Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
what are tanks supposed to be doing
lolli42
✭✭✭
i mean, i know but rlly^^
the thing i can do as a tank, is holding the boss at a spot for the ground attacks, and ccing some adds
but rlly almost every boss doesnt care at all and just rages out with his special attacks at random group members, 1 hitting them with jumps, magic attacks, etc.
just to return to me and hit me with useless basic attacks
whats the point of this?
i am supposed to eat the damage, not the DDs xD
the most important part of being a tank, i feel, is ressing teammembers^^
the thing i can do as a tank, is holding the boss at a spot for the ground attacks, and ccing some adds
but rlly almost every boss doesnt care at all and just rages out with his special attacks at random group members, 1 hitting them with jumps, magic attacks, etc.
just to return to me and hit me with useless basic attacks
whats the point of this?
i am supposed to eat the damage, not the DDs xD
the most important part of being a tank, i feel, is ressing teammembers^^
4
-
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What content are you talking about specifically? Sounds like Asylum?
ZOS has added some mechanics in which the boss will do something to attack others when taunted because otherwise it becomes a very stale "tanks and spank" style of gameplay. DPS in ESO have to keep alert or play mechanics as well.
Other roles of the tank in ESO are normally buff/debuff as well and generally you'll still be eating/blocking the big hits which will one shot non-tank players (maybe even if you if you don't block).@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, as a tank you should tank the things that DDS shouldn't survive. And DDS should be able to do mechanics that shouldn't kill them. Being a DD is not about standing and hitting a non moving skeleton.5 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tanking - getting crowd controlled, rag-dolled, and beaten up you so your friends don't have to.5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most dungeon bosses have mechanics where they will turn away fron the tank, hit a group member, then return to the tank. This is by design. ZOS wants DDs and healers to be engaged in the fight too.
So your job is to:
Keep the boss taunted so it isnt hunting another party member.
Keep the boss more or less still in the AOEs.
If possible, turn the boss away fron party members, that way there's a big telegraph when the boss turns to attack and they don't get hit by cleave attacks.
Block heavy attacks, bash and interrupt when the mechanics call for it.
Debuff the boss and buff party members - this helps even on bosses that cannot be taunted.
Now, some of those attacks that focus on other party members can be subverted with mechanics. For example, some bosses jump on the farthest player away, like Swarm Mother in Spindleclutch 1.Edited by VaranisArano on March 19, 2019 3:04PM4 -
JediCody✭✭✭ESO Tanking in a nutshell:
1. Survivability
2. Resource Management
3. Group Utility
So, stay alive, manage your resources while keeping taunt on the priority threat in any given encounter. In a nutshell, that is.2 -
lolli42✭✭✭I know all this
Its just as u said
Almost any boss got those engages
And weak DDs just get 1 hitted
Thats well...yea vet mod should deserve its name
Still i feel fooled, when im the only one, who doesnt get the heavy attacks xD
1 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My tank keeps notes. When he finds a boss he cannot taunt, he'll never do that dungeon again. Job #1 is taunting the boss so no point getting frustrated by dumb mechanics. Zos may have their 'objectives' but mine are the ones that guide my play, not theirs.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo7 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Most DD are expected to have somewhere between 16-18k health, most common these days is 17k with 1k bonus from Ebon Armour.I know all this
Its just as u said
Almost any boss got those engages
And weak DDs just get 1 hitted
Thats well...yea vet mod should deserve its name
Still i feel fooled, when im the only one, who doesnt get the heavy attacks xD
DD are also expected to move/dodge/block/shield incoming attacks, if they're dying it's probably due to not understanding mechanics or lack of attention to what's happening.
As said previously, this isn't a tank and spank MMO. Every player in the group needs to be aware and move at times not just stack and do rotations, at least not in later content (some earlier stuff this is possible).
This is so the gameplay remains engaging, as tank as spank becomes dull and the normal solution to it is "threat levels" for DD characters who are too efficient.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, one thing I see many tanks not do that they should, is bash. Interrupt the daylights out of the bosses. It’s still surprising how many things you can interrupt and the boss didn’t even look like he was doing anything.
Many bosses will indeed turn away from you and go slap some random group member around harder than he hits you even. Keeps things interesting don’t ya think!0 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.5 -
lolli42✭✭✭Well tanks are not supposed to pwn
But i would like to have a mass agro at least xD
Edited by lolli42 on March 19, 2019 9:47PM2 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well tanks are not supposed to pwn
But i would like to have a mass agro at least xD
Shrug, works fine for the games which allow tanks to do decent damage, and it results in more people playing tanks. no one wants to play a class which cant kill anything.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.2 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
If this was the case in ESO a lot of content (all content) would become extremely easy because you could just run 4 or 12 tanks doing almost as much DPS as a full DPS group but being 10x tankier.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x21 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are boss mechanics where the boss will target a random group member. If it is serious damage then that damage is avoidable and is on the DD or healer if they eat a one shot.
