ZOS, Your Lackluster Communication Concerning Wood Elf Racial Changes is Frustrating
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Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh don't get me wrong if they change the det passive to a sneaking passive I wouldn't care at all. I just don't want the usefulness of wood elf to take a hit from it is all. Wood elf is honestly so amazing right now from a combat standpoint.
How much of that is from Hunter's Eye though? 1500 pen isn't a lot, not even 2.5% damage (~660 pen reduces damage by 1%). If you're rolling defensively, yes it can help, but that probably means you don't have the highest uptime. Whereas if you roll offensively, it's DPS loss because a single use of any class power is going to do more damage and likely cost less stamina.
Hunters eye is massive for my build. It's something like 200 weapon damage and I have a 100% uptime on it too. I don't lose damage as I cancel my abilities with roll dodge too. It's by far the best race particularly for my build.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.0 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Hunters eye is massive for my build. It's something like 200 weapon damage and I have a 100% uptime on it too. I don't lose damage as I cancel my abilities with roll dodge too. It's by far the best race particularly for my build.
Hunter's Eye, at most, will only ever be a 2.265% damage increase. That might equate to 200 weapon damage, but it still costs ~3000 stamina per use (depending on CP and whatnot).
Unless you have a super specialized roll build, you'd be losing damage rolling on purpose. You might be cancelling an ability with roll, but if you have 100% update, then you'd need around 1,000 extra stamina regen just to make up the stamina used rolling. Even a 50% cost reduction would require over 500 regen.
You will never be able to do more damage by weaving in a roll dodge than you would if you just made a single extra attack. The only way to get an increase is if you're somehow not able to make that attack.
Like I've said, it's an okay buff if you *had* to dodge roll, but it's absolute garbage in 99% of situations for offense. There's just no way to make up for the stamina cost unless you're able to end combat *very* quickly.
If it works for you, that's great, but it's a three wasted skill points for the vast majority of Bosmer players. Especially if you already hit the PvE pen cap.4 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People that actually play the game have been enjoying the changes great deal. I don't see reason why should ZoS combat balance team cater to whim of people that are playing roleplaying subset of pve activities (and apparently still arent good at it?)Edited by SodanTok on March 10, 2019 11:32PM3 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People that actually play the game have been enjoying the changes great deal. I don't see reason why should ZoS combat balance team cater to whim of people that are playing roleplaying subset of pve activities (and apparently still arent good at it?)
Oh! The people who post here don't actually play? How fascinating! Do tell!
And hey everyone, making gold through stealing is now considered role play! Who knew, right? And getting the event tickets for the mount, role-play!
It's too bad everyone can't be like the vast majority of super serious players like @SodanTok. They are the true keyboard soldiers the game revolves around. I mean look at Sotha oil campaign in NA, one of the factions has two bars of population. A whole two bars!! And Shor, one faction has three bars (The others both have one) but still so much population! So much serious players who actually play the game!
I bet that player proudly puts on their resume "I actually play a virtual elf in an online game in a serious way. Note: It's not role play!".5 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭People that actually play the game have been enjoying the changes great deal. I don't see reason why should ZoS combat balance team cater to whim of people that are playing roleplaying subset of pve activities (and apparently still arent good at it?)
Because the team is apparently (with regards to this change) only catering to the small group who PvPs. The pen bonus is worthless in most PvE once you get decent gear, so that's the vast majority of players right there.
The 10% speed buff just a weaksauce version of a Bow passive which I'd imagine a large portion of Bosmer have since it's a good stam DPS line and Bosmer are known for their archery (although it's just an XP gain in ESO).
And I have yet to see more than a few people praise Hunter's Eye outside of a couple of people like you who have a very specific niche build that can benefit. It's not like you get a fun noticeable benefit from it, rather you dodge roll and instead of doing 5,000 damage, you do 5,150.
Even amongst people who like it, I'd say most would take a permanent 600 pen bonus instead because they'd get more use out of it.
And no one is getting any benefit from the stealth detect. PvPers (aside from newbies) don't stealth close enough to be detected. Sure, you might stumble over someone who is trying to hide, but most people are going to be using skills like mage light or the +20 meter stealth detection potions. 3m is nothing in that case.
