to do even more great work. (to me or in my opinion) he is now in such a position Matt Firor is currently the president of ZeniMax. So now he has to Develop a game people will play (done that with eso) then he has to make a profit that makes the shareholders happy. in other words. Matt Firor has went from Designing and producing games for the for the gamers. (to make them happy ) to now needing to hook players into a game but more importantly make a profit for the share holders on Zenimax. I believe that ESO (game-play is loosely either based or ideas came from Dark Age of Camelot) is sharing some ideas taken from " Dark Age of Camelot"( Great game in it's time,and is still going since 2001 (Designer(s)Mark Jacobs Matt Firor & Rob Denton)
Yes I've played Dark Age of Camelot/Daoc since the last part of the beta, I also beta tested the last few sessions of the beta tests for Eso, I bought the game while it was still in beta and played and payed until it went free to play. in which I uninstalled and went back to dark age of camelot. Came back, off and on about 2 years ago, I had a massive stroke April 17th 2018. was gone from game for several months, and now a days I am trying to get back in to grouping (lightly) as the stroke has made a new human-being with Deficits,having to learn how to do thing all over again. The right side of my body was affected, as a result of the stroke. All my reflexes on the right side are weak and slow. I credit PC gaming (ESO) with a lot of my progression with eye and hand coordination as well as right arm, hand and finger movement.
In My Opinion, Matt Firor and his team can get this fixed. Just have to get the issues to the President (Matt Firor )
"Matt Firor's first foray into online gaming was a failed attempt in 1987 to license The Scepter of Goth BBS MUD. The second, more successful project was the co-founding of Interesting Systems (ISI) with Rob Denton and two others, in 1990. At ISI, Firor was co-designer and lead content developer for ISI's multi-user BBS game Tempest (later renamed Darkness Falls).
ISI merged with Adventures Unlimited Software to form Mythic Entertainment in 1995. Firor stayed at Mythic from 1995 to 2006, where he was the producer of most of Mythic's titles, including the worldwide MMORPG bestseller Dark Age of Camelot and its first two expansions.
Firor was vice-president of product development at Mythic, where he was - along with COO Rob Denton - responsible for the management of all of Mythic's development projects. In 2005-06, he led Mythic's internal console technology team which assessed the future of MMORPGs on next-generation console platforms.
In June 2006, Firor left Mythic Entertainment to found Ultra Mega Games, a consulting company specializing in online gaming services. August 1, 2007, he was hired by ZeniMax Media Inc., parent company of Bethesda Softworks, to head ZeniMax Online Studios. Firor is currently the president of ZeniMax Online, and runs the division. He and his team are working on The Elder Scrolls Online.[1]
Matt Firor's game credits.
Game credits
1991: Tempest (content/design)
1996: Rolemaster: Magestorm (producer/design)
1996: Splatterball (producer/design)
1997: Darkness Falls (producer/design/content)
1997: Rolemaster: Bladelands (producer)
1998: Aliens Online (producer/design)
1998: Starship Troopers: Battlespace (producer)
1998: Godzilla Online (producer)
1999: Silent Death Online (producer/lead designer)
1999: Darkness Falls: The Crusade (producer)
1999: Splatterball Plus (producer)
1999: Darkstorm: The Well of Souls (producer)
1999: Spellbinder: The Nexus Conflict (producer/design)
2001: Dark Age of Camelot (producer/design)
2002: Dark Age of Camelot: Shrouded Isles (producer/design)
2003: Dark Age of Camelot: Trials of Atlantis (executive producer)
2004: Dark Age of Camelot: Catacombs (executive producer)
2014: The Elder Scrolls Online (director)
4
THEY LIED TO ME!!11!1!one!1! 