Without a specific fight it hard to suggest what is really going on.Well tanks are not supposed to pwn
But i would like to have a mass agro at least xD
This comment does not seem to fit with what is being said in the OP. Especially if I assume it is to mean an AoE taunt, it really would not help with a boss mechanic. It certainly is not needed in the game. Every group content has been tanked and tanked well without an AoE taunt.
Again, that is if the person is speaking of an AoE taunt, but since it does not fit with the challenge they mention in the OP it is questionable what they mean here.0 -
lolli42✭✭✭Yea i was just answering to that guys offtopic thing
I would love to take the 1 shots!!!
Because for me they are just some scratches0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭well most bosses have mechanics with some of their attacks wich will attack just anyone besides it is tanked
and as you are asking what tanks are supposed to do in this game..in this game mostly it is about boosting your group, group dps via debuffing enemies and keeping buufs on mates as besides this tank realy have nothing to do than just holding block and using taunt sometimes to keep enemies on him0 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lassitershawn wrote: »Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
If this was the case in ESO a lot of content (all content) would become extremely easy because you could just run 4 or 12 tanks doing almost as much DPS as a full DPS group but being 10x tankier.
I mean since ESO doesn't really have many mechanics... not compared to that game. but what's the alternative? Making tanking boring and lame that's what.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.1 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Yes, places like Spindleclutch can be annoying.
However, it's not only the job of the others in your group to bring a boss down more quickly, but also to stay out of danger themselves. Like, what can you do, if someone stands in a cleave? Nothing of course, so don't worry about things like that, not everyone's death is on you.You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lassitershawn wrote: »Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
If this was the case in ESO a lot of content (all content) would become extremely easy because you could just run 4 or 12 tanks doing almost as much DPS as a full DPS group but being 10x tankier.
I mean since ESO doesn't really have many mechanics... not compared to that game. but what's the alternative? Making tanking boring and lame that's what.
So being a DD is fun?
If you don't like the PvE mechanics, just try PvP... there are tanks that kill you in a couple of seconds.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
armeegrun✭✭I find PVE tank to be enjoyable as it takes a certain amount of attentiveness to what is going on to be successful.
First, get AGRO, turn the boss, try to AGRO adds if you can, keep an eye on the health bars of the others in your group, if the healer starts to loose health, could be an add or something is AGRO'd on them, taunt it to you, help them out so they can focus on their task, healing the Damage Dealers.
I've played so many, random dungeons with random tanks that don't even bother to try and turn a boss, or get them to an area for easier "killin" by the Damage Dealers. Ive seen many not even try to block and incoming heavy from the boss, they try and just stand through it, then complain for the healer to do a better job. I say, if you can block or side step, do it, why make the healer waste resources on you when its not necessary.
However, I have seen numerous PVP tanks now that can get some great kills, and that looks like it would be enjoyable game play as well. It's all up to your play style.0 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
Why would anyone be dps in that game then1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
Why would anyone be dps in that game then
This only applies to Warrior Tanks and is still weaker than even the weakest DPS by about 500 points, which is a fairly substantial amount in FFXIV considering that some DPS checks are really cut close enough that it would be impossible for a Warrior team to actually win. This is also excluding that most DPS have utility that boost group DPS, such as Dragoon giving extra piercing damage for Bard and Machinists. FFXIV class dynamic is much more polished ESO as DPS in that game feed off each other. Monk is the highest DPS in the game but no one wants a Monk in their party because the class is largely a selfish class, offering the least amount of group utility with Brotherhood (5% extra damage for everyone) and Mantra (30% increased healing received for everyone). DPS slots are usually reserved for Dragoon, whom as stated boost Bard and Machinists, as well as give 10% extra Crit damage, Ninja that increases the damage a target takes by 10%, Bard, that also increases Crit damage + Restores resources and Machinists that also increase target damage taken + Restore Resources.Argonian forever0 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
Why would anyone be dps in that game then
This only applies to Warrior Tanks and is still weaker than even the weakest DPS by about 500 points, which is a fairly substantial amount in FFXIV considering that some DPS checks are really cut close enough that it would be impossible for a Warrior team to actually win. This is also excluding that most DPS have utility that boost group DPS, such as Dragoon giving extra piercing damage for Bard and Machinists. FFXIV class dynamic is much more polished ESO as DPS in that game feed off each other. Monk is the highest DPS in the game but no one wants a Monk in their party because the class is largely a selfish class, offering the least amount of group utility with Brotherhood (5% extra damage for everyone) and Mantra (30% increased healing received for everyone). DPS slots are usually reserved for Dragoon, whom as stated boost Bard and Machinists, as well as give 10% extra Crit damage, Ninja that increases the damage a target takes by 10%, Bard, that also increases Crit damage + Restores resources and Machinists that also increase target damage taken + Restore Resources.
