Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6

How out of touch with the ESO community is ZOS?

KILMAIM
KILMAIM
✭✭✭
How out of touch with the ESO community is ZOS?

Let’s start with everyone’s most anticipated update: jewelry crafting! Everyone in the game looked forward to jewelry crafting. Everyone even dreamed of being able to “gold-out” all their purple rings and necklaces, but how feasible is this actually? It’s practically impossible. This is in large part thanks to the ridiculous, unchecked economy that ZOS allows to flourish.

Finding a “white” deal range is practically non-existent. Chromium grains, according to Master Merchant, have a median price of approximately 7613.70 as of March 13, 2019. This means, at the current rate, which hasn’t really dropped at all since release, up-grading three purple items to gold will cost approximately 1.80M. This simply not feasible for the majority of players on ESO. Top guilds, top traders, and hard core trials grinders can afford this, but for the most part, everyone else in game simply cannot.

Of course, the current mark-up for chromium grains is sitting at over 8k. Chromium plating is averaging approximately 82.5K a piece. If a player is simply questing, doing dungeons, and trying to learn trials, when do they really have time to make that much money when it’s simply not built into the game?

The nice thing about provision traders and enchanting traders etc., is that certain ingredients have a bottom line cost, so at least when the market starts price gouging, you can always run to the store where it’s practical to at least pay an established and unchanging price. If I want to experience market fluctuations, I’ll simply look at my 401K and be thankful that my company actually provides a pension.

Now I’m sure there will be arguments for and against the pricing of chromium, but let’s put this into perspective. For instance, I’m looking at various jewelry crafting writs in my inventory. Now, I also remember when crafting writs were nice. You performed a task, and you were rewarded. Surveys were plentiful. It was a way that at least ensured materials were available for crafting gear while on the road of the ever treacherous grind, but ZOS took those drop rates away. Crafting viable gear sets is almost a thing of the set unless you’re entirely new to the game. Twice Born Star, the once ultimate nine trait set, which everyone grinded to achieve is practically worthless.

How about being able to craft perfected gear? Of course, no one wants even a tenured quester to be able to do that! Heaven forbid. They might actually feel good about wearing really cool gear even though they’ll probably never use it in a dungeon or trial. Anyway, I digress.

Given the general cost of chromium, why would anyone in their right mind use the materials to fulfill a legendary crafting writ, that Is, of course, unless you happen to be a guild or top trader? It’s simply not feasible. More practical, it’s illogical. How does ZOS even come up with the jewelry writ reward valuations? For instance, a Legendary Bloodthirsty Night Mother’s Gaze necklace rewards 269 writ vouchers; on the other hand, a Legendary Triune Hunding’s Rage necklace rewards 108. And if you guessed that I’m going to quote the price of those materials, go ahead an pat yourself on the back!

Apparently I have 44 slaughterstones. Master Merchant prices these at 1431.16 each. None of the guild traders in Rawl-Kha, Deshaan, or Stormhaven had any Dawn-Prism for sale. So what does this mean? I suppose there are a couple take aways: 1) dawn-prism appears to be more rare than slaughterstone, 2) ZOS rewards more for less rare items. To try to show some perspective, bloodthirsty jewelry sells for approximately 3800, whereas triune is selling for approximately 16.7k, but is marked up by about 15-18.5%. I’ll let you do the math on that one. Either way, it seems this big bat etched with the phrase “ZOS is so out of touch” keeps pounding me in the head and for the life of me, it just doesn’t seem to stop.

I took a break from this game when my toons started getting gutted, and grinding (not playing) became the essence of this game. I recently came back to what seems more futility. I need to change traits, which can only be accomplished by further grinding. Put'em in the store, I'll buy'em with real money (I've got plenty of it. I simply don't have time for ZOS's joy ride). I’ll never forget finally grinding to vet 14, only to learn that it was being extended to 16. The sense of accomplishment went out the window and ever since, it’s been a non-stop grind to get the supposed “next best idea by someone at ZOS,” when realistically, not so much.

The sound and the animation that the ”best in slot” elemental weapon makes is absolutely ridiculous. Come on, really? Is that the best someone could come up with in the span of an hour conference call? “Yeah…we’ll make it sound like the squeaking if the Tin man, but he ain’t getting no oil! (HAHAHA).”

