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Sub Assault often hits twice in one cast
Solariken
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We need to talk about an issue with Subterranean Assault. I know a lot of you have seen this happen, it's not really that rare. Sub Assault very often hits twice in a single cast. If you know how to reproduce this, please let ZOS know so they can get this fixed. I suspect that Sub Assault does not hit the whole area at once but moves forward like a wave, such that if you are running/rolling away from the warden (or if he is running toward you) there can be a double proc whenever you are in the small area between shalks in the animation.
I could be wrong though, because it seems that in all the recaps where this has happened, the 1st instance of damage is larger. The second instance should be the larger damage because the second one would theoretically be the one that benefits from Major Fracture.
This screencap is one of many examples of times when I've been 1-bang hundy-zero dead from a stamwarden combo from behind, from full health. I run 30k hp with 26k resists in Shor PC/NA, there is no way this combo would insta kill me without a double hit. This ability is way overtuned as it is, we don't need it double hitting. Please fix.
I could be wrong though, because it seems that in all the recaps where this has happened, the 1st instance of damage is larger. The second instance should be the larger damage because the second one would theoretically be the one that benefits from Major Fracture.
This screencap is one of many examples of times when I've been 1-bang hundy-zero dead from a stamwarden combo from behind, from full health. I run 30k hp with 26k resists in Shor PC/NA, there is no way this combo would insta kill me without a double hit. This ability is way overtuned as it is, we don't need it double hitting. Please fix.
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I always wondered how that happened. Sometimes you get subassualt, DBoS, subassualt DBoS, and it never made sense.0 -
Stridig✭✭✭✭✭
✭It needs to be toned down a bit too. Shouldn't hit as hard as it does.Enemy to many
Friend to all2 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭This has happened so many times to me. I assumed it was just an overpowered skill as I've never really looked into it0 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Huh. Ive seen this literally scores of times. Didnt ever think it was a bug, but considering how fast the warden burst is, makes sense that it couldnt be 2 casts0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Huh. Ive seen this literally scores of times. Didnt ever think it was a bug, but considering how fast the warden burst is, makes sense that it couldnt be 2 casts
There's no way. I would not consider 3 seconds "fast" by any stretch. In the screenshot above I was instagibbed just like many other times where I've been hit twice at once. Dead before I could even break free from DBOS.1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno You mind passing this along to appropriate peeps?Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Huh. Ive seen this literally scores of times. Didnt ever think it was a bug, but considering how fast the warden burst is, makes sense that it couldnt be 2 casts
There's no way. I would not consider 3 seconds "fast" by any stretch. In the screenshot above I was instagibbed just like many other times where I've been hit twice at once. Dead before I could even break free from DBOS.
You misunderstand. You can land sub assault, db and a spin to win within roughly a global cooldown. But you cant land 2 sub assaults since it has a 3 second delay
edit: I was agreeing with youEdited by iCaliban on March 6, 2019 7:11PM0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Huh. Ive seen this literally scores of times. Didnt ever think it was a bug, but considering how fast the warden burst is, makes sense that it couldnt be 2 casts
There's no way. I would not consider 3 seconds "fast" by any stretch. In the screenshot above I was instagibbed just like many other times where I've been hit twice at once. Dead before I could even break free from DBOS.
You misunderstand. You can land sub assault, db and a spin to win within roughly a global cooldown. But you cant land 2 sub assaults since it has a 3 second delay
edit: I was agreeing with you
Oh lol my bad,
I tried for a while today on my stamwarden to reproduce on NPCs but no luck.0 -
irswat✭✭✭✭please dont nerf sub assault because of pvp. without sub assault stamwarden is useless
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm curious, are the folks on PC seeing subterranean assault land twice in their combat logs as well?
Not to doubt your recollection of the timing, but I do find that the death recap screens tend to display effects more oddly at times than the combat logs, which at least have the timestamps to double check the timing.0 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your screenshot only proves that you were hit twice by Sub assault in between a Dawnbreaker. Looks like you need to learn to position yourself not to eat those beetles.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Honestly in my opinion simple test of putting two dummies 20m far apart is good enough test to prove sub assault hits whole areas instantly.
As for this bug cant say much more, dont remember ever noticing it as sub assault user or victim.0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It doesnt hit twice. The death recap has no time stamps. I am pretty sure the first one hit you 3+ seconds before the second one.
But the ability is the most OP (PvP wise) in the game. It can be synchronized with other players, it is cheap, it is 20m AoE with amazing range and it hits as an ulti. Basically you have a dawnbreaker every 3 seconds.Because I can!3 -
Raevyness✭✭✭
That is correct, if you time the rotations well and use only 2-3 dps skills you can proc sub, stun, hit (sub pops), reapply sub, and repeat and this can happen in a span of 6 seconds from the sub being hit first, procing & then reapply + hit. Personally when I pvp, sub is hit endlessly regardless as to whether enemies are 1m away or 30m away due to gap closers. And if you think about it you can reduce that down to about 4 seconds if you see your target and are well prepared...It doesnt hit twice. The death recap has no time stamps. I am pretty sure the first one hit you 3+ seconds before the second one.