Instead of insulting the people who like the game for more than "mah damage are good", maybe you should realize that quite a few people like to play games like these as more than just murder hobos.5 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People that actually play the game have been enjoying the changes great deal. I don't see reason why should ZoS combat balance team cater to whim of people that are playing roleplaying subset of pve activities (and apparently still arent good at it?)
Again, how much of that is the detection crap, and how much is everything else?
I enjoy most of the other changes, but NONE of those are in any way shape or form conditional or reliant upon the moronic, useless, utter GARBAGE detection passive.
And your own argument points out how completely useless the detection passive is. If stealth is ONLY for "people that are playing roleplaying subset of pve activities (and apparently still arent good at it?)" then what possible value could there ever be in detecting such people?Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.3 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hunters eye is massive for my build. It's something like 200 weapon damage and I have a 100% uptime on it too. I don't lose damage as I cancel my abilities with roll dodge too. It's by far the best race particularly for my build.
Hunter's Eye, at most, will only ever be a 2.265% damage increase. That might equate to 200 weapon damage, but it still costs ~3000 stamina per use (depending on CP and whatnot).
Unless you have a super specialized roll build, you'd be losing damage rolling on purpose. You might be cancelling an ability with roll, but if you have 100% update, then you'd need around 1,000 extra stamina regen just to make up the stamina used rolling. Even a 50% cost reduction would require over 500 regen.
You will never be able to do more damage by weaving in a roll dodge than you would if you just made a single extra attack. The only way to get an increase is if you're somehow not able to make that attack.
Like I've said, it's an okay buff if you *had* to dodge roll, but it's absolute garbage in 99% of situations for offense. There's just no way to make up for the stamina cost unless you're able to end combat *very* quickly.
If it works for you, that's great, but it's a three wasted skill points for the vast majority of Bosmer players. Especially if you already hit the PvE pen cap.
But I can use the same amount of attacks and also roll so I don't lose on damage? Also my roll dodge costs 1000 stamina (soon to be 800) per use on my build without CP. Even if it cost between 2000-3000 stamina I would still go bosmer as it's just a great passive. Keep in mind, this is a flavor passive, it's not supposed to be as strong as other passives. Bosmer gets equivalent regen to wep dmg from orc, same max stamina but the only difference is trading the roll dodge passive for 1k hp. If you roll a decent amount its stronger but if you don't its weaker. That's balance imo.Edited by Rikumaru on March 11, 2019 12:00PMOverload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hunters eye is massive for my build. It's something like 200 weapon damage and I have a 100% uptime on it too. I don't lose damage as I cancel my abilities with roll dodge too. It's by far the best race particularly for my build.
Hunter's Eye, at most, will only ever be a 2.265% damage increase. That might equate to 200 weapon damage, but it still costs ~3000 stamina per use (depending on CP and whatnot).
Unless you have a super specialized roll build, you'd be losing damage rolling on purpose. You might be cancelling an ability with roll, but if you have 100% update, then you'd need around 1,000 extra stamina regen just to make up the stamina used rolling. Even a 50% cost reduction would require over 500 regen.
You will never be able to do more damage by weaving in a roll dodge than you would if you just made a single extra attack. The only way to get an increase is if you're somehow not able to make that attack.
Like I've said, it's an okay buff if you *had* to dodge roll, but it's absolute garbage in 99% of situations for offense. There's just no way to make up for the stamina cost unless you're able to end combat *very* quickly.
If it works for you, that's great, but it's a three wasted skill points for the vast majority of Bosmer players. Especially if you already hit the PvE pen cap.
But I can use the same amount of attacks and also roll so I don't lose on damage? Also my roll dodge costs 1000 stamina (soon to be 800) per use on my build without CP. Even if it cost between 2000-3000 stamina I would still go bosmer as it's just a great passive. Keep in mind, this is a flavor passive, it's not supposed to be as strong as other passives. Bosmer gets equivalent regen to wep dmg from orc, same max stamina but the only difference is trading the roll dodge passive for 1k hp. If you roll a decent amount its stronger but if you don't its weaker. That's balance imo.