It’s literally years later. Why is there still a difference in which character class out-parses the next? Why is there a “highest” dps for one specific class? Why don’t each of the classes have fairly the same output and survivability as the next class? Uniqueness should come in terms of animations. That Fire is BiS over Lightning is absolutely ridiculous. If we’re talking math, it’s simply a matter of adjusting the numbers. It can be done!

Sets should be completely interchangeable with little, if any, difference to total numbers output. Zaan will be BiS ‘til ZOS decides to supersede it. Why is it the Spawn of Mephala monster set is relegated to practically useless? That's right: heavy attacks are useless ("hey man, that ain't 'meta' no more, yo!). That is, of course, besides someone at ZOS being encouraged to have a “brilliant idea” and apparently everyone else in the room was outranked and couldn’t challenge the idea of merit alone without fear of losing their livelihoods.

ZOS is a business. They’re making money for retired sports players and business men who simply want the ESO community to invest in computerized virtual nothingness, not that anything can be taken to the grave anyway. It’s sad. And again, I digress.
Edited by KILMAIM on March 10, 2019 3:13AM
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmm. You know.... I've only been playing since June last year. And I can quite easily afford to gold out jewelry when my main hits CP 160.

    Nope. I'm not in a trader guild, so that's not where the gold is from. I don't like the elitist "guild trader only" economy, so I don't go there. I just do daily crafting writs on my girls. Every girl (24 of them now, on two accounts) every day. (Admittedly, I have unlimited time to play as I'm retired - YMMV of course.)

    Actually, thinking about it, I could afford to gold out jewelry and every other piece of armor for all my girls. I wouldn't - because purple's good enough for everything but weapons and jewelry.

    I don't spend much. Eventually I'll probably mess with housing. But until then, I don't at all have money issues.
  • KILMAIM
    KILMAIM
    ✭✭✭
    The topic isn't simply about coin. I've got BiS golded out. Enjoy your retirement.
  • Siohwenoeht
    Siohwenoeht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I think there are a lot of unrealistic expectations from the player base. Of all the AAA MMOs I've played, I think ESO has the most in-touch dev team.

    Not every nerf/whine thread warrants a response.

    Zos is under zero obligation to say anything at all about changes but instead has player class reps, posts thorough patch notes and has a long pts cycle.

    Are there problems? Of course! No game of this scope will be free of issues (balance, bugs etc) but in my 20+ year experience playing MMOs, zos gets more right than it does wrong. Sometimes the wrongs are big lol, but the devs are human too ;)
    Edited by Siohwenoeht on March 10, 2019 3:18AM
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZOS isnt going to please everyone, so at any given time a good portion of the community will feel like ZOS has lost touch with them.

    Last update, it was MagSorcs and damage shield users.

    This update, its Altmer and Bosmer and anyone else unhappy with the racial changes.

    Next update? Who knows. But someone will undoubtedly feel like ZOS has lost touch with their portion of the community.
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am enjoying my retirement, thank you.

    However, I have actually no clue what your real beef is. So perhaps you should edit your lengthy post to state in so many words just WHAT your issue really is?

    Seriously, you are all over various maps in that post. I simply replied to the only part of it that made any sense to me personally.
  • dem0n1k
    dem0n1k
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the OP that jewelry crafting is just way out of reach of the average casual player.. maybe it was meant to be that way.. but that's the way it is.

    I have had my crafter deconning all the jewelry I have found, refining all the raw mats, doing daily crafting writs since jewelry crafting came out & below is how many platings I have right now...

    platings2019.jpg

    Granted I am a pretty casual player, I don't do node farming & don't do a lot of activities that provide jewelry that can be deconned... but that is almost a year of my meager collecting & it's still useless to even do a set of purple jewelry.

    IMO the 'grains' system needs to go & have deconning & refining provide platings.


