Malevolent offering doesn't proc "damage received" things

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

So i decided to give NB tanking another chance and try to build around malevolent offering as a proc of "damage received" things like bloodspawn.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work, though damage from healthy offering have a lot of ticks in combat metrics. Meanwhile ravage health/gradual ravage health potion proc bloodspawn, nord racial and werewolf hide set like clock. I tested it too on like 10 minutes intervals and number of procs was ~ 6% minus ticks in time when bloodspawn is on cooldown.

So question is if this is a known issue, or new bug, or old bug nobody cares to fix.

Iskiab · March 2019

I found the same thing. Someone said they thought it was intentional to make sure someone couldn’t create an unintentionally powerful build. I race changed to nord and was disappointed too... sigh, I’ll have to use another race change token.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

I found the same thing. Someone said they thought it was intentional to make sure someone couldn’t create an unintentionally powerful build. I race changed to nord and was disappointed too... sigh, I’ll have to use another race change token.

So basically all in this game which exists outside of dk tank, templar healer, nb dps, petsorc and support warden should be restricted, forbidden, nerfed, not working, not scaling, bugged etc...

Btw, my mains are magblade dps and dk tank, so it's not like anti-meta sentence, it's just attempts to find something new in this game.

And of course malevolent offering doesn't scale of max resource, it scales only from magicka while costs health and of course on my "test" tank HP is much more then magicka.

exeeter702 · March 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I found the same thing. Someone said they thought it was intentional to make sure someone couldn’t create an unintentionally powerful build. I race changed to nord and was disappointed too... sigh, I’ll have to use another race change token.

So basically all in this game which exists outside of dk tank, templar healer, nb dps, petsorc and support warden should be restricted, forbidden, nerfed, not working, not scaling, bugged etc...

Btw, my mains are magblade dps and dk tank, so it's not like anti-meta sentence, it's just attempts to find something new in this game.

And of course malevolent offering doesn't scale of max resource, it scales only from magicka while costs health and of course on my "test" tank HP is much more then magicka.

Frist, malevolent offering triggering on damage procs would be very strong. This is intentional.

Second, malevolent offering is not a tank tool, it is a dedicated healer tool of which the it is literally the strongest single target in the game. The heal value is very weak on a tank, and would help very little if an actual healer is present. If a tank is going to slot it, they are going to slot healthy offering for the minor mending for pvp and to bolster the actual NB tank self heal, dark cloak.

And lastly, NB healers can, with flying colors, compete against a templar healer in the hardest end game healing environments.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I found the same thing. Someone said they thought it was intentional to make sure someone couldn’t create an unintentionally powerful build. I race changed to nord and was disappointed too... sigh, I’ll have to use another race change token.

So basically all in this game which exists outside of dk tank, templar healer, nb dps, petsorc and support warden should be restricted, forbidden, nerfed, not working, not scaling, bugged etc...

Btw, my mains are magblade dps and dk tank, so it's not like anti-meta sentence, it's just attempts to find something new in this game.

And of course malevolent offering doesn't scale of max resource, it scales only from magicka while costs health and of course on my "test" tank HP is much more then magicka.

Frist, malevolent offering triggering on damage procs would be very strong. This is intentional.

Second, malevolent offering is not a tank tool, it is a dedicated healer tool of which the it is literally the strongest single target in the game. The heal value is very weak on a tank, and would help very little if an actual healer is present. If a tank is going to slot it, they are going to slot healthy offering for the minor mending for pvp and to bolster the actual NB tank self heal, dark cloak.

And lastly, NB healers can, with flying colors, compete against a templar healer in the hardest end game healing environments.

Proves to all this?
Who said that this is intentional? And as i said other sources of self-damage are working just fine and you may receive amazing number of bloodspawn procs and crazy ulit gen with ravage health potion.
Value on tank.. increased bloodspawn procs, guaranteed uptime on nord passive and ww hide set. Don't begin to tell me obvious things about ebon, alkosh and what tank should do, if you'll look into combat metrics reports you'll see that there is ton of boss fights where tank receives rather low number of hits per second and there is off-tank which often is not under heave pressure, so he can utilize malevolent offering just fine.
Nb healer competes with templar, okay, if you say so. I don't remember when I saw NB tank or healer in trial last time, but i'm in rather commoner guilds, hodor and valor probably run NBs for those roles quite often.

exeeter702 · March 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I found the same thing. Someone said they thought it was intentional to make sure someone couldn’t create an unintentionally powerful build. I race changed to nord and was disappointed too... sigh, I’ll have to use another race change token.

