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Abilities/effects that don't need a snare ಠ_ಠ
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Are we nerfing caltrops now? Seriously?
And shrouded daggers? Jabs?
So Its fine for the 41m flying dagger to have snare but the 8m shrouded dagger and melee jabs having one is a problem?
Just what?
I'll be honest with you, whenever I'm snared to death, its always someone with a frost staff spamming snares and roots non stop or its a templar with their gigantic snare field. Both of those need tuning, not the bloody jabs. Please, leave jabs alone.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 12, 2019 7:32AM1 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You get killed more times in a gap closer then it's worth. Frost dosn't snare, Shock either. Ritual doesn't follow someoneI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm okay with all of these abilities as they are. The snares can all be avoided with thoughtful gameplay. Tactics matter in this game and should continue to matter.
I think there needs to be better counters for Magicka builds, that's about it.2 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭You could tell me I'm wrong about some of these, but then you'd be wrong. Here's a concise list of abilities/effects that do not need snare and should have that portion removed or modified. Let me know if I missed anything.
Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweep - in case you didn't know, Templars have a football field sized snare called Sacred Ground.
Sun Fire (all morphs) - see above. Remove snare and increase damage a bit to compensate.
Summon Storm Atronach - this ultimate packs plenty of power and utility without the need for the permasnare. The extra "utility" you gain from abusing the targeting system is enough, the snare is way overkill.
Summon Unstable Familiar (and morphs) - these dumb pets apply the generic "hit from behind" auto-snare that NPC enemies apply. Stahp it.
Permafrost / Northern Storm - reduce from 70% to 30% snare. This ult is way overloaded - it deals mammoth damage and grants AoE Major Protection in addition to all its ancillary effects. AOE... Major Protection. AOE though.
Silver Leash - maybe change it to ONLY apply the snare if the enemy can't be pulled (aka CC immune). Silver Shards is fine.
Shrouded Daggers - it's fine if Flying Blade keeps the snare because it's single target. SD already deals really nice damage to 2 additional targets.
Bombard - the size and damage of the AOE very generous, and the root is incredibly powerful and sometimes abusive in battlegrounds. If players want the snare they can pick Acid Spray.
Razor Caltrops - the 3-second 70% snare needs to get the heck out. The 30% perma-snare is plenty.
Winterborn - the snare is downright nasty. Remove the snare and allow the proc to ignore 20% of enemy spell resistance. It is a very spikey spike after all.
Let's restore some sanity to battlegrounds and let us have a tiny bit more room to breath and fight normally without feeling like we're constantly stuck in waist-deep mud.
I agree with everything u said but u forgot the snare from Assasins Will.0 -
mazeikeen✭✭✭Every time someone gets killed by something in PVP, it needs a nerf.
Endgame is they just remotely delete the game from our hard drives.XBOX-NA / PC-NA
Covenant at heart.5 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »You could tell me I'm wrong about some of these, but then you'd be wrong. Here's a concise list of abilities/effects that do not need snare and should have that portion removed or modified. Let me know if I missed anything.
Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweep - in case you didn't know, Templars have a football field sized snare called Sacred Ground.
Sun Fire (all morphs) - see above. Remove snare and increase damage a bit to compensate.
Summon Storm Atronach - this ultimate packs plenty of power and utility without the need for the permasnare. The extra "utility" you gain from abusing the targeting system is enough, the snare is way overkill.
Summon Unstable Familiar (and morphs) - these dumb pets apply the generic "hit from behind" auto-snare that NPC enemies apply. Stahp it.
Permafrost / Northern Storm - reduce from 70% to 30% snare. This ult is way overloaded - it deals mammoth damage and grants AoE Major Protection in addition to all its ancillary effects. AOE... Major Protection. AOE though.
Silver Leash - maybe change it to ONLY apply the snare if the enemy can't be pulled (aka CC immune). Silver Shards is fine.
Shrouded Daggers - it's fine if Flying Blade keeps the snare because it's single target. SD already deals really nice damage to 2 additional targets.
Bombard - the size and damage of the AOE very generous, and the root is incredibly powerful and sometimes abusive in battlegrounds. If players want the snare they can pick Acid Spray.
Razor Caltrops - the 3-second 70% snare needs to get the heck out. The 30% perma-snare is plenty.
Winterborn - the snare is downright nasty. Remove the snare and allow the proc to ignore 20% of enemy spell resistance. It is a very spikey spike after all.