I am still not following your reasoning. You claim about the roll that;
But that is not a lot of damage for a big stamina spender like that. Isn’t just adding in a quick light attack or two much more effective?
Hunters eye is massive for my build. It's something like 200 weapon damage and I have a 100% uptime on it too. I don't lose damage as I cancel my abilities with roll dodge too. It's by far the best race particularly for my build.
And the orc racial you mentioned;
Increases Experience gain in Heavy Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 10% Inspiration gain → No changes
Brawny: Gain 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
Unflinching: Increases Healing Received by 5% and 20% Health Recovery → Unflinching Rage: Grants 1000 Max Health and heals you for up to 600 when you deal damage with a weapon, with a 4 second cooldown.
Swift Warrior: Increases Melee Damage by 4%, 12% Sprint cost reduction and 10% Sprint Speed → Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.
That damage bonus is up 100% of the time, without spending time or any stamina on a roll. It’s a far superior racial. I am just not understanding your point.2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, yes they did. They said they wanted to give more races options for other roles. They completely failed because they cherry picked what races and didn't give all of them the same treatment.
Because there was no need to equalize all races. To say it kindly, every race is viable. Every race for every role, every build and every kind of content. The only thing some races might outshine others is leaderboards/scores. Besides that your racial choice doesn't matter.
Again, they might have not succeeded 100% with the changes but they opened up some special race/build combos that now benefit from racials, e.g.
- Magicka Khajiit
- Stamina Dunmer
- Magicka Redguard
- Magicka Imperial
That's more options than we had before. And they made Breton competitive, too.Edited by Seraphayel on March 11, 2019 12:30PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hunters eye is massive for my build. It's something like 200 weapon damage and I have a 100% uptime on it too. I don't lose damage as I cancel my abilities with roll dodge too. It's by far the best race particularly for my build.
Hunter's Eye, at most, will only ever be a 2.265% damage increase. That might equate to 200 weapon damage, but it still costs ~3000 stamina per use (depending on CP and whatnot).
Unless you have a super specialized roll build, you'd be losing damage rolling on purpose. You might be cancelling an ability with roll, but if you have 100% update, then you'd need around 1,000 extra stamina regen just to make up the stamina used rolling. Even a 50% cost reduction would require over 500 regen.
You will never be able to do more damage by weaving in a roll dodge than you would if you just made a single extra attack. The only way to get an increase is if you're somehow not able to make that attack.
Like I've said, it's an okay buff if you *had* to dodge roll, but it's absolute garbage in 99% of situations for offense. There's just no way to make up for the stamina cost unless you're able to end combat *very* quickly.
If it works for you, that's great, but it's a three wasted skill points for the vast majority of Bosmer players. Especially if you already hit the PvE pen cap.
But I can use the same amount of attacks and also roll so I don't lose on damage? Also my roll dodge costs 1000 stamina (soon to be 800) per use on my build without CP. Even if it cost between 2000-3000 stamina I would still go bosmer as it's just a great passive. Keep in mind, this is a flavor passive, it's not supposed to be as strong as other passives. Bosmer gets equivalent regen to wep dmg from orc, same max stamina but the only difference is trading the roll dodge passive for 1k hp. If you roll a decent amount its stronger but if you don't its weaker. That's balance imo.
I am still not following your reasoning. You claim about the roll that;
But that is not a lot of damage for a big stamina spender like that. Isn’t just adding in a quick light attack or two much more effective?
Hunters eye is massive for my build. It's something like 200 weapon damage and I have a 100% uptime on it too. I don't lose damage as I cancel my abilities with roll dodge too. It's by far the best race particularly for my build.
And the orc racial you mentioned;
Increases Experience gain in Heavy Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 10% Inspiration gain → No changes
Brawny: Gain 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
Unflinching: Increases Healing Received by 5% and 20% Health Recovery → Unflinching Rage: Grants 1000 Max Health and heals you for up to 600 when you deal damage with a weapon, with a 4 second cooldown.