So basically all in this game which exists outside of dk tank, templar healer, nb dps, petsorc and support warden should be restricted, forbidden, nerfed, not working, not scaling, bugged etc...

Btw, my mains are magblade dps and dk tank, so it's not like anti-meta sentence, it's just attempts to find something new in this game.

And of course malevolent offering doesn't scale of max resource, it scales only from magicka while costs health and of course on my "test" tank HP is much more then magicka.

Frist, malevolent offering triggering on damage procs would be very strong. This is intentional.

Second, malevolent offering is not a tank tool, it is a dedicated healer tool of which the it is literally the strongest single target in the game. The heal value is very weak on a tank, and would help very little if an actual healer is present. If a tank is going to slot it, they are going to slot healthy offering for the minor mending for pvp and to bolster the actual NB tank self heal, dark cloak.

And lastly, NB healers can, with flying colors, compete against a templar healer in the hardest end game healing environments.

Proves to all this?
Who said that this is intentional? And as i said other sources of self-damage are working just fine and you may receive amazing number of bloodspawn procs and crazy ulit gen with ravage health potion.
Value on tank.. increased bloodspawn procs, guaranteed uptime on nord passive and ww hide set. Don't begin to tell me obvious things about ebon, alkosh and what tank should do, if you'll look into combat metrics reports you'll see that there is ton of boss fights where tank receives rather low number of hits per second and there is off-tank which often is not under heave pressure, so he can utilize malevolent offering just fine.
Nb healer competes with templar, okay, if you say so. I don't remember when I saw NB tank or healer in trial last time, but i'm in rather commoner guilds, hodor and valor probably run NBs for those roles quite often.

Let me be more concise here.

Self inflicted damage to trigger on hit effects itslef isnt the issue. Self damaging potions come with the cost of giving up your pot CD. Malevolent offering comes with a massive burst heal. While on your tank this heal to allies is rather negligible, if my NB healer in BGs for example were able to wear bloodspawn and use offerings dots to feed me ult ticks while im throwing 13k burst heals through walls / los and avoiding damage with image and kiting, on top of catalyst and transfer passives, i would be a problem to say the least. Now you could make the case for adjusting the (imo) useless shrewed offering morph to be a more attractive tool for tanks then sure, one such suggestion i had early on was to make that morph provide minor vitality to the user for the duration as that would make it a more selfish option vs the purely selfless healthy offering for healers.

And the single advantage templar has over nb healers in pve is access to an additional synergy for alkosh uptime. However that is a marginal discrepancy that can be covered in a number of ways. As far as HPS throughput and utility, they are matched. Tanking is also not as lopsided as many claim, but admittedly, still favors DK more so than healer favors templar.

VaxtinTheWolf · March 2019

It used to proc monster sets, like Grothdarr and Blood spawn. Partly my fault since I mentioned that in a PTS a while ago and it was "fixed" a little later.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

It used to proc monster sets, like Grothdarr and Blood spawn. Partly my fault since I mentioned that in a PTS a while ago and it was "fixed" a little later.

Thanks for info! It's exactly what i want to know, no point to create bug report then. R.I.P. NB tanking

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I found the same thing. Someone said they thought it was intentional to make sure someone couldn’t create an unintentionally powerful build. I race changed to nord and was disappointed too... sigh, I’ll have to use another race change token.

So basically all in this game which exists outside of dk tank, templar healer, nb dps, petsorc and support warden should be restricted, forbidden, nerfed, not working, not scaling, bugged etc...

Btw, my mains are magblade dps and dk tank, so it's not like anti-meta sentence, it's just attempts to find something new in this game.

And of course malevolent offering doesn't scale of max resource, it scales only from magicka while costs health and of course on my "test" tank HP is much more then magicka.

Frist, malevolent offering triggering on damage procs would be very strong. This is intentional.

Second, malevolent offering is not a tank tool, it is a dedicated healer tool of which the it is literally the strongest single target in the game. The heal value is very weak on a tank, and would help very little if an actual healer is present. If a tank is going to slot it, they are going to slot healthy offering for the minor mending for pvp and to bolster the actual NB tank self heal, dark cloak.

And lastly, NB healers can, with flying colors, compete against a templar healer in the hardest end game healing environments.

Proves to all this?
Who said that this is intentional? And as i said other sources of self-damage are working just fine and you may receive amazing number of bloodspawn procs and crazy ulit gen with ravage health potion.
Value on tank.. increased bloodspawn procs, guaranteed uptime on nord passive and ww hide set. Don't begin to tell me obvious things about ebon, alkosh and what tank should do, if you'll look into combat metrics reports you'll see that there is ton of boss fights where tank receives rather low number of hits per second and there is off-tank which often is not under heave pressure, so he can utilize malevolent offering just fine.
Nb healer competes with templar, okay, if you say so. I don't remember when I saw NB tank or healer in trial last time, but i'm in rather commoner guilds, hodor and valor probably run NBs for those roles quite often.