    Edited by dem0n1k on March 10, 2019 3:42AM
    NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.
  • Siohwenoeht
    Siohwenoeht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @dem0n1k ya, too me it makes zero sense that epic tier has almost the same drop rate/refine rate as gold. I'm ok with how slow gold platings add up, but they need to open up purple more.
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • Acrolas
    Acrolas
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The irony of popping in every 6 to 12 months to accuse other people of being out of touch.
    signing off
  • SFDB
    SFDB
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    KILMAIM wrote: »
    Chromium grains, according to Master Merchant, have a median price of approximately 7613.70 as of March 13, 2019.
    Do you need a certain number of grains to allow your time machine to take you back to the future?
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes making gold jewelery is out of the reach for casual player but the question is why or what for would casual player even need golden jewelery in the 1st place ?
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Yes making gold jewelery is out of the reach for casual player but the question is why or what for would casual player even need golden jewelery in the 1st place ?

    Very true. I said I "could" do it. I didn't say I would. Because I don't ever plan to do whatever passes for endgame in ESO - hmmm.... guess that's trials?

    *shrug* I've actually never been interested in whatever passed for endgame in the MMOs I've played. First thing, my ping is.... through the roof. So - that's the stopper right there. Second thing, I'm just not interested in it....
  • dem0n1k
    dem0n1k
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Yes making gold jewelery is out of the reach for casual player but the question is why or what for would casual player even need golden jewelery in the 1st place ?

    Same reason any player wants gold jewelry, to maximise a build, to have a point where a particular set is done.

    I am a casual player by the number of hours per week I play... but I have still been playing since 2014.. so I already have a stack of gold jewelry for sets that I worked on. (mostly attained from the golden as I PVP a lot & have millions of AP available.)

    It's not just golding out jewelry that is the problem with jewelry crafting.. it's the grains instead of platings that makes any jewelry crafting a pain in the butt for casuals.

    I don't expect ZOS to change it though... I am just voicing my opinion on the subject.
    Edited by dem0n1k on March 10, 2019 5:33AM
    NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.
  • Lylith
    Lylith
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    @dem0n1k ya, too me it makes zero sense that epic tier has almost the same drop rate/refine rate as gold. I'm ok with how slow gold platings add up, but they need to open up purple more.

    this.right.here.

    the rng of *** grains is like a slap in the face.

    'why are you even trying?' yuk yuk yuk

    tenor.gif
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    My only problem with jewelry crafting is that it's not possible for me to research most of the traits. The only ones I've ever seen are the single trait ones, health, stamina or magicka. None of the others are available to me, meaning I'll never be able to craft gear requiring more than three traits.
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • Siohwenoeht
    Siohwenoeht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    My only problem with jewelry crafting is that it's not possible for me to research most of the traits. The only ones I've ever seen are the single trait ones, health, stamina or magicka. None of the others are available to me, meaning I'll never be able to craft gear requiring more than three traits.

    You can get exemplar infused jewelry from quest rewards but I've not bothered beyond that yet.
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    My only problem with jewelry crafting is that it's not possible for me to research most of the traits. The only ones I've ever seen are the single trait ones, health, stamina or magicka. None of the others are available to me, meaning I'll never be able to craft gear requiring more than three traits.

    You find the others on the guild traders, which is the only reason I use them (and for motifs I don't know, when a master writ drops). The rarer traits you can find easily if you're willing to spend the gold. Most of the trait items I bought were around 15 k each. Nirnhoned.... is a LOT, doesn't matter what it's on. But you need that 9th trait. It should be a lot easier to find what you need now with the search function (assuming you're on PC - and I don't know that you are; if not.... well, I'm really sorry....)

    I don't have a problem paying for things I need....
    Edited by Sylvermynx on March 10, 2019 5:41AM
  • dem0n1k
    dem0n1k
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Morgha_Kul wrote: »
    My only problem with jewelry crafting is that it's not possible for me to research most of the traits. The only ones I've ever seen are the single trait ones, health, stamina or magicka. None of the others are available to me, meaning I'll never be able to craft gear requiring more than three traits.

    As @Siohwenoeht has said.. the infused trait is pretty easy to get from doing the Psijic skill line. The other traits only drop in the top PVP rewards, trial completion rewards & a few other activities that I can't remember right now. I ended up buying most of them from guild stores to research for ludicrous prices :/ A few I got traded from guildies that do the required activities.

    NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.
  • Drdeath20
    Drdeath20
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jewlery is really the least important thing to gold out so why not make it the most time consuming. I mean its not really that time consuming to gold out 3 jewlery pieces. Probably takes about 2 weeks for a mildly hardcore player.
  • Jameliel
    Jameliel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Hmm. You know.... I've only been playing since June last year. And I can quite easily afford to gold out jewelry when my main hits CP 160.

    Nope. I'm not in a trader guild, so that's not where the gold is from. I don't like the elitist "guild trader only" economy, so I don't go there. I just do daily crafting writs on my girls. Every girl (24 of them now, on two accounts) every day. (Admittedly, I have unlimited time to play as I'm retired - YMMV of course.)

    Actually, thinking about it, I could afford to gold out jewelry and every other piece of armor for all my girls. I wouldn't - because purple's good enough for everything but weapons and jewelry.

    I don't spend much. Eventually I'll probably mess with housing. But until then, I don't at all have money issues.

    I could be mistaken, but your post seems like you simply want to brag about your game gold. The average player is more in line with the op. In reply to the OP, I believe zos is far out of touch...deep space drifting out of touch.😂
  • boggo
    boggo
    ✭✭✭
    Some posts on this forum actually make me hope that ZOS is out of touch with their authors. XD
  • Verbal_Earthworm
    Verbal_Earthworm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Drdeath20 wrote: »
    mildly hardcore

    what does that even mean

  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think there are a lot of unrealistic expectations from the player base. Of all the AAA MMOs I've played, I think ESO has the most in-touch dev team.

    Not every nerf/whine thread warrants a response.

    Zos is under zero obligation to say anything at all about changes but instead has player class reps, posts thorough patch notes and has a long pts cycle.

    Are there problems? Of course! No game of this scope will be free of issues (balance, bugs etc) but in my 20+ year experience playing MMOs, zos gets more right than it does wrong. Sometimes the wrongs are big lol, but the devs are human too ;)

    Spot on, well said @Siohwenoeht
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Hmm. You know.... I've only been playing since June last year. And I can quite easily afford to gold out jewelry when my main hits CP 160.

    Nope. I'm not in a trader guild, so that's not where the gold is from. I don't like the elitist "guild trader only" economy, so I don't go there. I just do daily crafting writs on my girls. Every girl (24 of them now, on two accounts) every day. (Admittedly, I have unlimited time to play as I'm retired - YMMV of course.)

    Actually, thinking about it, I could afford to gold out jewelry and every other piece of armor for all my girls. I wouldn't - because purple's good enough for everything but weapons and jewelry.

    I don't spend much. Eventually I'll probably mess with housing. But until then, I don't at all have money issues.

    Welcome to the game @Sylvermynx love your approach / attitude
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • EQBallzz
    EQBallzz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the OP has a point. The fact that the crafting writs for jewelry are basically worthless even when they reward you with 200+ vouchers should be a pretty big clue that something is terribly wrong.

    The first master jewelry writ I got was for an epic quality item and like a dummy I started crafting the item..got to blue before realizing how absurd it would be to actually craft a purple quality item for a writ. The mats would have cost me well over 100k gold to acquire.

    That writ was a huge waste of time and mats but I learned the hard way not to do jewelry master writs ever again. Maybe instead of vouchers the writs should reward millions of gold so you can afford to do jewelry crafting.

    It's also amusing someone above trying to state how easy it is to afford jewelry crafting..all you need is to quit your job/retire, play ESO all day and do daily writs on 24 character spanning 2 ESO accounts every day..sounds so reasonable. lol.
  • Trancestor
    Trancestor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    Edited by Trancestor on March 10, 2019 12:52PM
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm pretty happy with jewelry crafting. I love the ability to (finally) make jewelry for crafted sets - that offers tons of flexibility.

    For example, I want my light armor mage in Rattlecagex5, Seducerx5 and a monster set. I also want her to be 5(light)/1/1 and Rattlecage is a heavy set. That makes filling the bill very precise for Rattlecage: 1 cuirass, 2 staves, 2 jewelry pieces. That also means I need 1 jewelry piece in Seducers - which I can make! Love it.

    With perks, it takes 3 purples to purple out a piece of jewelry and that is well within grasp. I've never had gold jewelry and I don't now - with a fairly small bonus and 8 golds required for each piece, I'll leave that for other players who have the desire and ambition for that.
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on March 10, 2019 1:15PM
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • Kikke
    Kikke
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    So, can you tell me WHY a quester needs gold jewerly and perfected gear? when every overland mob just falls over once you stare at it long enough, even with the worst gear ingame.