Swift Warrior: Increases Melee Damage by 4%, 12% Sprint cost reduction and 10% Sprint Speed → Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.
That damage bonus is up 100% of the time, without spending time or any stamina on a roll. It’s a far superior racial. I am just not understanding your point.
La-skill-bash/roll-roll. I don't lose out on any damage. As sprint speed and 300 hp per hit every 5s from orc, sure but I get 10% movespeed for 5 seconds on roll dodge and poison immunity. Wood elf is amazing now unlike before when it was a worthless race outside of gank builds. For my particular build it is up for 100% of the time when I'm hitting my enemy, but even if it wasn't it would be up enough for me to want to use it over orc on any medium build.Edited by Rikumaru on March 11, 2019 12:50PMOverload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Rikumaru
I think it's great that the racial changes opened up new build options and yours sounds very interesting. This is what makes ESO, not chasing the meta or complaining about 1% DPS differences.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭But I can use the same amount of attacks and also roll so I don't lose on damage? Also my roll dodge costs 1000 stamina (soon to be 800) per use on my build without CP. Even if it cost between 2000-3000 stamina I would still go bosmer as it's just a great passive. Keep in mind, this is a flavor passive, it's not supposed to be as strong as other passives. Bosmer gets equivalent regen to wep dmg from orc, same max stamina but the only difference is trading the roll dodge passive for 1k hp. If you roll a decent amount its stronger but if you don't its weaker. That's balance imo.
I'm curious as to what your build is that you're getting 72% (1000) - 77% (800) roll cost reduction. Sounds like you're giving up quite a bit in order to achieve that. Especially considered that in PvP, I can put a single piece of white protective jewelry and more than completely negate that pen buff. White protective gives an extra 1624 resistance, so that means I'm still getting 124 extra resist (344 if it's gold instead) and you're left with a build that has roll just to not fall behind.
It's weird how the more I talk about this trait and the more I delve into the math the worse it gets. Even with a super niche build like yours, it loses out because you the opportunity costs to make it usable are too high. Even at a mere 800 per roll, you need 267 extra stamina recovery to break even. Since Y'ffre's Endurance only gives 258, it's a losing battle. Bosmer are supposed to be a sustain race, but we don't even have the sustain to keep one of our PASSIVES going with massive cost reductions. Let alone the 1200 recovery we'd need at base roll cost. And it's near worthless in PvE where hitting the pen cap isn't hard and negated by a single piece of jewelry in PvP (or by just blocking)
Compare that to the previously mentioned Orc passive that is up 100% of the time for free on melee strikes and is worth more than the 2.25% that Hunter's Eye gives at cost. Looking at the Alcast PvE stam nightblade (using Murkmire data), his parsed weapon damage is between 4098-4210. If we had the Orc passive for that, he'd gain over 6% extra weapon damage. Since he has 0% overpenetration on that parse, that means only 2.25% extra damage at best at the cost of other abilities.
In the end, I think most of us just want stealth back. But it's pretty apparent that Hunter's Eye is absolute trash. There's no build you can make around it that wouldn't do more damage with a light attack instead. The only possible exception would be something with a lot of set bonuses that trigger on roll. But no racial (or class) ability should be 100% dependent on getting an exact set of gear or end up being worthless.
Put two points in Soul Trap, as a stamina character you'll still do more damage and still have a free skill point to spend.4 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭What will a weapon damage suit you?
It’s fine where it’s at. Got substain and good resources. That resource of Stam recovery will still be good in the long run cause pvp players before will spec to Stam recovery. Now pve players got a huge buff to it and you can still add weapon damage.
What’s not to like on speed buffs? Helps get closer to targets or to run away if a mechanic is happening.
I’m sure that other players who main wood elf are happy with the change for both PvE and PvP.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Yes, yes they did. They said they wanted to give more races options for other roles. They completely failed because they cherry picked what races and didn't give all of them the same treatment.
Because there was no need to equalize all races. To say it kindly, every race is viable. Every race for every role, every build and every kind of content. The only thing some races might outshine others is leaderboards/scores. Besides that your racial choice doesn't matter.