Let me be more concise here.

Self inflicted damage to trigger on hit effects itslef isnt the issue. Self damaging potions come with the cost of giving up your pot CD. Malevolent offering comes with a massive burst heal. While on your tank this heal to allies is rather negligible, if my NB healer in BGs for example were able to wear bloodspawn and use offerings dots to feed me ult ticks while im throwing 13k burst heals through walls / los and avoiding damage with image and kiting, on top of catalyst and transfer passives, i would be a problem to say the least. Now you could make the case for adjusting the (imo) useless shrewed offering morph to be a more attractive tool for tanks then sure, one such suggestion i had early on was to make that morph provide minor vitality to the user for the duration as that would make it a more selfish option vs the purely selfless healthy offering for healers.

And the single advantage templar has over nb healers in pve is access to an additional synergy for alkosh uptime. However that is a marginal discrepancy that can be covered in a number of ways. As far as HPS throughput and utility, they are matched. Tanking is also not as lopsided as many claim, but admittedly, still favors DK more so than healer favors templar.

Yep, it was exactly my thoughts to build super ultimate build for off-tanking, with alchemy enchants and so on

now i understand that this will also proc Seventh legion in PVP and will make stamNB argonians crazy OP with clever alchemist.

exeeter702 · March 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

It used to proc monster sets, like Grothdarr and Blood spawn. Partly my fault since I mentioned that in a PTS a while ago and it was "fixed" a little later.

Thanks for info! It's exactly what i want to know, no point to create bug report then. R.I.P. NB tanking

The only thing that RIPd night blade tanking was the major evasion change.

Royaji · March 2019

I believe Balance also does not proc any "when you take damage" effects. Which to me makes sense since skills that cost health are not the same as incoming damage.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

It used to proc monster sets, like Grothdarr and Blood spawn. Partly my fault since I mentioned that in a PTS a while ago and it was "fixed" a little later.

Thanks for info! It's exactly what i want to know, no point to create bug report then. R.I.P. NB tanking

The only thing that RIPd night blade tanking was the major evasion change.

Of course.. and it all started from testing I've done on DK and trying to find ways to increase bloodspawn proc rate. From my measurements player need to receive 2-3 hits per second to make 5-6 bs procs per minute, so ravage health/gradual ravage health works greatly, but it's quite strong dot to use in hard conditions (1000+600 HP damage each second, plus initial 10k on usage), not to say that you don't receive any resources if you are not argonian. But I think you may use ravage health/restore stamina potion with malevolent offering for same effect and if we add malevolent spamming with potion spamming and wear akaviri dragonguard some crazy horn uptime was expected. Unfortunately, PVP side effects will make this impossible.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

^ sry for grammar times mash-up, too complex thoughts to translate properly

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

So i submitted bug ticket anyway. Let them fix description at least so other players won't waste gold/time/tokens on this.

Vajrak · March 2019

I have to ask, because I'm not seeing the leap of logic here that lets you think this would work in the first place, when you consider other sets with the same proc condition, instead of just the single set in isolation:

WHY would malevolent let you self proc? Would you like to see that on any of the other sets:
Lord Warden
Pirate Skeleton
Shadowrend
Brands of Imperium
Grace of Gloom
Hand of Mephala
Haven of Ursus
Ironblood
Storm Knight's Plate
Seventh Legion Brute
Hide of the Werewolf

Leeching Plate---so you are the attacker in this case, so the cloud drains you?
Scourge Harvester---again you caused the damage, so now you drain your own hp?

At cost of just a cast, not even consistent/niche moments (like the ravage potions, which stack a DoT on you and eat your pot CD)...apply some logic, if you would think it would be overpowered to be able to self-proc these sets, or contradictory (like Scourge Harvester/Leeching Plate) then the only test needed is that the coding is right, not for a way to abuse the system. And how many ults do you need, in combat conditions for a tank, you should be building ult fast with getting hit, la/ha, and small HoTs tossed out.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

Vajrak wrote: »

I have to ask, because I'm not seeing the leap of logic here that lets you think this would work in the first place, when you consider other sets with the same proc condition, instead of just the single set in isolation:

WHY would malevolent let you self proc? Would you like to see that on any of the other sets:
Lord Warden
Pirate Skeleton
Shadowrend
Brands of Imperium
Grace of Gloom
Hand of Mephala
Haven of Ursus
Ironblood
Storm Knight's Plate
Seventh Legion Brute
Hide of the Werewolf

Leeching Plate---so you are the attacker in this case, so the cloud drains you?
Scourge Harvester---again you caused the damage, so now you drain your own hp?

