TOTAL DARK IS UTTERLY BROKEN

Pyr0xyrecuprotite · February 2019

BTW, from my experience as a Magplar, that skill is really hard to use in BGs.

You can't cast it if there is an elevation difference, nor if the target is CC immune, and you also can't cast it if the target is moving too fast - the targetting AI is weak. Other skills are much easier to use. That said, my glass cannon tooltip indicates 9531 damage each time the target uses a "direct damage attack". With resistances and battle spirit, yes, that's probably about 4k damage each time in BGs, if the target doesn't break free.

BTW, on my Magplar, a lot of skills are reflectable by DK wings - I usually die fast to most DKs who know what they are doing.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

Neoauspex wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

"Just CC break". LOL. You mean spam CC break while my character stands there doing nothing before dying in the inevitable burst combo?

Minno wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

And again, 2 templars in a team spam this ***, one is not even morphed yet.

By the time break free i get instant 10k damage just from those 2 skills... i play pvp for 3 years now, and have never had an issue against pple using this skill in bgs, because its damage was not that high and had time to react.

you died to unstable core not total dark. First dmg was you hitting yourself, second was the AOE burst.
First dmg is higher (was buffed in clockwork city by 67% to account with a weird GCD mechanic).

CC break, reposition, heal. As Arya said, the DK armor is mistakenly procing the ability.

... Yes Arya was the first person to point that out in this thread...

But I guess the other two posts were just glossed over.

This is one of the least broken CCs in the game in terms of being able to break it. The difference is you have to wait for your gcd to cool down, unlike a hard CC that resets your gcd.

Cannot agree with that statement. This is the most buggy CC in my experience, only thing semi comparable is reverb. Even Draining Shot which wouldn't allow me to break free until I land, I could break free immediately once landing which made it easy to adjust to.

Total Dark may allow me to break free now or in 3 sec, whether I actually have cast a skill and am waiting on the global CD, or whether I am standing there doing nothing but spamming break free. It's completely unreliable, of course if I jump on my NB I only have to worry about breaking free, as opposed to the DK where I get melted if I don't start dodge rolling.

Emma_Overload · February 2019

DKs complaining about a spell that REFLECTS DAMAGE????

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!

DeathStalker_X · February 2019

What's with the "Total Dark" vs "Eclipse"? We should at least use the same term.

As a Templar myself, I haven't found Eclipse to be all that effective - maybe in PvP against a physically attacking opponent - but I don't see the game opponents using physical attacks frequently enough for this to do that much damage.

therift · February 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DKs complaining about a spell that REFLECTS DAMAGE????

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!

Omg this is too good not to repost

Joy_Division · February 2019

RouDeR wrote: »

And again, 2 templars in a team spam this ***, one is not even morphed yet.

By the time break free i get instant 10k damage just from those 2 skills... i play pvp for 3 years now, and have never had an issue against pple using this skill in bgs, because its damage was not that high and had time to react.

The way your are describing the spell demonstrates you don;t know what it does.

That's 1 Templar. It doesn't matter if there are 20 templars. you can only be under the effect of one eclipse at a time and when the spell ends, you cannot be eclipsed again for 7 seconds at a minimum. The "Eclipse" damage means even though you were hit with the debuff, you decided to attack your opponent instead of breaking free. Eclipse does zero damage if the target does zero direct damage against an opponent. The "Unstable Core" damage is because the player chose the particular morph that does damage when the spell's duration ends.

As the templar was able to get out 4 jabs in-between these events, that shows you fought a prolonged time time while debuffed instead of using the easy and correct counter of CC break. and don;t tell me you could not CC break because by the moment you get eclipsed, you are giving CC immunity, which is a huge weakness with Eclipse.

And announcing you're a heavy armor DK does not automatically make you a tank with high resistances. 5 piece heavy is about a default of 15K spell resistance, which mitigates 23% of damage. 5 piece light is about 11K resistance, which mitigates 17%. So 6% difference, which is subject to diminishing returns via Battlespirit, CP, defensive buffs, etc.

It's one of the few abilities in ESO where the game forces you to actually take the time and action to counter it rather than literally taking control away of your character and giving you a pop-up of what to do next: "Press [bound key] to CC break."

kojou · February 2019

I've been using Total Dark in Cyrodiil quite a bit lately... I hadn't noticed anyone have trouble breaking free from it though. I use it to interrupt a player's burst combo. It works pretty well for that.

I also use it a lot on the resource guards because the healing from it is pretty good and they don't break free from it.