    So why?
    Edited by Kikke on March 10, 2019 12:59PM
    Cleared Trials:
    - vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -

    "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
    -Someone said it, I guess.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jelewery crafting will level out if summerset becomes part of eso plus even not they keep packing it with every chapter eventually things will work out.

    Dawn prism issue simply a sign of the division between PvP and PvE players. They simply don't mix well and it's issue zos will need to address when imperial city becomes a campigan.

    The issue with dps parses is basing everything on standard of raid parse and perfect sustain. In such world's things are equal.

    In regards to perfect gear, it's a reward for people to take the time and effort to complete hardest content. Still the difference between two is very minimal. Taking it back a bit Crafters are reward with master writers and questers with motifs so at this point I see no issue.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This topic would have made more sense - and been very much more valuable - if offered by way of a shorter and more coherent feedback on the jewelry crafting system rather than as a general sideswipe at ZOS.

    Personally I rather like the way that jewelry crafting has been made a much tougher and longer crafting system to master and practice, it was always said by ZOS to be the original idea behind crafting in ESO that the different professions would appeal differently to the players - provisioning was quick and easy for casual crafters including those players who want it all quick and easy, while enchanting was slow and time-consuming for the dedicated crafters including those players who like their MMOs to be slow and time-consuming, for example. Unfortunately ZOS succumbed early on to the demands to dumb down enchanting but have finally reverted to their original approach with the introduction of jewelry crafting. I don't have a problem with that, especially as top-end jewelry only really matters to the very few players who adopt a very strict min-max approach to their gaming. Given the nature of the jewelry crafting system I've actually been quite surprised at how few critical comments there have been since its introduction.

    That said, like @Sylvermynx I don't like the elitist "guild trader only" economy either, and - uniquely for me in MMOs - have nothing to do with selling and very little to do with buying, I've probably only bought 3 or 4 items in 5 years. So if items critical to e.g. crafting are only available at silly prices on guild traders then I do without. As a relatively casual player (hardcore fan of the game but playing it at a deliberately casual pace) I'm completely relaxed at the slow pace of advance my many characters (hint: quite a few more than @Sylvermynx :wink: ) are making in jewelry crafting as compared with the other crafting professions.

    As for the more general criticism of ZOS implicit in the topic title, I've played a good many if not most MMORPGs since 1998 and in my experience ZOS listen to players' feedback at least as much as most developers and a lot more than some. They don't always respond to feedback - probably because sensibly they just want to pick up on the ideas being discussed between players and don't want to lead the discussion or get too immersed in a heated debate - but quite often something will pop up on the PTS a few updates later that shows they were listening all along - re-arranging the order of characters on the character selection screen being one example of that.
  • randomkeyhits
    randomkeyhits
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not out of touch but separated by a common language....

    A good example is the word "rare" I tend to think of a chance of 1 or 2 in 100 as rare. Some games even reinforce this by using those values ( Warframe has 2 in 100 as rare ) but with ZOS rare is 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 10,000. There is a qualitative difference in how the word is used.

    I know its becoming rare (lol) for ZOS to communicate with us apart from the website news but look at any number of key words, how they use them is not how I and, I think, plenty of others use them.

    Sadly I don't think they'd ever explain their qualitative stuff but a glossary would be nice.
    EU PS4
  • Shantu
    Shantu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    It's not that ZOS is out of touch, I just think they have an ingrained reverence for their own ideas and perception of what the game should be. At least they care and the game still thrives.

    The whole Nerfmire debacle still pisses me off if I think too much about it. But what are you going to do? ZOS is ultimately in charge. So you adapt and move on. Otherwise you sit around feeling pissed over a game. Personally, I'd rather find something else do.

    And just a footnote, while I have 6 crafters all maxed in Jewelry Crafting, I too think it's a poorly implemented feature. I mean, come on. Is creating an astronomical investment in time and/or money in acquiring platings, and master writs for hundreds of vouchers becoming essentially worthless, really the objective? I certainly hope not.
Sign In or Register to comment.