Again, they might have not succeeded 100% with the changes but they opened up some special race/build combos that now benefit from racials, e.g.
- Magicka Khajiit
- Stamina Dunmer
- Magicka Redguard
- Magicka Imperial
That's more options than we had before. And they made Breton competitive, too.
They opened up nothing new for Argonians for people who like to dps. In our eyes they failed, sorry but you can argue all you want. You aren't going to change my and many others views.2 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭But I can use the same amount of attacks and also roll so I don't lose on damage? Also my roll dodge costs 1000 stamina (soon to be 800) per use on my build without CP. Even if it cost between 2000-3000 stamina I would still go bosmer as it's just a great passive. Keep in mind, this is a flavor passive, it's not supposed to be as strong as other passives. Bosmer gets equivalent regen to wep dmg from orc, same max stamina but the only difference is trading the roll dodge passive for 1k hp. If you roll a decent amount its stronger but if you don't its weaker. That's balance imo.
I'm curious as to what your build is that you're getting 72% (1000) - 77% (800) roll cost reduction. Sounds like you're giving up quite a bit in order to achieve that. Especially considered that in PvP, I can put a single piece of white protective jewelry and more than completely negate that pen buff. White protective gives an extra 1624 resistance, so that means I'm still getting 124 extra resist (344 if it's gold instead) and you're left with a build that has roll just to not fall behind.
It's weird how the more I talk about this trait and the more I delve into the math the worse it gets. Even with a super niche build like yours, it loses out because you the opportunity costs to make it usable are too high. Even at a mere 800 per roll, you need 267 extra stamina recovery to break even. Since Y'ffre's Endurance only gives 258, it's a losing battle. Bosmer are supposed to be a sustain race, but we don't even have the sustain to keep one of our PASSIVES going with massive cost reductions. Let alone the 1200 recovery we'd need at base roll cost. And it's near worthless in PvE where hitting the pen cap isn't hard and negated by a single piece of jewelry in PvP (or by just blocking)
Compare that to the previously mentioned Orc passive that is up 100% of the time for free on melee strikes and is worth more than the 2.25% that Hunter's Eye gives at cost. Looking at the Alcast PvE stam nightblade (using Murkmire data), his parsed weapon damage is between 4098-4210. If we had the Orc passive for that, he'd gain over 6% extra weapon damage. Since he has 0% overpenetration on that parse, that means only 2.25% extra damage at best at the cost of other abilities.
In the end, I think most of us just want stealth back. But it's pretty apparent that Hunter's Eye is absolute trash. There's no build you can make around it that wouldn't do more damage with a light attack instead. The only possible exception would be something with a lot of set bonuses that trigger on roll. But no racial (or class) ability should be 100% dependent on getting an exact set of gear or end up being worthless.
Put two points in Soul Trap, as a stamina character you'll still do more damage and still have a free skill point to spend.
Protective is a hyper efficient trait so it's kinda not the best thing to compare this passive to. That being said, pen becomes more effective in damage amp the more resistances the enemy has so this passive becomes stronger than it was before. You shouldn't be comparing the orc's weapon damage to the roll dodge passive, of course it's stronger as it's the main part of the orcs passive. You should compare orc's weapon damage to bosmer's regen which are equal.
Then you compare 1k hp with 1.5k pen for 5s which imo balanced, one being stronger than the other depending on setup (imo any medium build pen is better). 2k stam for 2k stam, those are equivalent. Then you compared 300 hp per 5s + 10% sprint speed + 12% sprint cost reduction for 10% move speed after roll for 5s + poison immunity. Both seem pretty much equal (I personally prefer bosmer's passives again). This is literally balance in my eyes. Sure you can argue the missing sneak bonus is bad for some of the questing players but at least in PvP you can't argue that wood elf is in any way weaker than the other stam classes, because it's not.Edited by Rikumaru on March 11, 2019 2:28PMOverload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.0 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Yes, yes they did. They said they wanted to give more races options for other roles. They completely failed because they cherry picked what races and didn't give all of them the same treatment.