It also combines well with Purifying Light.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DKs complaining about a spell that REFLECTS DAMAGE????

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!

If someone puts wings up I'm not forced to attack them. With Eclipse(either morph) I cannot very well remove Spiked Armor, I can try and break free and hope I get to do so before they get their burst off on me.

Spiked Armor deals direct damage based on melee damage dealt to the attacker with no CD. Eclipse deals damage for each "attack" with no CD between damage ticks. Sweeps deals 4 attacks in 1 second which proc Spiked Armor. It's not hard to see where this is going.

Joy_Division · February 2019

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DKs complaining about a spell that REFLECTS DAMAGE????

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!

If someone puts wings up I'm not forced to attack them. With Eclipse(either morph) I cannot very well remove Spiked Armor, I can try and break free and hope I get to do so before they get their burst off on me.

Spiked Armor deals direct damage based on melee damage dealt to the attacker with no CD. Eclipse deals damage for each "attack" with no CD between damage ticks. Sweeps deals 4 attacks in 1 second which proc Spiked Armor. It's not hard to see where this is going.

No you can't. But you so much want that damage (which is not melee, it procs off any direct damage) from spiked armor with no consequences to tick away on your opponents that you have zero consideration of taking the other morph.

But as your signature says, templars are evil so who cares that Eclipse is only as good as the target makes it to be and it suffers from a huge weakness of not actually CCing you despite granting immunity (which can potentially last longer than an immovable potion). Nerf that skill (but keep fossilize, which acts as a crazy double CC that cannot be dodged or blocked and is completely brainless to use).

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

And again, 2 templars in a team spam this ***, one is not even morphed yet.

By the time break free i get instant 10k damage just from those 2 skills... i play pvp for 3 years now, and have never had an issue against pple using this skill in bgs, because its damage was not that high and had time to react.

The way your are describing the spell demonstrates you don;t know what it does.

That's 1 Templar. It doesn't matter if there are 20 templars. you can only be under the effect of one eclipse at a time and when the spell ends, you cannot be eclipsed again for 7 seconds at a minimum. The "Eclipse" damage means even though you were hit with the debuff, you decided to attack your opponent instead of breaking free. Eclipse does zero damage if the target does zero direct damage against an opponent. The "Unstable Core" damage is because the player chose the particular morph that does damage when the spell's duration ends.

As the templar was able to get out 4 jabs in-between these events, that shows you fought a prolonged time time while debuffed instead of using the easy and correct counter of CC break. and don;t tell me you could not CC break because by the moment you get eclipsed, you are giving CC immunity, which is a huge weakness with Eclipse.

And announcing you're a heavy armor DK does not automatically make you a tank with high resistances. 5 piece heavy is about a default of 15K spell resistance, which mitigates 23% of damage. 5 piece light is about 11K resistance, which mitigates 17%. So 6% difference, which is subject to diminishing returns via Battlespirit, CP, defensive buffs, etc.

It's one of the few abilities in ESO where the game forces you to actually take the time and action to counter it rather than literally taking control away of your character and giving you a pop-up of what to do next: "Press [bound key] to CC break."

Come on now you know that's not how that works. Death recap is only to show scale of damage from the skill. Death Recap is extremely faulty when you try and line it up directly with what hit you, which is why people use other addons to actually look at how they died.

Also please, Sweep does 4 attacks over 1.1 second, that would be exactly 1 sweep. The only one that could be related to time would be the werewolf dot, however even that is going to show all dot ticks not the order in which they happened.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DKs complaining about a spell that REFLECTS DAMAGE????

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!

If someone puts wings up I'm not forced to attack them. With Eclipse(either morph) I cannot very well remove Spiked Armor, I can try and break free and hope I get to do so before they get their burst off on me.

Spiked Armor deals direct damage based on melee damage dealt to the attacker with no CD. Eclipse deals damage for each "attack" with no CD between damage ticks. Sweeps deals 4 attacks in 1 second which proc Spiked Armor. It's not hard to see where this is going.

No you can't. But you so much want that damage (which is not melee, it procs off any direct damage) from spiked armor with no consequences to tick away on your opponents that you have zero consideration of taking the other morph.

But as your signature says, templars are evil so who cares that Eclipse is only as good as the target makes it to be and it suffers from a huge weakness of not actually CCing you despite granting immunity (which can potentially last longer than an immovable potion). Nerf that skill (but keep fossilize, which acts as a crazy double CC that cannot be dodged or blocked and is completely brainless to use).

