Abilities/effects that don't need a snare ಠ_ಠ

Solariken · March 2019

You could tell me I'm wrong about some of these, but then you'd be wrong. Here's a concise list of abilities/effects that do not need snare and should have that portion removed or modified. Let me know if I missed anything.

Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweep - in case you didn't know, Templars have a football field sized snare called Sacred Ground.

Sun Fire (all morphs) - see above. Remove snare and increase damage a bit to compensate.

Summon Storm Atronach - this ultimate packs plenty of power and utility without the need for the permasnare. The extra "utility" you gain from abusing the targeting system is enough, the snare is way overkill.

Summon Unstable Familiar (and morphs) - these dumb pets apply the generic "hit from behind" auto-snare that NPC enemies apply. Stahp it.

Permafrost / Northern Storm - reduce from 70% to 30% snare. This ult is way overloaded - it deals mammoth damage and grants AoE Major Protection in addition to all its ancillary effects. AOE... Major Protection. AOE though.

Silver Leash - maybe change it to ONLY apply the snare if the enemy can't be pulled (aka CC immune). Silver Shards is fine.

Shrouded Daggers - it's fine if Flying Blade keeps the snare because it's single target. SD already deals really nice damage to 2 additional targets.

Bombard - the size and damage of the AOE very generous, and the root is incredibly powerful and sometimes abusive in battlegrounds. If players want the snare they can pick Acid Spray.

Razor Caltrops - the 3-second 70% snare needs to get the heck out. The 30% perma-snare is plenty.

Winterborn - the snare is downright nasty. Remove the snare and allow the proc to ignore 20% of enemy spell resistance. It is a very spikey spike after all.

Let's restore some sanity to battlegrounds and let us have a tiny bit more room to breath and fight normally without feeling like we're constantly stuck in waist-deep mud.

Dracan_Fontom · March 2019

90% of snares in this game should be done away with. And that's being generous.

Minno · March 2019

I don't agree with sun fire loosing the snare. They could drop it to 30% and lose the ritual/jabs snare entirely, in exchange for buffs elsewhere (sun shield mag scaling, dark flare instant cast, passive reworks).

Agreed that anything above 30% drops down to a lower level. 30% should be the mark to hit with 15% snare on abilities that are overstacked with buffs/debuffs (heroic, frost blockade, etc).

And after snares we might have tolook at defensive spells. Some of them are either overpowered or punishing to certain specs.

Solariken · March 2019

Minno wrote: »

I don't agree with sun fire loosing the snare. They could drop it to 30% and lose the ritual/jabs snare entirely, in exchange for buffs elsewhere (sun shield mag scaling, dark flare instant cast, passive reworks).

You could maybe make an argument for keeping the snare on Vampire's Bane but not Reflective Light.

Still I'd rather have the snare gone completely and get a little more damage and also Major Prophecy on activation rather than on hit like you've suggested before.

Draxys · March 2019

I’m for it.

And since you mentioned it, NO npc basic attacks should EVER snare. That little quirk has always annoyed the s___ out of me. It’s just pointlessly annoying.

Seraphayel · March 2019

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

90% of snares in this game should be done away with. And that's being generous.

Not only Snares but CCs in general. But Snares are the worst and they are basically everywhere.

frostz417 · March 2019

Any snare above 40% need to be deleted from the game

ESO_Nightingale · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

You could tell me I'm wrong about some of these, but then you'd be wrong. Here's a concise list of abilities/effects that do not need snare and should have that portion removed or modified. Let me know if I missed anything.

Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweep - in case you didn't know, Templars have a football field sized snare called Sacred Ground.

Sun Fire (all morphs) - see above. Remove snare and increase damage a bit to compensate.

Summon Storm Atronach - this ultimate packs plenty of power and utility without the need for the permasnare. The extra "utility" you gain from abusing the targeting system is enough, the snare is way overkill.

Summon Unstable Familiar (and morphs) - these dumb pets apply the generic "hit from behind" auto-snare that NPC enemies apply. Stahp it.