So it's a fairly substantial difference but it's almost as much. Got it.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You describe this jumping toward other players. This brings up a good point that some tanking (to a small degree) needs to be done by other members in the group. The second spider boss in Spindleclutch 1 comes to mind. It typically maintains aggro on the tank but will sometimes pick another member and jump toward them. Smart groups will anticipate this and fight that encounter in close combat, making the jump have less of an impact on dps. If the group spreads out all over, then dps drops as the boss jumps out of it to reach distant party members. Sometimes other roles have some tanking responsibilities that can help speed up fights and make them easier overall.0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
Why would anyone be dps in that game then
This only applies to Warrior Tanks and is still weaker than even the weakest DPS by about 500 points, which is a fairly substantial amount in FFXIV considering that some DPS checks are really cut close enough that it would be impossible for a Warrior team to actually win. This is also excluding that most DPS have utility that boost group DPS, such as Dragoon giving extra piercing damage for Bard and Machinists. FFXIV class dynamic is much more polished ESO as DPS in that game feed off each other. Monk is the highest DPS in the game but no one wants a Monk in their party because the class is largely a selfish class, offering the least amount of group utility with Brotherhood (5% extra damage for everyone) and Mantra (30% increased healing received for everyone). DPS slots are usually reserved for Dragoon, whom as stated boost Bard and Machinists, as well as give 10% extra Crit damage, Ninja that increases the damage a target takes by 10%, Bard, that also increases Crit damage + Restores resources and Machinists that also increase target damage taken + Restore Resources.
So it's a fairly substantial difference but it's almost as much. Got it.
Ok, I was operating under old data and it looks like a lot has changed since when I last took part in parses. It actually looks like Warrior is a lot lower than the 500 I had spitballed earlier so I'll just post the statistics from the 25th percentile, the 50th percentile, the 75th percentile and the best players in FFXIV as of the past 2 weeks and let you see how everything stands.
25th:
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/25/#class=Any&dataset=25&boss=64
50th:
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/25/#class=Any&dataset=50&boss=64
75th:
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/25/#class=Any&boss=64
Max:
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/25/#class=Any&boss=64&dataset=100
Warrior averages at about 5-6.5k DPS whereas the weakest DPS of each tier is always about 1-1.5k DPS ahead of that. Ofc, in comparison to ESO where the DPS difference between Tanks and DPS can reach over 50k+, 1-2k sounds like nothing.Argonian forever0 -
DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭Another utility for a tank: location location location.
Both for tightly packing mobs (aka trash compactor) as keeping the boss on the ground aoe's that your allies set up, or taking them to AoE for some mechanic (like shock warden in Moon Hunter Keep, bring the enraged boss to the shock warden aoe or die).
If you want a fight that is a tank test, there are 3 I can think of from the top of my head:
Rizzuk and Avalanche on Frostvaul vet: Avalanche is brutal and must be taken 1 on 1 by the tank in a kind of ice arena, no one can eat such huge damage.
Hiath the Battlemaster on vDSA: this boss will spawn arena's other previous bosses and the tank must take them all away from the dps while they continue to beat on the boss.
Negatrix and Positrix fight on Halls of Fabrication: this requires 2 well coordinated tanks to spin around the bosses while creating a beam to short circuit dangerous adds, otherwise they deal too much damage and wipe the group.
There are certainly more tank intensive fights in the game, but these are IMO fights that are neither boring or easy for tanks.0 -
shack80✭✭✭Honestly would it not be quite boring if when taunted the bosses only hit the tank. That would basically be the same than you hitting the dummy. There's no point in that so it is good they have mechanics that every role need to be aware of.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lassitershawn wrote: »Tanking in FFXIV: Oh hey cool I'm doing almost as much damage as that dps over there WHILE holding aggro and mitigating damage and positioning the boss correctly!
Tanking in ESO: Oh hey cool I can hold block and never be able to kill anything on my own!
If this was the case in ESO a lot of content (all content) would become extremely easy because you could just run 4 or 12 tanks doing almost as much DPS as a full DPS group but being 10x tankier.
I mean since ESO doesn't really have many mechanics... not compared to that game. but what's the alternative? Making tanking boring and lame that's what.
Someone who says ESO does not really have mechanics I have to ask what is the toughest content you have done? vSO, vMoL, vHoF, vCR+X? HM of any of those?
Because there are very real mechanics there that the tanks need to deal with. Especially in HM. I cannot fathom someone saying vMoL HM Rakkhat or vHoF Reassembly Committee do not really have mechanics. That is not even getting into vCR+3.1