Consider the picture, it appears as though the player has been hit at the last second by sub the first time (maybe some 4m away from the player) then the player has used DBoS, potentially while they are trying to break free or run away, seconds after DBoS is dropped hit sub, and in a high ping player sub has proced a second time and then they've followed with a execute. It can be done and you must consider different pings and platforms before ruling it out. E.g. Is it on Xbox or PS4, what country? How far from the servers? How fast internet connection? On the PC? What's the ping like, any lag? Etc, etc.
Not quite true, sub doesn't have a stun (it was removed from deep fissure) and also, if you are stunned or have certain CC/interrupt abilities applied to you, your sub will cancel as it has a 3sec delay, where as dawnbreaker is instant. Don't get me wrong, sub is a good/powerful skill when used correctly, but it can be totally useless if you don't know how to play or line it up with other skills.Basically you have a dawnbreaker every 3 seconds.
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Raevyness✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Agree, I think it's fine as is. Not only is it delayed by 3 seconds, but it only hits in a straight line (line of sight) and is very easily dodge-able. To nerf it or 'toned down' would render it practically useless because of its pre existing delay and line of sight limits. It wouldn't be worth the skill points spent.2 -
Raevyness✭✭✭I always wondered how that happened. Sometimes you get subassualt, DBoS, subassualt DBoS, and it never made sense.
Actually, thats a good point, I've seen the exact same thing happening with DBoS and scratch my head at the idea that DBoS has proc'd twice without any kind of delay, etc as its an ulti ability. I can get subassualt, but DBoS I don't understand how it can proc twice. Dunno why no one mentions that though.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Death recaps are useless. You need to use a time stamped combat log to prove something like this.
A fight only needs to be around 3 seconds long for there to be 2 subs used legitimately.3 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I always wondered how that happened. Sometimes you get subassualt, DBoS, subassualt DBoS, and it never made sense.
Actually, thats a good point, I've seen the exact same thing happening with DBoS and scratch my head at the idea that DBoS has proc'd twice without any kind of delay, etc as its an ulti ability. I can get subassualt, but DBoS I don't understand how it can proc twice. Dunno why no one mentions that though.
Dawnbreaker has 2 damage components, the strike and the DOT, so yes it shows as 2 entries on your recap.5 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Death recaps are useless. You need to use a time stamped combat log to prove something like this.
A fight only needs to be around 3 seconds long for there to be 2 subs used legitimately.
The native death recap is indeed a crappy tool but I swear to all things holy this was an instagib. I've seen it a huge number of times and have many friends that have confirmed this happening. This was Shor PC/NA ~120 ping. I've seen it many times in BGs as well where there is rarely any lag.
Also, 3 seconds is an ETERNITY in PvP combat. I can break free, heal up, and counter CC before a second subA hits me.Edited by Solariken on March 7, 2019 12:28PM1 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Death recaps are useless. You need to use a time stamped combat log to prove something like this.
A fight only needs to be around 3 seconds long for there to be 2 subs used legitimately.
The native death recap is indeed a crappy tool but I swear to all things holy this was an instagib. I've seen it a huge number of times and have many friends that have confirmed this happening. This was Shor PC/NA ~120 ping. I've seen it many times in BGs as well where there is rarely any lag.
Also, 3 seconds is an ETERNITY in PvP combat. I can break free, heal up, and counter CC before a second subA hits me.
Ive seen it too. Ill see if i can get a combat log of it happening in addition to a death recap.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Death recaps are useless. You need to use a time stamped combat log to prove something like this.
A fight only needs to be around 3 seconds long for there to be 2 subs used legitimately.
The native death recap is indeed a crappy tool but I swear to all things holy this was an instagib. I've seen it a huge number of times and have many friends that have confirmed this happening. This was Shor PC/NA ~120 ping. I've seen it many times in BGs as well where there is rarely any lag.
Also, 3 seconds is an ETERNITY in PvP combat. I can break free, heal up, and counter CC before a second subA hits me.
It happened to me few times also, from full to 0 instantly and the same result 2 different damage instances of sub assault. There was no way to get hit after 3s because fight didn't last that long.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭Perhaps it wouldn't hit as hard if some of your gear weren't badly damaged and in need of repair?4
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Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Perhaps it wouldn't hit as hard if some of your gear weren't badly damaged and in need of repair?
Well if it ain't broke don't fix it XD1 -
robpr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also you lot overestimate the whole 'Super clear telegraph'. Super clearly telegraphed is rune cage, that appear above your head. When you are fighting another person with over 9k flashy effects you have no way to notice those fkin bugs coming from side or back.4 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also you lot overestimate the whole 'Super clear telegraph'. Super clearly telegraphed is rune cage, that appear above your head. When you are fighting another person with over 9k flashy effects you have no way to notice those fkin bugs coming from side or back.
When fighting a Warden, sub/fissure should be considered up all of the time, whether you can see the fx or not.
Sub, when working correctly, is fine. It's a good example of an ability with a high upside and a high downside. It's part of what makes fighting a warden fun.Edited by zyk on March 9, 2019 2:37PM0