Permafrost / Norther Storm - reduce from 70% to 30% snare. This ult is way overloaded - it deals mammoth damage and grants AoE Major Protection in addition to all it's ancillary effects. AOE... Major Protection. AOE though.

Silver Leash - maybe change it to ONLY apply the snare if the enemy can't be pulled (aka CC immune). Silver Shards is fine.

Shrouded Daggers - it's fine if Flying Blade keeps the snare because it's single target. SD already deals really nice damage to 2 additional targets.

Bombard - the size and damage of the AOE very generous, and the root is incredibly powerful and sometimes abusive in battlegrounds. If players want the snare they can pick Acid Spray.

Razor Caltrops - the 3-second 70% snare needs to get the heck out. The 30% perma-snare is plenty.

Winterborn - the snare is downright nasty. Remove the snare and allow the proc to ignore 20% of enemy spell resistance. It is a very spikey spike after all.

Let's restore some sanity to battlegrounds and let us have a tiny bit more room to breath and fight normally without feeling like we're constantly stuck in waist-deep mud.

Hell, i'd say cut frost wall's snare too. and you forgot heroic slash's really powerful snare. those 2 are really oppressive to fight against. i definitely agree with sleet storm and morphs though on the fact that it's snare is too strong. i think the other factors are fine since it's a unique ultimate but it's oppressive because you just can't escape it. magden's in an odd position where it has very little build variety because it has barely any damage skills.

roarr · March 2019

Snares need adjustment not removal.
I agree that there are too many skills that provide snares. There are too many powerfull skills that deal tons of dmg and nearly stops you. Single ability cant do it all
Imho it should be:
High dmg, tiny slow (if even necessary)
Small dmg, slows for more.

That's The problem with resources based combat and no CDs btw. Everything is spammable. So you can reapply any slow as much as you want. Diminishing returns could be helpful here.

Stronly disagree with removal all CC - thats just stupid.

Kadoin · March 2019

And when all the mag chars simply run DW's bleed skill to snare you anyway, what are you going to do? Come back to the forums?

ESO_Nightingale · March 2019

roarr wrote: »

Snares need adjustment not removal.
I agree that there are too many skills that provide snares. There are too many powerfull skills that deal tons of dmg and nearly stops you. Single ability cant do it all
Imho it should be:
High dmg, tiny slow (if even necessary)
Small dmg, slows for more.

That's The problem with resources based combat and no CDs btw. Everything is spammable. So you can reapply any slow as much as you want. Diminishing returns could be helpful here.

Stronly disagree with removal all CC - thats just stupid.

If we do that then frost will almost certainly be pigeonholed into less damage more snare. This will NOT do for many people. I think snares need to be reined in a little bit and there needs to be a bit more snare remove/immunity especially for mag.

Vapirko · March 2019

I think that jabs could keep the snare. Jabs is just so difficult to land as is. If people weren’t slowed I’d hate to think how often it would miss. In a 1v1 ritual is up a lot but open world it’s not really practical for a stamplar to use except for the purpose of purge.

Edit: just to say I’d be fine without it, I’m just not sure from the standpoint of jabs always having been iffy to land how losing that snare would affect it.

Qbiken · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

You could tell me I'm wrong about some of these, but then you'd be wrong. Here's a concise list of abilities/effects that do not need snare and should have that portion removed or modified. Let me know if I missed anything.

Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweep - in case you didn't know, Templars have a football field sized snare called Sacred Ground.

Sun Fire (all morphs) - see above. Remove snare and increase damage a bit to compensate.

Summon Storm Atronach - this ultimate packs plenty of power and utility without the need for the permasnare. The extra "utility" you gain from abusing the targeting system is enough, the snare is way overkill.

Summon Unstable Familiar (and morphs) - these dumb pets apply the generic "hit from behind" auto-snare that NPC enemies apply. Stahp it.

Permafrost / Norther Storm - reduce from 70% to 30% snare. This ult is way overloaded - it deals mammoth damage and grants AoE Major Protection in addition to all it's ancillary effects. AOE... Major Protection. AOE though.

