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Double Dot Poison Group Stacking Fixed?
ffyre
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I'm hearing the double dot poisons got fixed without anything mentioned in the patch notes - has anyone been able to test this?
Jo'Raashaa - Khajiit StamDK | Do'Zhi-ra'dala - Khajiit StamDen | Dada'la-daro - Khajiit MagPlar
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
ffyre✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?
Right. But they haven't been - it's why the stam meta has remained at weapon damage and absorb stam enchants.Jo'Raashaa - Khajiit StamDK | Do'Zhi-ra'dala - Khajiit StamDen | Dada'la-daro - Khajiit MagPlar1 -
ffyre✭✭✭Also, just to clarify - I'm talking in a group environment. Say you have 2 stam DPS with poisons on their front bars - only one of those players poisons will affect the boss. At least, that's how it *was* working - I'm hearing rumors that was fixed this patch.Edited by ffyre on March 6, 2019 2:11PMJo'Raashaa - Khajiit StamDK | Do'Zhi-ra'dala - Khajiit StamDen | Dada'la-daro - Khajiit MagPlar0
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?
That's the thing. They don't stack. I have tested it with a friend before latest update, and here you have it - a target can only have one instance of a given poison ticking on it. You can test it yourself - grab someone for company, equip same poison and hit the dummy, combat log will show that if someone else proc'd poison while yours was still ticking, yours get cancelled prematurely.
I didn't test yet after the update, but will give it a shot one of those days.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?
That's the thing. They don't stack. I have tested it with a friend before latest update, and here you have it - a target can only have one instance of a given poison ticking on it. You can test it yourself - grab someone for company, equip same poison and hit the dummy, combat log will show that if someone else proc'd poison while yours was still ticking, yours get cancelled prematurely.
I didn't test yet after the update, but will give it a shot one of those days.
probably because if you could stack poisons, you would have to stack them on players. Imagine having to purge 2x effects for each poison when a zerg applies it on you for no effect lol.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?
That's the thing. They don't stack. I have tested it with a friend before latest update, and here you have it - a target can only have one instance of a given poison ticking on it. You can test it yourself - grab someone for company, equip same poison and hit the dummy, combat log will show that if someone else proc'd poison while yours was still ticking, yours get cancelled prematurely.
I didn't test yet after the update, but will give it a shot one of those days.
probably because if you could stack poisons, you would have to stack them on players. Imagine having to purge 2x effects for each poison when a zerg applies it on you for no effect lol.
That's a valid concern, but I think all other DoTs do stack on both mobs and players now, no? Provided they're from different sources; say, a mob can have multiple Poison Injection effects ticking from different players. I assumed that it's the same with players - if yes, then no reason for poisons not to stack either, if no, then again why not make poisons behave differently in PvE as well.1 -
reprosal✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?
That's the thing. They don't stack. I have tested it with a friend before latest update, and here you have it - a target can only have one instance of a given poison ticking on it. You can test it yourself - grab someone for company, equip same poison and hit the dummy, combat log will show that if someone else proc'd poison while yours was still ticking, yours get cancelled prematurely.
I didn't test yet after the update, but will give it a shot one of those days.
probably because if you could stack poisons, you would have to stack them on players. Imagine having to purge 2x effects for each poison when a zerg applies it on you for no effect lol.
That's a valid concern, but I think all other DoTs do stack on both mobs and players now, no? Provided they're from different sources; say, a mob can have multiple Poison Injection effects ticking from different players. I assumed that it's the same with players - if yes, then no reason for poisons not to stack either, if no, then again why not make poisons behave differently in PvE as well.
Because in this game, spaghetti code is like no other game.
Change a racial passive value? Oh, look - we made an unknown damage modifier to Tames the Beast in BRP and he now teleports to Deshaan randomly sniping people from the wayshrine.4 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?
That's the thing. They don't stack. I have tested it with a friend before latest update, and here you have it - a target can only have one instance of a given poison ticking on it. You can test it yourself - grab someone for company, equip same poison and hit the dummy, combat log will show that if someone else proc'd poison while yours was still ticking, yours get cancelled prematurely.
