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Tzogvin for magicka
JinMori
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Do it.
Only thing, replace pen with max magicka or spell damage, personally i would prefer max magicka, but that's because i love having big pools, and don;t wanna be under 43k, but that's just me.
Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2019 7:24PM Only thing, replace pen with max magicka or spell damage, personally i would prefer max magicka, but that's because i love having big pools, and don;t wanna be under 43k, but that's just me.
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WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, do it. I’d prefer to keep the Spell Pen, but move it to the 3pc instead of the 4pc bonus (putting Spell Crit as the 4pc).0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Yes, do it. I’d prefer to keep the Spell Pen, but move it to the 3pc instead of the 4pc bonus (putting Spell Crit as the 4pc).
The reason why i said magicka or spell, is because magicka does not have the pen problem that stam has, and also cp diminishing return.
Pen is the best if you are not at cap, that is true, but there are a few factors to keep in mind.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2019 9:29PM1 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeYes please.PC EU
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JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2019 9:37PM0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
Magicka AY sounds very tempting. Maybe replacing the Destructive Mage set that nobody uses (also from HRC, so that would be fitting).3 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
Magicka AY sounds very tempting. Maybe replacing the Destructive Mage set that nobody uses (also from HRC, so that would be fitting).
Some people may argue that it would become repetitive to have identical sets for mag or stam, but honestly, who cares as long as it's fun? It's not like they are the same thing as classes.
And for me tzog, or ay mag, would be very fun and useful, and i am really tired of mother sorrow to be honest.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2019 9:49PM0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
The difference is 710 crit and 129wd/1487pen
Still pretty significant of a difference for stam since trap is already a pretty good dot.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
The difference is 710 crit and 129wd/1487pen
Still pretty significant of a difference for stam since trap is already a pretty good dot.
You mean, ay will do much more damage than tzogvin? because i can assure you it does not, the damage is close, it is in favor of ay, but not by much.
On stamblade pts i got 54 average on ay, and 53 on tzog.
That's because since you can now drop trap, you can use another skill in it's place, like rending, and keep it up 100% with no issues.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2019 10:18PM0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
The difference is 710 crit and 129wd/1487pen
Still pretty significant of a difference for stam since trap is already a pretty good dot.
You mean, ay will do much more damage than tzogvin? because i can assure you it does not, the damage is close, it is in favor of ay, but not by much.
On stamblade pts i got 54 average on ay, and 53 on tzog.
That's because since you can now drop trap, you can use another skill in it's place, like rending, and keep it up 100% with no issues.
Did you adjust your pen to account for the bonus? Also you weren't using rending already?Edited by Oakmontowls_ESO on March 12, 2019 10:22PM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
The difference is 710 crit and 129wd/1487pen
Still pretty significant of a difference for stam since trap is already a pretty good dot.
You mean, ay will do much more damage than tzogvin? because i can assure you it does not, the damage is close, it is in favor of ay, but not by much.
On stamblade pts i got 54 average on ay, and 53 on tzog.
That's because since you can now drop trap, you can use another skill in it's place, like rending, and keep it up 100% with no issues.
Did you adjust your pen to account for the bonus?
To be honest, no, but the difference in max hit and average was not much.
In any case, the difference will not be over 1 to 2%.
And tzog, would probably work even better for magicka compared to stam.
And it's really damn fun.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2019 10:31PM0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am loving tzogvin on my stamden and would love a mag version. It is not OP, not even BiS, but it is fun and easy to use, and I love having the extra slot to play around with. Great for slotting lotus or vigor. Skill slots are so limited in this game, any set that frees up a skill slot for you has at least some situational use.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am loving tzogvin on my stamden and would love a mag version. It is not OP, not even BiS, but it is fun and easy to use, and I love having the extra slot to play around with. Great for slotting lotus or vigor. Skill slots are so limited in this game, any set that frees up a skill slot for you has at least some situational use.
it's not op, but definitely not far from bis, it's second close to ay, for frontbar ofc.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2019 11:02PM0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am loving tzogvin on my stamden and would love a mag version. It is not OP, not even BiS, but it is fun and easy to use, and I love having the extra slot to play around with. Great for slotting lotus or vigor. Skill slots are so limited in this game, any set that frees up a skill slot for you has at least some situational use.
it's not op, but definitely not far from bis, it's second close to ay, for frontbar ofc.