Silver Leash - maybe change it to ONLY apply the snare if the enemy can't be pulled (aka CC immune). Silver Shards is fine.

Shrouded Daggers - it's fine if Flying Blade keeps the snare because it's single target. SD already deals really nice damage to 2 additional targets.

Bombard - the size and damage of the AOE very generous, and the root is incredibly powerful and sometimes abusive in battlegrounds. If players want the snare they can pick Acid Spray.

Razor Caltrops - the 3-second 70% snare needs to get the heck out. The 30% perma-snare is plenty.

Winterborn - the snare is downright nasty. Remove the snare and allow the proc to ignore 20% of enemy spell resistance. It is a very spikey spike after all.

Let's restore some sanity to battlegrounds and let us have a tiny bit more room to breath and fight normally without feeling like we're constantly stuck in waist-deep mud.

Jabs: Only the final hit applies a snare and since they templar has to be in your face to actually get the snare I think it´s fine.

Sun Fire: Agree

Atronach: I´m fine with ultimates being strong (to a certain degree), what bothers me with atronach is that there´s nothing in skill description that indicates that the skill applies a snare. Fix tooltip or remove the snare.

Permafrost: I´m fine with this skill applying a snare, it´s a high cost ultimate and I think ultimates should be strong. Fix so that the skill shows a red indicator (like destro ult) so you can counter it easier.

Shrouder daggers, bombard caltrops = Agree.

Winterborn: The snare last for 2-3 seconds, but I like your idea so will agree on the suggestion.

One skill I would like to add is Heroic Slash. It does too much. Snare, high damage, ult regen and maim. What I would like to change with slash:

Remove the snare completely. Deep slash applies minor maim and heroic slash applies minor heroism. Also lower the damage tooltip of base morph.

ESO_Nightingale · March 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

You could tell me I'm wrong about some of these, but then you'd be wrong. Here's a concise list of abilities/effects that do not need snare and should have that portion removed or modified. Let me know if I missed anything.

Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweep - in case you didn't know, Templars have a football field sized snare called Sacred Ground.

Sun Fire (all morphs) - see above. Remove snare and increase damage a bit to compensate.

Summon Storm Atronach - this ultimate packs plenty of power and utility without the need for the permasnare. The extra "utility" you gain from abusing the targeting system is enough, the snare is way overkill.

Summon Unstable Familiar (and morphs) - these dumb pets apply the generic "hit from behind" auto-snare that NPC enemies apply. Stahp it.

Permafrost / Norther Storm - reduce from 70% to 30% snare. This ult is way overloaded - it deals mammoth damage and grants AoE Major Protection in addition to all it's ancillary effects. AOE... Major Protection. AOE though.

Silver Leash - maybe change it to ONLY apply the snare if the enemy can't be pulled (aka CC immune). Silver Shards is fine.

Shrouded Daggers - it's fine if Flying Blade keeps the snare because it's single target. SD already deals really nice damage to 2 additional targets.

Bombard - the size and damage of the AOE very generous, and the root is incredibly powerful and sometimes abusive in battlegrounds. If players want the snare they can pick Acid Spray.

Razor Caltrops - the 3-second 70% snare needs to get the heck out. The 30% perma-snare is plenty.

Winterborn - the snare is downright nasty. Remove the snare and allow the proc to ignore 20% of enemy spell resistance. It is a very spikey spike after all.

Let's restore some sanity to battlegrounds and let us have a tiny bit more room to breath and fight normally without feeling like we're constantly stuck in waist-deep mud.

Jabs: Only the final hit applies a snare and since they templar has to be in your face to actually get the snare I think it´s fine.

Sun Fire: Agree

Atronach: I´m fine with ultimates being strong (to a certain degree), what bothers me with atronach is that there´s nothing in skill description that indicates that the skill applies a snare. Fix tooltip or remove the snare.

Permafrost: I´m fine with this skill applying a snare, it´s a high cost ultimate and I think ultimates should be strong. Fix so that the skill shows a red indicator (like destro ult) so you can counter it easier.