Let's restore some sanity to battlegrounds and let us have a tiny bit more room to breath and fight normally without feeling like we're constantly stuck in waist-deep mud.
I agree with everything u said but u forgot the snare from Assasins Will.
They already got rid of that a couple patches ago.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Every time someone gets killed by something in PVP, it needs a nerf.
Endgame is they just remotely delete the game from our hard drives.
Snares don't necessarily kill you, they just make the entire experience unenjoyable. I like snares as a combat tactic but they are wayyyyy to prevalent, so much so that that are basically on you 100% in battlegrounds at least.1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Every time someone gets killed by something in PVP, it needs a nerf.
Endgame is they just remotely delete the game from our hard drives.
Snares don't necessarily kill you, they just make the entire experience unenjoyable. I like snares as a combat tactic but they are wayyyyy to prevalent, so much so that that are basically on you 100% in battlegrounds at least.
All the bad things players try to do to opponents are annoying if you don't play around those things and try to counter them. That is, in essence, what's fun in a game like this. It's problem solving.
I've never had a problem with snares or immobilizations on a stam build because I don't rely on the counters. I use them when I need to, but I actively avoid getting snared in the first place. Even without vampirism on a magblade with 10k stam, I didn't have many problems with snares and immobilization because I avoided situations in which I'd be vulnerable and though I couldn't counter snares directly, I added mobility to my build which helped greatly.
So no, being snared isn't fun. Being CC'd isn't fun. Beging ganked isn't fun. Et cetera. But learning out to avoid, counter or mitigate those things is fun.Edited by zyk on March 12, 2019 4:50PM4 -
mazeikeen✭✭✭Snares don't necessarily kill you, they just make the entire experience unenjoyable. I like snares as a combat tactic but they are wayyyyy to prevalent, so much so that that are basically on you 100% in battlegrounds at least.
I meant more in the sense that it can directly contribute to your death, but that would have sounded less snarky
Seriously though, I don't necessarily disagree. Snares are extremely prevalent in PVP. They could definitely get looked at. But for me, snaring that DK who locked me in his sights is the difference between life and death. So if they heavily nerfed snares, I probably wouldn't PVP on many of my characters. Which is probably good news for people who particularly hate nightblades
XBOX-NA / PC-NA
Covenant at heart.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Every time someone gets killed by something in PVP, it needs a nerf.
Endgame is they just remotely delete the game from our hard drives.
Snares don't necessarily kill you, they just make the entire experience unenjoyable. I like snares as a combat tactic but they are wayyyyy to prevalent, so much so that that are basically on you 100% in battlegrounds at least.
All the bad things players try to do to opponents are annoying if you don't play around those things and try to counter them. That is, in essence, what's fun in a game like this. It's problem solving.
I've never had a problem with snares or immobilizations on a stam build because I don't rely on the counters. I use them when I need to, but I actively avoid getting snared in the first place. Even without vampirism on a magblade with 10k stam, I didn't have many problems with snares and immobilization because I avoided situations in which I'd be vulnerable and though I couldn't counter snares directly, I added mobility to my build which helped greatly.
So no, being snared isn't fun. Being CC'd isn't fun. Beging ganked isn't fun. Et cetera. But learning out to avoid, counter or mitigate those things is fun.
Everything you say here makes perfect sense if you are only talking about Cyrodiil. Battlegrounds however are an entirely different monster that negates the entire argument.1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, I don't ever play Battlegrounds, so the only concept I have of its gameplay is the odd time I might watch a stream.Everything you say here makes perfect sense if you are only talking about Cyrodiil. Battlegrounds however are an entirely different monster that negates the entire argument.
Maybe ZOS can implement a BG-specific version of Battlespirit to smooth out some of the differences.1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, I don't ever play Battlegrounds, so the only concept I have of its gameplay is the odd time I might watch a stream.Everything you say here makes perfect sense if you are only talking about Cyrodiil. Battlegrounds however are an entirely different monster that negates the entire argument.
Maybe ZOS can implement a BG-specific version of Battlespirit to smooth out some of the differences.
Well you aren't missing much lol BG gameplay revolves around abusive tactics and crutching on unavoidable mechanics likes snares, Permafrost, DBOS, and spin2win0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Get away your hands from bombard, it's only and last resort of aoe immobilization for templar and NB tanks now.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS, just separate PVP/PVE rule-set already... for how long you need to cripple PVE of any fun due to exploiters in PVP.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Get away your hands from bombard, it's only and last resort of aoe immobilization for templar and NB tanks now.