All morphs of Spiked Armor deal damage to the attacker. I use Hardened Armor, please slow you roll and consider the game as it exists.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

I'm not saying Eclipse is broken versus anything except spiked armor. I find it is buggy to break free, but it is the broken burst related to spiked armor that is devastating when combined. Just because someone has spiked armor up does not mean you are going to attack them with Eclipse up and force the issue, but some Templars are doing so on the regular.

itscompton · February 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

As a magblade, I want a total dark to place on Mr Flappy.

J/K, please overlook and carry on.

This really sounds interesting, does this even work?

A DK with wings is struck with Eclipse. Now someone fires a projectile at the DK, it gets reflected and the DK gets damage from Eclipse?

Bingo!

The question is if this is already working or if this is wishful thinking?

It works like that now on console.

Yiko · February 2019

I tested parts of this ability the other day.

It seems that the Eclipse damage has an activation cooldown on its target.

Using a Light Attack with 2H alone would proc one instance of the damage.
Using Surprise Attack would proc one instance of the damage.
Using a Light Attack into a Surprise Attack would proc one instance of the damage, from the initial hit.
Using multiple ranged Light Attacks from close range would not proc the damage in every instance. I assume that also applies to melee Light Attack spam.
I believe after a certain range or certain amount of extended time spacing between Light Attacks, the damage would activate every time.

The thing that confused me most was using a Light Attack into a Surprise Attack into an intended Bash would initiate the CC break process for Eclipse, which wasn't instantaneous. The Bash of course didn't go off, since it uses the same keybind as CC break; my character just had to wait for the GCD of the Surprise Attack (I assume) to end before the Eclipse could be broken. I couldn't use any other abilities in the meantime IIRC, and I'm not sure what would have happened if I Roll Dodged or Bar Swapped to cancel it. I need to test it further, but I'd appreciate anyone's input if they already know. I feel like this is why people are referring to this ability as "buggy," or the fact that it can be active on a target during CC immunity, last I checked.

Also curious if my testing is consistent with how DK's Volatile Armor reflected damage activates Eclipse. Is there a CD for the Eclipse damage there also? I imagine there is.

russelmmendoza · February 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DKs complaining about a spell that REFLECTS DAMAGE????

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SERVES YOU RIGHT.

Savos_Saren · February 2019

itscompton wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

As a magblade, I want a total dark to place on Mr Flappy.

J/K, please overlook and carry on.

This really sounds interesting, does this even work?

A DK with wings is struck with Eclipse. Now someone fires a projectile at the DK, it gets reflected and the DK gets damage from Eclipse?

Bingo!

The question is if this is already working or if this is wishful thinking?

It works like that now on console.

If this is the case- then it's a double reflect... which isn't supposed to be in the game. Otherwise- you'd have DKs playing ping pong all day. The same with anyone using the Sword and Board abilities that reflect.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

As a magblade, I want a total dark to place on Mr Flappy.

J/K, please overlook and carry on.

This really sounds interesting, does this even work?

A DK with wings is struck with Eclipse. Now someone fires a projectile at the DK, it gets reflected and the DK gets damage from Eclipse?

Bingo!

The question is if this is already working or if this is wishful thinking?

It works like that now on console.

If this is the case- then it's a double reflect... which isn't supposed to be in the game. Otherwise- you'd have DKs playing ping pong all day. The same with anyone using the Sword and Board abilities that reflect.

Not quite, the skill was changed awhile back. Eclipse behavior is similar in a way to Spiked Armor now. It does not reflect damage but rather deals damage back if direct damage is dealt.

The damage dealt back is not a reflection of the damage dealt. Which is why a 140 damage tick from Spiked Armor causes a 3-4k Eclipse tick.

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

They should probably call it "Pin-Prick Armor", as the damage it deals to others is pathetic and it is more likely to result in them dealing damage back at you.

fullheartcontainer · February 2019

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Does spiked armor damage return still procs total dark? because thats just not fair

Oh no, DKs that have *** WINGS THAT CAN MAKE ENTIRE CERTAIN CLASSES AND BUILDS NOT BE ABLE TO HIT YOU have a single ability they can't use all the time because a templar could TD it

I'm so broken up over it

itscompton · February 2019

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

As a magblade, I want a total dark to place on Mr Flappy.

J/K, please overlook and carry on.

This really sounds interesting, does this even work?

A DK with wings is struck with Eclipse. Now someone fires a projectile at the DK, it gets reflected and the DK gets damage from Eclipse?