Shrouder daggers, bombard caltrops = Agree.

Winterborn: The snare last for 2-3 seconds, but I like your idea so will agree on the suggestion.

One skill I would like to add is Heroic Slash. It does too much. Snare, high damage, ult regen and maim. What I would like to change with slash:

Remove the snare completely. Deep slash applies minor maim and heroic slash applies minor heroism. Also lower the damage tooltip of base morph.

i still think sleet deserves a reduction from 70% snare to 30% it does a lot but locking down enemies like it does in pvp is very harsh. been a lot of complaining and i see why people think it deserves a nerf. However a nerf to its snare should be accompanied by a buff to other areas of magden. it's power is focused in deep fissure and sleet storm only. not many damage skills at its disposal.

Alucardo · March 2019

I'm all for losing the snare on jabs if they fix this skill. It's already hard enough to hit people with it. My guess is the snare was just a band-aid fix because nobody could land it. Turn it into a melee ranged instant cast spear and modify damage values accordingly, then remove the snare.
For everything else in the OP, I agree with wholeheartedly.

Solariken · March 2019

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm all for losing the snare on jabs if they fix this skill. It's already hard enough to hit people with it. My guess is the snare was just a band-aid fix because nobody could land it. Turn it into a melee ranged instant cast spear and modify damage values accordingly, then remove the snare.
For everything else in the OP, I agree with wholeheartedly.

Jabs is tough to land at times but the damage is fine. The current snare was added as an afterthought after the removal of the knockback effect that it used to have.

However players should not be encouraged to sit back and spam this skill, and needs to be set up with another skill. Any stun works wonderfully, and every stamina weapon line has an easy-to-use snare.

Let's just remove the snare from jabs and call it a day.

Alucardo · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm all for losing the snare on jabs if they fix this skill. It's already hard enough to hit people with it. My guess is the snare was just a band-aid fix because nobody could land it. Turn it into a melee ranged instant cast spear and modify damage values accordingly, then remove the snare.
For everything else in the OP, I agree with wholeheartedly.

Jabs is tough to land at times but the damage is fine. The current snare was added as an afterthought after the removal of the knockback effect that it used to have.

However players should not be encouraged to sit back and spam this skill, and needs to be set up with another skill. Any stun works wonderfully, and every stamina weapon line has an easy-to-use snare.

Let's just remove the snare from jabs and call it a day.

Ah yes, now I remember. That annoying knockback.

Anyway, I could write pages about how broken jabs is and how I'd want it reworked, but that's a thread for another day. On topic though, I wouldn't entirely miss the snare. After all, the less damn snares in this game, the better for everyone.

Crixus8000 · March 2019

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

90% of snares in this game should be done away with. And that's being generous.

This.

Snares should be something you use skill to apply, in timing them with other abilities or stopping someone from escaping/chasing. They shouldn't be free on almost every skill and be so effective. And I just hate that combat in pvp is basically just spamming snare removal over and over, it makes it feel so boring and sluggish.

Skander · March 2019

Sun fire it's the only thing that keeps templar from just sheate its weapons when chasing someone

Solariken · March 2019

Skander wrote: »

Sun fire it's the only thing that keeps templar from just sheate its weapons when chasing someone

How bout that gap closer tho... Or Frost/Shock Reach. Or the ocean of snares in Sacred Ground.

Alucardo · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Sun fire it's the only thing that keeps templar from just sheate its weapons when chasing someone

How bout that gap closer tho... Or Frost/Shock Reach. Or the ocean of snares in Sacred Ground.

Or javelin

Minno · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Sun fire it's the only thing that keeps templar from just sheate its weapons when chasing someone

How bout that gap closer tho... Or Frost/Shock Reach. Or the ocean of snares in Sacred Ground.