At cost of just a cast, not even consistent/niche moments (like the ravage potions, which stack a DoT on you and eat your pot CD)...apply some logic, if you would think it would be overpowered to be able to self-proc these sets, or contradictory (like Scourge Harvester/Leeching Plate) then the only test needed is that the coding is right, not for a way to abuse the system. And how many ults do you need, in combat conditions for a tank, you should be building ult fast with getting hit, la/ha, and small HoTs tossed out.

There are very different encounters in ESO. Yes there are figths where you are consistently hit like 2-3 times per second and there are a lot of bloodspawn procs. But there are a lot when boss makes rather rare but very strong hits and adds hit you maybe 1 time per second at max, and then bloodspawn starts to suck from RNG.

About exploits in PVP I already agreed that fixing that thing will open a door for a lot of exploits. About downsides with some sets, well nobody forces you to use that combination.

And you can never have enough ulti, even if you have 100% horn uptime with all the healers and mechanics which often require healer or tank to use other ults to ensure group protection, even then you need more of major force uptime.

Anyway ZOS should make it clear, because as you may see some persons already race changed their NBs to Nords... so this is practically a wasted token because of ZOS unclear descriptions.

Iskiab · March 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyway ZOS should make it clear, because as you may see some persons already race changed their NBs to Nords... so this is practically a wasted token because of ZOS unclear descriptions.

Hey this is me! I’m lucky though, all my healers are already Breton except my main. If we only got one race change token I’d probably be salty, but we got 3 so it’s given me the opportunity to try out different races on my main for in game testing.

Nords are still decent, NB healing ultimates are the best in game, but it’s just not AS good as I was hoping it’d be. Nord still saves you 1-2 transmutations on your rings to protective.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyway ZOS should make it clear, because as you may see some persons already race changed their NBs to Nords... so this is practically a wasted token because of ZOS unclear descriptions.

Hey this is me! I’m lucky though, all my healers are already Breton except my main. If we only got one race change token I’d probably be salty, but we got 3 so it’s given me the opportunity to try out different races on my main for in game testing.

Nords are still decent, NB healing ultimates are the best in game, but it’s just not AS good as I was hoping it’d be. Nord still saves you 1-2 transmutations on your rings to protective.

Well, maybe I should make this NB a healer then

rav/rav potion works on healer much better then on tank

and those heals.. recently slotted MO on my other magblade when we had fake healer. Those 75% chance 30k crit heals are something

brandonv516 · March 2019

Just to add to this thread, Offering does waste Wyrd Tree if you try that set out.

It creates the self DoT, Wyrd Tree attempts to purge it (even though it cannot), and now you are on a cooldown for nothing.

exeeter702 · March 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

Just to add to this thread, Offering does waste Wyrd Tree if you try that set out.

It creates the self DoT, Wyrd Tree attempts to purge it (even though it cannot), and now you are on a cooldown for nothing.

Good call.

Iskiab · March 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, maybe I should make this NB a healer then rav/rav potion works on healer much better then on tank and those heals.. recently slotted MO on my other magblade when we had fake healer. Those 75% chance 30k crit heals are something

Yea, NBs are good healers. Most people are morons who’ve never tested a thing in their lives, so don’t let anyone tell you differently.

In PvE they’re exactly like templars except instead of ritual you have refreshing path. Refreshing ticks twice as often but the area is a lot smaller. Biggest thing is no shards, you need to use orbs instead. Other than that they’re exactly the same... but NB has sap essence and cloak. NB also have better healing passives. Despite Sap Essence I’ve found in vets my Templar has better dps because shards spam is so strong.

Templars are moreso an aoe healer and NB a ST healer, so for trials people prefer templars because it’s all aoe damage. For stacking fights - if - the raid is stacked like in HOF NBs actually have higher HPS because of refreshing path. In any situation where the raid can’t be in the little area Templars are better. The cleanse/purge thing on ritual is overrated, all healers use the support ability instead and you can’t count on team mates to use the purge synergy.

In pvp they’re a lot different. Templars have to block cast and try to tank. NBs try to be elusive. That 30k MO crit gets reduced a lot with healing halved and proper defenses for pvp. It’s more like 6k and 9k crits. Templars are better hybrids, dipping into magblade as a NB healer doesn’t make sense because magblade is so weak right now.

I prefer PvE healing on my Templar and PvP healing on my NB. Still leveling my warden so don’t know about them first hand yet.