I didn't say anything about the immobilize on Bombard... That part is fine. You gotta read my words amigo0 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remove snares from catrops? Sure, but also no stabbing with swords or blocking with shields. Then let's remove the resistance from armor and magic from staves.
From Wikipedia: The modern name "caltrop" is derived from the Latin calcitrapa (foot-trap) Full link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop tldr: caltrops are metal spikes that are thrown on the ground to take down horses and chariots. You really don't want to step on these things.
It would make more sense to remove all snares from the game except for caltrops, than it would to remove them from caltrops.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Colecovision wrote: »Remove snares from catrops? Sure, but also no stabbing with swords or blocking with shields. Then let's remove the resistance from armor and magic from staves.
From Wikipedia: The modern name "caltrop" is derived from the Latin calcitrapa (foot-trap) Full link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop tldr: caltrops are metal spikes that are thrown on the ground to take down horses and chariots. You really don't want to step on these things.
It would make more sense to remove all snares from the game except for caltrops, than it would to remove them from caltrops.
I feel like you didn't read what I said...0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agreed with Vamp Bane, Daggers, and Bombard. Nothing ranged should apply a snare. If you already have the range advantage over an opponent (extremely valuable in the current ground AoE+snare meta), then you don't need any further advantages in the form of countermobility.
Nay to stam Jabs nerf. It has enough targeting issues even with the snare attached, and is perfectly reasonable given the risk v. reward trade-off inherent to a melee, channeled skill.
I'm ambivalent about Trops, so I won't pass judgement. I will however point-out that it's not sensible to be anti-Trops while simultaneously failing to mention Frost Wall of Elements. The latter has a larger AoE, double the persistent snare, higher damage ticks, and applies an extremely high uptime of minor main + immobilize, among the strongest non-ult debuffs. It objectively outperforms Trops in every relevant regard.PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Agreed with Vamp Bane, Daggers, and Bombard. Nothing ranged should apply a snare. If you already have the range advantage over an opponent (extremely valuable in the current ground AoE+snare meta), then you don't need any further advantages in the form of countermobility.
Agreed, mostly, except I still think Bombard should keep the immobilize and Acid Spray keep the snare.Nay to stam Jabs nerf. It has enough targeting issues even with the snare attached, and is perfectly reasonable given the risk v. reward trade-off inherent to a melee, channeled skill.
70% is way over the top considering the multiplicative function of snares. Jabs has plenty of synergy with stuns and external snares (like Sacred Ground). I would rather they put something else on the final hit, like a bleed
I'm ambivalent about Trops, so I won't pass judgement. I will however point-out that it's not sensible to be anti-Trops while simultaneously failing to mention Frost Wall of Elements. The latter has a larger AoE, double the persistent snare, higher damage ticks, and applies an extremely high uptime of minor main + immobilize, among the strongest non-ult debuffs. It objectively outperforms Trops in every relevant regard.
Caltrops has a 28+ meter range man. It's completely sensible to say that the 70% snare is way too much. This is in direct conflict with your above comment about ranged snares.
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Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Caltrops snare is very useful to non DK tanks. They just nerfedtime stop, leave caltrops alone.
I assume this post is pvp related? Because after reading it all, all it seems like is you hate being snared... and as we all know, if something gets nerfed you will just complain about the next thing.1 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭Agreed with Vamp Bane, Daggers, and Bombard. Nothing ranged should apply a snare. If you already have the range advantage over an opponent (extremely valuable in the current ground AoE+snare meta), then you don't need any further advantages in the form of countermobility.
Agreed, mostly, except I still think Bombard should keep the immobilize and Acid Spray keep the snare.Nay to stam Jabs nerf. It has enough targeting issues even with the snare attached, and is perfectly reasonable given the risk v. reward trade-off inherent to a melee, channeled skill.
70% is way over the top considering the multiplicative function of snares. Jabs has plenty of synergy with stuns and external snares (like Sacred Ground). I would rather they put something else on the final hit, like a bleedI'm ambivalent about Trops, so I won't pass judgement. I will however point-out that it's not sensible to be anti-Trops while simultaneously failing to mention Frost Wall of Elements. The latter has a larger AoE, double the persistent snare, higher damage ticks, and applies an extremely high uptime of minor main + immobilize, among the strongest non-ult debuffs. It objectively outperforms Trops in every relevant regard.