It is about 3.5% less crit than ay and you are trading weapon dmg for pen, though more crit carries over to the back bar as ay has a crit piece so you lose that crit over the back bar, stacks are more easily maintained, and you gain a slot if you primarily use channeled for force, but you lose pen backbar.0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not sure of your point, you are basically agreeing with me. Point is, it is balanced. So, yes, let’s also get it for mag pretty please.0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeWrathOfInnos wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
Magicka AY sounds very tempting. Maybe replacing the Destructive Mage set that nobody uses (also from HRC, so that would be fitting).
I actually don't want AY equivalent, I'd rather have tzogvin since it would free up a bar slot for trap/channeled. Either that or make twilight remedy great... 10 seconds of force with a 20 second synergy cooldown is just pitiful, the duration should at least match the one from olorime.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA1 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭magicka version of AY would also be nice tbh....
maybe even tied to meelerange, as a buff to meele magicka builds, which are still underperforming compared to ranged, and meele stambuilds.
magicka version of thogvinz also sounds neat, dunno if needed, since we already have acceleration...which in terms might become useless then
PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
The difference is 710 crit and 129wd/1487pen
Still pretty significant of a difference for stam since trap is already a pretty good dot.
Just as an aside, I think that if you (in order to keep penetration the same) were to run Tzogvin's with precise off hand (where with AY it'd be sharpened), then net difference between AY and Tzogvin's would roughly be 129 weapon damage, I think it's a minor trade-off for higher uptime on stacks and Minor Force.0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeSaintSubwayy wrote: »magicka version of AY would also be nice tbh....
maybe even tied to meelerange, as a buff to meele magicka builds, which are still underperforming compared to ranged, and meele stambuilds.
magicka version of thogvinz also sounds neat, dunno if needed, since we already have acceleration...which in terms might become useless then
Why not both? People who want to use channeled/trap can use the AY equivalent and the rest can use the tzogvin thing. Everyone happy
No for real, twilight remedy should be useful enough to justify using it so healers get more options...PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »magicka version of AY would also be nice tbh....
maybe even tied to meelerange, as a buff to meele magicka builds, which are still underperforming compared to ranged, and meele stambuilds.
magicka version of thogvinz also sounds neat, dunno if needed, since we already have acceleration...which in terms might become useless then
Why not both? People who want to use channeled/trap can use the AY equivalent and the rest can use the tzogvin thing. Everyone happy
No for real, twilight remedy should be useful enough to justify using it so healers get more options...
well didnt state it in my initial post. but the idea is to have the AY equivalent to be tied to meele dmg, while Tzogvins equivalient might be tied to la (meele or ranged)PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dont think they want something like Tzogvin for magicka because of how obvious choice to use it it would be. You get crit (always lacking on mag) an you get minor force most mag builds get only by casting channeled no damage magicka costing skill. Its far lesser sacrifice (if any) to use it over stam where you sacrifice AY + trap (aka skill doing damage with useful passives).
Kinda like how stupidly obvious would weapon strategist be.Edited by SodanTok on March 13, 2019 2:27PM0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
Magicka AY sounds very tempting. Maybe replacing the Destructive Mage set that nobody uses (also from HRC, so that would be fitting).
I actually don't want AY equivalent, I'd rather have tzogvin since it would free up a bar slot for trap/channeled. Either that or make twilight remedy great... 10 seconds of force with a 20 second synergy cooldown is just pitiful, the duration should at least match the one from olorime.
@Masel Agreed Twilight Remedy could use a buff. I like the concept of that set, but it just isn’t enough to justify dropping a different healer set. If it was more like 30s, it would be comparable to Olorime in usefulness, and would likely replace Jorvulds in trials where there are mostly Magicka DPS.
That being said, I do already see better DPS results with Twilight Remedy than Channeled Acceleration. I think this is because casting Accel means skipping 2 Ele Weapon, 1 Light Attack, and 1/5 of a Spell Charge. On Nightblades it also mean giving up 1/5 of a bow proc and 1 Siphoning Attacks Resource Restore. That’s a pretty big list of sacrifices for the ~4% damage increase. Giving up none of those things, in exchange for 50% uptime is worth it. However in raids that uptime isn’t realistically 10/20s, it’s more like 10/30 or 10/40 so a duration increase would be very nice.Edited by WrathOfInnos on March 13, 2019 3:42PM0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeWrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
Magicka AY sounds very tempting. Maybe replacing the Destructive Mage set that nobody uses (also from HRC, so that would be fitting).