Because there was no need to equalize all races. To say it kindly, every race is viable. Every race for every role, every build and every kind of content. The only thing some races might outshine others is leaderboards/scores. Besides that your racial choice doesn't matter.
Again, they might have not succeeded 100% with the changes but they opened up some special race/build combos that now benefit from racials, e.g.
- Magicka Khajiit
- Stamina Dunmer
- Magicka Redguard
- Magicka Imperial
That's more options than we had before. And they made Breton competitive, too.
They opened up nothing new for Argonians for people who like to dps. In our eyes they failed, sorry but you can argue all you want. You aren't going to change my and many others views.
Cause argonians were to op and need a slight adjustment to the main stats that make the argonians over performing. Argonians are fine where they are now adding more things will make it overpowerered compare to the rest.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Yes, yes they did. They said they wanted to give more races options for other roles. They completely failed because they cherry picked what races and didn't give all of them the same treatment.
Because there was no need to equalize all races. To say it kindly, every race is viable. Every race for every role, every build and every kind of content. The only thing some races might outshine others is leaderboards/scores. Besides that your racial choice doesn't matter.
Again, they might have not succeeded 100% with the changes but they opened up some special race/build combos that now benefit from racials, e.g.
- Magicka Khajiit
- Stamina Dunmer
- Magicka Redguard
- Magicka Imperial
That's more options than we had before. And they made Breton competitive, too.
They opened up nothing new for Argonians for people who like to dps. In our eyes they failed, sorry but you can argue all you want. You aren't going to change my and many others views.
As I already said, they didn't have to. Argonians are excellent healers and tanks, better than most other races. If they'd get the DPS role on top they'd have too much. And please don't start arguing with "but there are better races for healers and tanks..." - yes and no, but we haven't to derail this thread even more to discuss this here again.
So it's totally fine that you don't like the changes but Argonians are great for the roles they were supposed to fit into. Argonian DPS is good and for PvP they're still one of the best races. They're just not as competitive as other DPS races (in PvE) which only matters for scores and leaderboards but not for the general content of the game (yes, not even HMs/Vet content).
Argonians didn't get shafted. That's my opinion and I still very much enjoy my Argonian Templar. If you think they got shafted, okay, that's your view on the matter.Edited by Seraphayel on March 11, 2019 2:52PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭sneakymitchell wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Yes, yes they did. They said they wanted to give more races options for other roles. They completely failed because they cherry picked what races and didn't give all of them the same treatment.
Because there was no need to equalize all races. To say it kindly, every race is viable. Every race for every role, every build and every kind of content. The only thing some races might outshine others is leaderboards/scores. Besides that your racial choice doesn't matter.
Again, they might have not succeeded 100% with the changes but they opened up some special race/build combos that now benefit from racials, e.g.
- Magicka Khajiit
- Stamina Dunmer
- Magicka Redguard
- Magicka Imperial
That's more options than we had before. And they made Breton competitive, too.
They opened up nothing new for Argonians for people who like to dps. In our eyes they failed, sorry but you can argue all you want. You aren't going to change my and many others views.
Cause argonians were to op and need a slight adjustment to the main stats that make the argonians over performing. Argonians are fine where they are now adding more things will make it overpowerered compare to the rest.
So I did a search and the only "Argonians are OP" threads that I found were from back in 2016. They made so many changes since then. I've also seen parses and actual data that refute that we would be OP with help to our dps. The fact of the matter is they seem to only listen to the select few pvp cryhards and streamers these people could be biased and/or keyboard racists that just want to see a race they don't like useless. With the lack of communication I will continue to believe this and hang onto my money.Edited by Koronach on March 11, 2019 2:44PM1 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lackluster Communication is not soley a Problem in this case..but its a general Problem ZOS has.
There have been whole threads in the General ESO section about the Bad Communication...which all got ignored by ZOS and nothing changed...and thats prob one day the downfall of ESO.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer1 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Protective is a hyper efficient trait so it's kinda not the best thing to compare this passive to. That being said, pen becomes more effective in damage amp the more resistances the enemy has so this passive becomes stronger than it was before. You shouldn't be comparing the orc's weapon damage to the roll dodge passive, of course it's stronger as it's the main part of the orcs passive. You should compare orc's weapon damage to bosmer's regen which are equal.