Caltrops has a 28+ meter range man. It's completely sensible to say that the 70% snare is way too much. This is in direct conflict with your above comment about ranged snares.
That 70% is only for the first 3 seconds. Keeping a high uptime of that 70% snare is extremely expensive. That high range also comes with high expense and low damage. Almost all of caltrops budget is in its utility. Caltrops is one of the most balanced utility skills in this game.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »Agreed with Vamp Bane, Daggers, and Bombard. Nothing ranged should apply a snare. If you already have the range advantage over an opponent (extremely valuable in the current ground AoE+snare meta), then you don't need any further advantages in the form of countermobility.
Agreed, mostly, except I still think Bombard should keep the immobilize and Acid Spray keep the snare.Nay to stam Jabs nerf. It has enough targeting issues even with the snare attached, and is perfectly reasonable given the risk v. reward trade-off inherent to a melee, channeled skill.
70% is way over the top considering the multiplicative function of snares. Jabs has plenty of synergy with stuns and external snares (like Sacred Ground). I would rather they put something else on the final hit, like a bleedI'm ambivalent about Trops, so I won't pass judgement. I will however point-out that it's not sensible to be anti-Trops while simultaneously failing to mention Frost Wall of Elements. The latter has a larger AoE, double the persistent snare, higher damage ticks, and applies an extremely high uptime of minor main + immobilize, among the strongest non-ult debuffs. It objectively outperforms Trops in every relevant regard.
Caltrops has a 28+ meter range man. It's completely sensible to say that the 70% snare is way too much. This is in direct conflict with your above comment about ranged snares.
That 70% is only for the first 3 seconds. Keeping a high uptime of that 70% snare is extremely expensive. That high range also comes with high expense and low damage. Almost all of caltrops budget is in its utility. Caltrops is one of the most balanced utility skills in this game.
Oh really, is that why it's a primary PvE DPS skill for 90%+ of stamina builds? Tell me more about how it's low damage and extremely expensive.1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »Agreed with Vamp Bane, Daggers, and Bombard. Nothing ranged should apply a snare. If you already have the range advantage over an opponent (extremely valuable in the current ground AoE+snare meta), then you don't need any further advantages in the form of countermobility.
Agreed, mostly, except I still think Bombard should keep the immobilize and Acid Spray keep the snare.Nay to stam Jabs nerf. It has enough targeting issues even with the snare attached, and is perfectly reasonable given the risk v. reward trade-off inherent to a melee, channeled skill.
70% is way over the top considering the multiplicative function of snares. Jabs has plenty of synergy with stuns and external snares (like Sacred Ground). I would rather they put something else on the final hit, like a bleedI'm ambivalent about Trops, so I won't pass judgement. I will however point-out that it's not sensible to be anti-Trops while simultaneously failing to mention Frost Wall of Elements. The latter has a larger AoE, double the persistent snare, higher damage ticks, and applies an extremely high uptime of minor main + immobilize, among the strongest non-ult debuffs. It objectively outperforms Trops in every relevant regard.
Caltrops has a 28+ meter range man. It's completely sensible to say that the 70% snare is way too much. This is in direct conflict with your above comment about ranged snares.
That 70% is only for the first 3 seconds. Keeping a high uptime of that 70% snare is extremely expensive. That high range also comes with high expense and low damage. Almost all of caltrops budget is in its utility. Caltrops is one of the most balanced utility skills in this game.
Oh really, is that why it's a primary PvE DPS skill for 90%+ of stamina builds? Tell me more about how it's low damage and extremely expensive.
So because you don’t know “how to win” in pvp, 90% of people must have their fun nerfed.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »Agreed with Vamp Bane, Daggers, and Bombard. Nothing ranged should apply a snare. If you already have the range advantage over an opponent (extremely valuable in the current ground AoE+snare meta), then you don't need any further advantages in the form of countermobility.
Agreed, mostly, except I still think Bombard should keep the immobilize and Acid Spray keep the snare.Nay to stam Jabs nerf. It has enough targeting issues even with the snare attached, and is perfectly reasonable given the risk v. reward trade-off inherent to a melee, channeled skill.