Bingo!

The question is if this is already working or if this is wishful thinking?

It works like that now on console.

If this is the case- then it's a double reflect... which isn't supposed to be in the game. Otherwise- you'd have DKs playing ping pong all day. The same with anyone using the Sword and Board abilities that reflect.

Not quite, the skill was changed awhile back. Eclipse behavior is similar in a way to Spiked Armor now. It does not reflect damage but rather deals damage back if direct damage is dealt.

The damage dealt back is not a reflection of the damage dealt. Which is why a 140 damage tick from Spiked Armor causes a 3-4k Eclipse tick.

Of course the flip side of that is if a Sorc hits the Templar with a 10K frag the Templar takes the 10K and the Sorc takes only 3-4 in return from the bubble. That's why I can't believe anyone would take the morph that doesn't heal you, without it you almost always take a lot more damage than the bubble gives back and give them CC immunity to boot.

Toc de Malsvi · March 2019

Yiko wrote: »

I tested parts of this ability the other day.

It seems that the Eclipse damage has an activation cooldown on its target.

Using a Light Attack with 2H alone would proc one instance of the damage.
Using Surprise Attack would proc one instance of the damage.
Using a Light Attack into a Surprise Attack would proc one instance of the damage, from the initial hit.
Using multiple ranged Light Attacks from close range would not proc the damage in every instance. I assume that also applies to melee Light Attack spam.
I believe after a certain range or certain amount of extended time spacing between Light Attacks, the damage would activate every time.

The thing that confused me most was using a Light Attack into a Surprise Attack into an intended Bash would initiate the CC break process for Eclipse, which wasn't instantaneous. The Bash of course didn't go off, since it uses the same keybind as CC break; my character just had to wait for the GCD of the Surprise Attack (I assume) to end before the Eclipse could be broken. I couldn't use any other abilities in the meantime IIRC, and I'm not sure what would have happened if I Roll Dodged or Bar Swapped to cancel it. I need to test it further, but I'd appreciate anyone's input if they already know. I feel like this is why people are referring to this ability as "buggy," or the fact that it can be active on a target during CC immunity, last I checked.

Also curious if my testing is consistent with how DK's Volatile Armor reflected damage activates Eclipse. Is there a CD for the Eclipse damage there also? I imagine there is.

@Yiko
@Joy_Division

I finally got around to some testing of this again, sorry I didn't have the time to post a video sooner.

I am not sure there is a CD, I tested it with a buddy and it appears to have 4 procs in 3 seconds. We did determine that there is some CD per attack type/source. Keep in mind the templar attacking is wearing tank sets, has terrible damage, and is not good at weaving which can be seen by the combo. However by stacking 4 different attacks: Purifying Light, Light attack, Puncturing Sweep, and Crescent Sweep we were able to get 4 procs in 3 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YITBJ7pABTQ

Notice first proc is at 4 seconds and last is at 7 seconds in the video, because the video/game isn't perfect I could see there possibly being a 1 second CD where lag made it appear to happen in less than 4 seconds total. But it definitely is possible to get multiple procs off spiked armor without the spiked armor(either morph) user attacking at all.

I was not able to test if the proc CD was shared between multiple attackers, I think it might not be as my own experience suggests otherwise. In my experience if you get focused by two players and they actively push you during Eclipse you will go down extremely fast.

Toc de Malsvi · March 2019

@Neoauspex
Also as to the: "It's on the global CD, just stop what you are doing and break free"

Here is a clip of the bug related to breaking free that I routinely encounter with Eclipse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMufWA3UK9k

I am not doing anything but trying to break free and although I am losing stamina I cannot break free and eventually dodge roll out of frustration. The roll buys me a second or two more but I drop anyways. Which is why I say its often better to just spam roll.

marius_buys · March 2019

What DK's not 1vX'ing with zero skill?Tsk, such a shame.

Datthaw · March 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DKs complaining about a spell that REFLECTS DAMAGE????

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!

^

Toc de Malsvi · March 2019

1: "Here's a bug that exists"

2: "DK's have no skill"

3: "Wings is unfair DK's shouldn't complain"

Druid40 · March 2019

It is kind of broken in lag. It can show up late even though the effect is on you. You do 2 or 3 attacks and then it finally shows. The break free is also buggy at times (most times). Not to excuse it, but there are a few skills like that. It would be hard to fix without ruining the ability or significantly reducing latency. I am hoping for the latter.

AbysmalGhul · March 2019

I find this thread ironic