Then you compare 1k hp with 1.5k pen for 5s which imo balanced, one being stronger than the other depending on setup (imo any medium build pen is better). 2k stam for 2k stam, those are equivalent. Then you compared 300 hp per 5s + 10% sprint speed + 12% sprint cost reduction for 10% move speed after roll for 5s + poison immunity. Both seem pretty much equal (I personally prefer bosmer's passives again). This is literally balance in my eyes. Sure you can argue the missing sneak bonus is bad for some of the questing players but at least in PvP you can't argue that wood elf is in any way weaker than the other stam classes, because it's not.
Hyper efficient? It's a 2,000 gold purchase. A few daily crafting writs should not completely invalidate a passive. Hell, now that I see how cheap they are, I need to go buy some. I'm not end-game equipped so I assumed they would be expensive, not "buy as soon as you hit CP160". And if you want to say Protective is too esoteric to be considered, then you have do discount all the rarely used sets that give roll dodge bonuses. That's not a restriction you want to make.
Let's look at how resistances work statistically. For ease of calculation, let's say you do 1,000 damage. As their resistance grows, it'll reduce your damage down to 500 (50%) when it hits the resistance cap.
Now let's add your 1,500 pen in (and assume it's all you have). If they are unarmored, you still do 1,000 damage, so no benefit. If they have max resistance (exactly), then you now negate ~2.25% of their 50%. So you end up doing 52.25% of base which is 522.5 damage. That's only 4.5% more than with the passive. That's respectable, but drops as their resistance drops (it's only a 4.1% increase if you can negate 10% resistance), 3% if you reduce their resistance to 25%, etc.
All that assume as target at/near the resistance cap (but not over, over means our passive is worthless). As you fight less armored foes, if you have a high natural pen you're going to reduce their resistance to 0 which means the passive is worthless again
All for a huge stamina hit for 99.9% of players
As to the Orc/Bomser trait comparison.
Orcs get max stam, Bosmer get max stam plus poison resistance (which is a whole different WTF). Pretty straightforward, with an edge to Bosmer for the poison resistance.
Orcs get max health and a tiny heal while Bosmer get stam recovery. Obviously this benefits Bosmer in DPS build and Orcs in a tank build
Finally you have the flavor passives. Orcs get weapon damage, sprint cost reduction and sprint speed increase, while Bosmer get Detection Radius and increased speed/pen after rolling. This way favors Orcs in terms of DPS.
You can't compare part of one passive with part of another because you don't get to pick and choose like that. I can't compare Orc weapon damage to Bosmer stam recovery because the Orc sprint bonuses come with theirs.
Basically you have the Orcs getting a >5% constant bonus to their melee damage while Bosmer get, at best 4.5% to their damage for 6 seconds after spending a bunch of stamina.
As of right now, Orcs are the better overall stam dps race.
You might like new Hunter's Eye passive, but it's not been well received, and I'd wager most people who like it don't realize how bad is.
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Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The TLDR version: Hunter's Eye = 3 skill points best spent somewhere else.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.3 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭I wish you'd roll a magsorc. With this type of persistence and passion maybe ZOS would finally stop nerfing them.Edited by Mintaka5 on March 11, 2019 4:34PM0
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I wish you'd roll a magsorc. With this type of persistence and passion maybe ZOS would finally stop nerfing them.
My persistence and passion about the Wood Elf changes are inspired by ZOS' absurdity.
I don't know if it is an ego, pride, or selfishness problem on the part of whoever made the changes, but ZOS couldn't be moved from their desire to push out Wood Elf changes that 1) didn't make sense, 2) directly contradicted the in-game description of the class, and 3) frustrated members of the community who built their character around a passive by removing it right before TG and DB events.
Just be happy that magsorc still uses spells, for now. If ZOS applied their Wood Elf logic to magsorc changes then they would probably rework the class to be brawlers
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