I'd trade my snare off sun fire if my gap closer worked like streak. In fact give me a spear charge that let's me pick the direction, sets targets in it off balance and knocks them down; ill trade javelin + total dark cc for that lol

DoonerSeraph · March 2019

Minno wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Sun fire it's the only thing that keeps templar from just sheate its weapons when chasing someone

How bout that gap closer tho... Or Frost/Shock Reach. Or the ocean of snares in Sacred Ground.

I'd trade my snare off sun fire if my gap closer worked like streak. In fact give me a spear charge that let's me pick the direction, sets targets in it off balance and knocks them down; ill trade javelin + total dark cc for that lol

Yes, make it a jump stabbing the spear on the ground and exploding it, and knockdown like leap, with lower dmg ofc.

Dracan_Fontom · March 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

90% of snares in this game should be done away with. And that's being generous.

Not only Snares but CCs in general. But Snares are the worst and they are basically everywhere.

I disagree entirely. Hard CCs should get diminishing returns where each subsequent stun is weaker than the last. Plus i think immobilizes need to be broaden as well, with of course diminishing returns. Getting rid of CCs wouldn't do anything, and I believe that's a poor thing to do.

SodanTok · March 2019

Rending. Maybe unpopular opinion, but its bad design if everyone is snared because snare is on most popular ability in game that is not used for snaring at all.

Rikumaru · March 2019

I don't actually mind jab's snare, there's counterplay to it, infact i would rather have it apply to all enemies hit by the final hit, not just one person. The snare I hate from the templar kit though, is the cleanse. It's a giant 30% AOE snare, there's literally nothing you can do about it. I would rather it give the templar's and it's allies minor expedition and remove the snare from it.

Solariken · March 2019

SodanTok wrote: »

Rending. Maybe unpopular opinion, but its bad design if everyone is snared because snare is on most popular ability in game that is not used for snaring at all.

That's a really good point @SodanTok... But the snare does make sense thematically though and definitely helps keep melee uptime in PvP.

That's basically why I don't think they should nerf the snares on Rending, Stampede, and Heroic Slash: they are single target and help you stay on the target.

Melee builds can be really hard to play in this battleground meta, I wouldn't want to make it even harder until after the dumbest snares are dealt with

ChunkyCat · March 2019

No one needs gap closers anymore. We’re all stuck in the same place >,>

BlackMadara · March 2019

Templars need a snare, and I think its healthier if it's on jabs instead of sun fire or their purge. Jabs is an small, conal aoe channel that you must actually aim for the entirety of the channel. Setting a cc, into a jab allows an almost guarantee of the full channel, which should be awarded with a snare to hit further jabs. Maybe lower the duration of the snare so it only guarantees the next jab channel to hit, and not another ability and then another jab.

Agree with pet snares

Permafrost etc needs a snare but I agree that it is overloaded. Perhaps lower the snare and give it a synergy that procs major protection and a root?

Silver leash snare makes sense. Pull and slow for peeling and catches.

I don't think hidden blade should have a snare. It seems rather random. Dual wield, a melee weapon, already has access to a snare and speed boost. I am of the same opinion for other single target, high damage spammables, like low slash.

Arrow spray needs a snare. It is one of the tools for a kiting playstyle for bow. It has rather low damage, and is used for control in fights.

Razor caltrops, as I've said before, is an example of what snares should be. Large, expensive, low damage aoe that had a powerful snare at the beginning and a smaller one at the end. Spamming caltrops to keep the 70% snare is inefficient and expensive, so it shouldn't be something that is nerfed.

By winterborn, do you mean the set? If so, how is a 60%, 3m, 8% chance proc a problem?

Snares should be adjusted, removed in some cases, and lowered in others. Some of the abilities you list should have a snare from a total gameplay and kit perspective.

max_only · March 2019

Dear god, y’all just don’t think about thing else other than pvp huh?

Tanking is a thankless job as it is and you want to remove everything? Silver Leash? Permafrost? Razor Caltrops? Any tank who isn’t dk can just delete themselves basically. Please let this be an exaggerated troll post.

Just delete pvp at this point, holy carp.

Draxys · March 2019

max_only wrote: »

an exaggerated troll post.

Interesting choice of words given the context.