I didn't test yet after the update, but will give it a shot one of those days.
probably because if you could stack poisons, you would have to stack them on players. Imagine having to purge 2x effects for each poison when a zerg applies it on you for no effect lol.
That's a valid concern, but I think all other DoTs do stack on both mobs and players now, no? Provided they're from different sources; say, a mob can have multiple Poison Injection effects ticking from different players. I assumed that it's the same with players - if yes, then no reason for poisons not to stack either, if no, then again why not make poisons behave differently in PvE as well.
I agree with you on this one. It's only logical that they would stack. If two guys hit me with the same bleed, I'm going to eat them both... I don't see how this would be any different.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »What are you talking about.. why WOULDN'T poisons stack?
That's the thing. They don't stack. I have tested it with a friend before latest update, and here you have it - a target can only have one instance of a given poison ticking on it. You can test it yourself - grab someone for company, equip same poison and hit the dummy, combat log will show that if someone else proc'd poison while yours was still ticking, yours get cancelled prematurely.
I didn't test yet after the update, but will give it a shot one of those days.
probably because if you could stack poisons, you would have to stack them on players. Imagine having to purge 2x effects for each poison when a zerg applies it on you for no effect lol.
That's a valid concern, but I think all other DoTs do stack on both mobs and players now, no? Provided they're from different sources; say, a mob can have multiple Poison Injection effects ticking from different players. I assumed that it's the same with players - if yes, then no reason for poisons not to stack either, if no, then again why not make poisons behave differently in PvE as well.
I agree with you on this one. It's only logical that they would stack. If two guys hit me with the same bleed, I'm going to eat them both... I don't see how this would be any different.
I think they are different. For example, you can't have 2 stacked 40% snares from 2 rending slashes. Which tells me it's an applied debuff. That is what poisons are probably coded as; player applied debuff so it ignores dodge/block. Problem is debuffs generally don't stack, and fact these are generally applied by free cost light attacks.
Best comparison for this is comparing poisons to weakening enchants; do they stack? If not, then poisons are working as intended.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
ffyre✭✭✭Best comparison for this is comparing poisons to weakening enchants; do they stack? If not, then poisons are working as intended.
Yeah, I think this is where the major interest lies in this discussion at all. With the weakened 1H enchant, the question is would you be better served running double dot poison on the front bar and weapon damage/befouled weapon on the back bar. You'd give up some sustain when you lose that stam absorb enchantment, but you'd gain some damage since the poison would make up for the halved enchant.
So I imagine you could cheese your parse a little bit with them - but in a trial you'd lose out on quite a bit if everyone is running the same poison.Edited by ffyre on March 6, 2019 6:49PMJo'Raashaa - Khajiit StamDK | Do'Zhi-ra'dala - Khajiit StamDen | Dada'la-daro - Khajiit MagPlar0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Best comparison for this is comparing poisons to weakening enchants; do they stack? If not, then poisons are working as intended.
Yeah, I think this is where the major interest lies in this discussion at all. With the weakened 1H enchant, the question is would you be better served running double dot poison on the front bar and weapon damage/befouled weapon on the back bar. You'd give up some sustain when you lose that stam absorb enchantment, but you'd gain some damage since the poison would make up for the halved enchant.
So I imagine you could cheese your parse a little bit with them - but in a trial you'd lose out on quite a bit if everyone is running the same poison.
do different poisons stack on trial bosses? If so, the quick fix might just be to offer multiple iterations of the same poisons until a more elegant version comes around.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
ffyre✭✭✭do different poisons stack on trial bosses? If so, the quick fix might just be to offer multiple iterations of the same poisons until a more elegant version comes around.
I don't have a clue. Being on console rather sucks sometimes. hahaJo'Raashaa - Khajiit StamDK | Do'Zhi-ra'dala - Khajiit StamDen | Dada'la-daro - Khajiit MagPlar0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Best comparison for this is comparing poisons to weakening enchants; do they stack? If not, then poisons are working as intended.