70% is way over the top considering the multiplicative function of snares. Jabs has plenty of synergy with stuns and external snares (like Sacred Ground). I would rather they put something else on the final hit, like a bleedI'm ambivalent about Trops, so I won't pass judgement. I will however point-out that it's not sensible to be anti-Trops while simultaneously failing to mention Frost Wall of Elements. The latter has a larger AoE, double the persistent snare, higher damage ticks, and applies an extremely high uptime of minor main + immobilize, among the strongest non-ult debuffs. It objectively outperforms Trops in every relevant regard.
Caltrops has a 28+ meter range man. It's completely sensible to say that the 70% snare is way too much. This is in direct conflict with your above comment about ranged snares.
That 70% is only for the first 3 seconds. Keeping a high uptime of that 70% snare is extremely expensive. That high range also comes with high expense and low damage. Almost all of caltrops budget is in its utility. Caltrops is one of the most balanced utility skills in this game.
Oh really, is that why it's a primary PvE DPS skill for 90%+ of stamina builds? Tell me more about how it's low damage and extremely expensive.
So because you don’t know “how to win” in pvp, 90% of people must have their fun nerfed.
Yeah because it's SO FUN and skillful to snare a bunch of NPCs that just stand in place anyway. 30% is plenty snare to kite in VMA if that's what anyone worries about.0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »Agreed with Vamp Bane, Daggers, and Bombard. Nothing ranged should apply a snare. If you already have the range advantage over an opponent (extremely valuable in the current ground AoE+snare meta), then you don't need any further advantages in the form of countermobility.
Agreed, mostly, except I still think Bombard should keep the immobilize and Acid Spray keep the snare.Nay to stam Jabs nerf. It has enough targeting issues even with the snare attached, and is perfectly reasonable given the risk v. reward trade-off inherent to a melee, channeled skill.
70% is way over the top considering the multiplicative function of snares. Jabs has plenty of synergy with stuns and external snares (like Sacred Ground). I would rather they put something else on the final hit, like a bleedI'm ambivalent about Trops, so I won't pass judgement. I will however point-out that it's not sensible to be anti-Trops while simultaneously failing to mention Frost Wall of Elements. The latter has a larger AoE, double the persistent snare, higher damage ticks, and applies an extremely high uptime of minor main + immobilize, among the strongest non-ult debuffs. It objectively outperforms Trops in every relevant regard.
Caltrops has a 28+ meter range man. It's completely sensible to say that the 70% snare is way too much. This is in direct conflict with your above comment about ranged snares.
That 70% is only for the first 3 seconds. Keeping a high uptime of that 70% snare is extremely expensive. That high range also comes with high expense and low damage. Almost all of caltrops budget is in its utility. Caltrops is one of the most balanced utility skills in this game.
Oh really, is that why it's a primary PvE DPS skill for 90%+ of stamina builds? Tell me more about how it's low damage and extremely expensive.
It is one of the few aoe DoTs available and lasts 12 seconds. Of course its going to be in pve rotations.
Compared to volley, another aoe DoT, it has a higher cost and lower damage. Volley has a .167 wd ratio every .5s (.334 evert 1s). Caltrops has a .225 ratio every 1s.
Compares it to other aoe DoTs, eruption has a .233 SD ratio, WoE a .262, and liquid lightning .335.
The trend is that pure damage deals higher damage and things with other effects deal less.
Also, note that endless hail, morph for higher duration gets a cost reduction, and arrow barrage, morph with larger radius, cost nearly as much as caltrops. So radius, damage, and utility seem to play a part in each skills cost. Caltrops is expensive, does less damage, and retaining the 70% snare is extremely costly compared to other skills.
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Every time someone gets killed by something in PVP, it needs a nerf.
Endgame is they just remotely delete the game from our hard drives.
The game is only balanced when the complainers or streamtards never lose. Until then, they will come to the forums and cry for changes to skills that destroy their build.
Nearly every mechanic is unfair when you are outnumbered, that's part of the experience and it is balance. You should not have an easy walk in the park doing it. Yet the "pros" seem to always be looking for nerfs or insane buffs
I've honestly never had any problems with snare, except once where a warden ice wall+ perma immobolized me w/ a DK buddy that was spamming petrify. Both of them couldn't kill me, but instead to held me there until their entire balltard group showed up.
That was thanks to immobolize being spammed, not a snare.
Do I find it lame? Yeah. Do I think it needs to be nerfed? No. Though I can see an argument for nerfing immobilize, can't really see one for snare.Edited by Kadoin on March 16, 2019 2:58AM0