I actually don't want AY equivalent, I'd rather have tzogvin since it would free up a bar slot for trap/channeled. Either that or make twilight remedy great... 10 seconds of force with a 20 second synergy cooldown is just pitiful, the duration should at least match the one from olorime.
@Masel Agreed Twilight Remedy could use a buff. I like the concept of that set, but it just isn’t enough to justify dropping a different healer set. If it was more like 30s, it would be comparable to Olorime in usefulness, and would likely replace Jorvulds in trials where there are mostly Magicka DPS.
That being said, I do already see better DPS results with Twilight Remedy than Channeled Acceleration. I think this is because casting Accel means skipping 2 Ele Weapon, 1 Light Attack, and 1/5 of a Spell Charge. On Nightblades it also mean giving up 1/5 of a bow proc and 1 Siphoning Attacks Resource Restore. That’s a pretty big list of sacrifices for the ~4% damage increase. Giving up none of those things, in exchange for 50% uptime is worth it. However in raids that uptime isn’t realistically 10/20s, it’s more like 10/30 or 10/40 so a duration increase would be very nice.
Yeah teh opportunity cost for channeled is quite high because you lose 2 GCDs,a dn even rearming trap loses you 1 GCD every 4 seconds.
On some magicka classes (such as a mag warden for example) i didnt find it worth slotting at all because there are skills with such high tooltips that castign an additonal one of thes eis gonna provide more than 4% overall. There are some trials that make it worth it though. in CR for example you can cast channeled in between her ports and wont lose anything really.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Interesting but you are losing 634 crit vs mother's sorrow and gaining an extra skill slot
On some mag class that extra skills slot will be worth it.
Keep in mind also, that this buff carry over to backbar, while sorrow does not.
They could also make an ay like magicka set, that would also be interesting.
The damage is extremely close, between tzogvin and ay, i bet it would be the same for mag.
But if they make an ay like set for mag, they should slightly increase the buff duration or it will fall off on some classes.
Infact, make both zos, i would sure use them.
Magicka AY sounds very tempting. Maybe replacing the Destructive Mage set that nobody uses (also from HRC, so that would be fitting).
I actually don't want AY equivalent, I'd rather have tzogvin since it would free up a bar slot for trap/channeled. Either that or make twilight remedy great... 10 seconds of force with a 20 second synergy cooldown is just pitiful, the duration should at least match the one from olorime.
@Masel Agreed Twilight Remedy could use a buff. I like the concept of that set, but it just isn’t enough to justify dropping a different healer set. If it was more like 30s, it would be comparable to Olorime in usefulness, and would likely replace Jorvulds in trials where there are mostly Magicka DPS.
That being said, I do already see better DPS results with Twilight Remedy than Channeled Acceleration. I think this is because casting Accel means skipping 2 Ele Weapon, 1 Light Attack, and 1/5 of a Spell Charge. On Nightblades it also mean giving up 1/5 of a bow proc and 1 Siphoning Attacks Resource Restore. That’s a pretty big list of sacrifices for the ~4% damage increase. Giving up none of those things, in exchange for 50% uptime is worth it. However in raids that uptime isn’t realistically 10/20s, it’s more like 10/30 or 10/40 so a duration increase would be very nice.
Yeah teh opportunity cost for channeled is quite high because you lose 2 GCDs,a dn even rearming trap loses you 1 GCD every 4 seconds.
On some magicka classes (such as a mag warden for example) i didnt find it worth slotting at all because there are skills with such high tooltips that castign an additonal one of thes eis gonna provide more than 4% overall. There are some trials that make it worth it though. in CR for example you can cast channeled in between her ports and wont lose anything really.
Y, this is a big reason why i would really like tzog for magicka, especially on mag sorc, it would allow me to free up 1 very important lot, were i would slot inner light and get a lot more mag, instead of accel.
But i would also really like a mag ver of ay, although i would gravitate towards using tzog, for magicka.0
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