Yeah, I think this is where the major interest lies in this discussion at all. With the weakened 1H enchant, the question is would you be better served running double dot poison on the front bar and weapon damage/befouled weapon on the back bar. You'd give up some sustain when you lose that stam absorb enchantment, but you'd gain some damage since the poison would make up for the halved enchant.
So I imagine you could cheese your parse a little bit with them - but in a trial you'd lose out on quite a bit if everyone is running the same poison.
do different poisons stack on trial bosses? If so, the quick fix might just be to offer multiple iterations of the same poisons until a more elegant version comes around.
Yes, different poisons do stack - only identical poisons don't. But I don't think it's useful, because only the strongest double dot poison will probably outperform current nerfed enchantments on DW.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Best comparison for this is comparing poisons to weakening enchants; do they stack? If not, then poisons are working as intended.
Yeah, I think this is where the major interest lies in this discussion at all. With the weakened 1H enchant, the question is would you be better served running double dot poison on the front bar and weapon damage/befouled weapon on the back bar. You'd give up some sustain when you lose that stam absorb enchantment, but you'd gain some damage since the poison would make up for the halved enchant.
So I imagine you could cheese your parse a little bit with them - but in a trial you'd lose out on quite a bit if everyone is running the same poison.
do different poisons stack on trial bosses? If so, the quick fix might just be to offer multiple iterations of the same poisons until a more elegant version comes around.
Yes, different poisons do stack - only identical poisons don't. But I don't think it's useful, because only the strongest double dot poison will probably outperform current nerfed enchantments on DW.
Thanks! They nerf the double dot, but buff the single dot by enough to make it match enchants. Then they can find 6 ways to offer different versions of that.
Would be better for build diversity and the assumption that no class builds the same anyway. How many trials have full group of stam DD anyway?Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Best comparison for this is comparing poisons to weakening enchants; do they stack? If not, then poisons are working as intended.
Yeah, I think this is where the major interest lies in this discussion at all. With the weakened 1H enchant, the question is would you be better served running double dot poison on the front bar and weapon damage/befouled weapon on the back bar. You'd give up some sustain when you lose that stam absorb enchantment, but you'd gain some damage since the poison would make up for the halved enchant.
So I imagine you could cheese your parse a little bit with them - but in a trial you'd lose out on quite a bit if everyone is running the same poison.
do different poisons stack on trial bosses? If so, the quick fix might just be to offer multiple iterations of the same poisons until a more elegant version comes around.
Yes, different poisons do stack - only identical poisons don't. But I don't think it's useful, because only the strongest double dot poison will probably outperform current nerfed enchantments on DW.
You can make 2 different double DOT poisons with the same strength (one has a stamina cost increase effect, one does not). I do not know if they will stack though. Past that, you'll have to give up one of the effects, and I couldn't come up with a third double DOT poison.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@kringled_1 , I don't think it's possible; adding extra effect either reduces the potency of DoT or reduces duration (and thus damage), it's how game is built. Could you bring ingredients for both poisons, one with cost increase and one without? You sure DoT durations aren't made shorter for the third effect? If they have same damage, I'd test them too, though I'm sure they would stack (I think only identical poisons don't - say, crafted double dot should stack with crown store double dot).1 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@kringled_1 , I don't think it's possible; adding extra effect either reduces the potency of DoT or reduces duration (and thus damage), it's how game is built. Could you bring ingredients for both poisons, one with cost increase and one without? You sure DoT durations aren't made shorter for the third effect? If they have same damage, I'd test them too, though I'm sure they would stack (I think only identical poisons don't - say, crafted double dot should stack with crown store double dot).
You're right as far as the duration, I was looking at the DoT strength only. You'll lose out on 1 tick of the higher strength DoT and 2 of the lower. (Fleshfly Larvae and Nightshade are common to both, I used Nirnroot or Corn Flower for the first, Emetic Russala or Stinkhorn for the second). Sorry for the oversight.0