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Random guy executes ponzi scheme across 5 PC guilds then nukes guilds and discord
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Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.
This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.
Really need more details.
Dude hops in chat and starts getting "angry" that we've been robbed by "xxx" while trying to get the other members angry, but never actually responds to anyone trying to talk to him. He goes from "I just found out a couple minutes ago" right to "ohhh its all over, everythings gone goodbye". Within a couple minutes the discord gets nuked, and all of the guilds are being taken down. Why would any leadership just nuke every guild AND discord within minutes of being robbed, especially without saying anything to anyone? Combine that with the fact the he up'd the "investment" advertising in the week leading up to this as shown in the mail by vampirenight, it's pretty obvious.
Still sounds like a collapsing guild. Though possibly one of the leaders saw this comming and took advantage of the confusion.Edited by Skwor on March 1, 2019 11:04AM0 -
FungusCat✭✭Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.
This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.
Really need more details.
Dude hops in chat and starts getting "angry" that we've been robbed by "xxx" while trying to get the other members angry, but never actually responds to anyone trying to talk to him. He goes from "I just found out a couple minutes ago" right to "ohhh its all over, everythings gone goodbye". Within a couple minutes the discord gets nuked, and all of the guilds are being taken down. Why would any leadership just nuke every guild AND discord within minutes of being robbed, especially without saying anything to anyone? Combine that with the fact the he up'd the "investment" advertising in the week leading up to this as shown in the mail by vampirenight, it's pretty obvious.
Still sounds like a collapsing guild. Though possibly one of the leaders saw this comming and took advantage of the confusion.
It could still have been, but usually there is a notable downturn in guild quality/upturn in drama before something like that happens.2 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.
This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.
Really need more details.
Dude hops in chat and starts getting "angry" that we've been robbed by "xxx" while trying to get the other members angry, but never actually responds to anyone trying to talk to him. He goes from "I just found out a couple minutes ago" right to "ohhh its all over, everythings gone goodbye". Within a couple minutes the discord gets nuked, and all of the guilds are being taken down. Why would any leadership just nuke every guild AND discord within minutes of being robbed, especially without saying anything to anyone? Combine that with the fact the he up'd the "investment" advertising in the week leading up to this as shown in the mail by vampirenight, it's pretty obvious.
Still sounds like a collapsing guild. Though possibly one of the leaders saw this comming and took advantage of the confusion.
The guild had a had a market stall in place and had many members online at at time maybe around forty to seventy or more or less. So it was not a collapsing guild. It was sabotaged on purpose and from what I am understanding several guilds that were active and possibly had traders as well got ruined by this same person or persons. So a perfectly healthy Trading guild got ruined by someone who wanted all that gold and items in bank for themselves. It really is sad because Tamriel Marketplace had a lot of good people in it. It was an interesting trade guild to be in. Hopefully this does not happen to any more guilds and the persons or persons responsible are caught.Edited by Thevampirenight on March 1, 2019 11:18AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not familiar with any of the guilds. Did any of them have traders, or were these all private trading guilds? I guess I don't pay enough attention to the guilds.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
SFDB✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »I am not familiar with any of the guilds. Did any of them have traders, or were these all private trading guilds? I guess I don't pay enough attention to the guilds.
There was a trader in Marbruk.1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How much was actually stolen, do you guys think? And are the accounts you suspect of being the thieves still active?
Unless the answers to those questions are really surprising, I don't see the point from a simple greed standpoint; there are easier ways to make money in the game. The motivation would more likely be the joy of thievery itself, a desire to hurt fellow players, or something like that.4 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »How much was actually stolen, do you guys think? And are the accounts you suspect of being the thieves still active?
Unless the answers to those questions are really surprising, I don't see the point from a simple greed standpoint; there are easier ways to make money in the game. The motivation would more likely be the joy of thievery itself, a desire to hurt fellow players, or something like that.
I am guessing millions of gold and many valuable items that could get one millions were taken from the guild. I don't know as I did not know what was in there. Or how much. I am sure other players might. The history did not go back to show what all was taken at least on my end before we all got kicked out of it. So the number of gold could be anyone's guess but from what I understand it numbered in the millions possibly.PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
SFDB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thevampirenight wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »How much was actually stolen, do you guys think? And are the accounts you suspect of being the thieves still active?
Unless the answers to those questions are really surprising, I don't see the point from a simple greed standpoint; there are easier ways to make money in the game. The motivation would more likely be the joy of thievery itself, a desire to hurt fellow players, or something like that.
I am guessing millions of gold and many valuable items that could get one millions were taken from the guild. I don't know as I did not know what was in there. Or how much. I am sure other players might. The history did not go back to show what all was taken at least on my end before we all got kicked out of it. So the number of gold could be anyone's guess but from what I understand it numbered in the millions possibly.
"Millions" was the figure we were repeatedly quoted. And yeah, there wasn't much time to check things out, since it was dissolved so quickly.
I should add that previously, I quit two trade guilds. One because the GM was convinced that because of his hard work, the guild existed for his benefit first, and when questioned booted the person and encouraged others to harass him. The other was because the GM had been kicked from a trade guild and had an unhealthy vendetta, spending ridiculous amounts of the guild's funds to take away their trader just to spite them. So compared to them, there were zero warning signs that there was a problem with this guild's leadership, everything seemed (at the time) to be to strengthen our position and ensure we'd all prosper, and it's only in retrospect that the coffers were being filled so that the GM could raid them.1 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭
Well like I said, I am an EVE player where this kind of thing is a common part of the game and is to be expected, so it is interesting to me to see it happen outside of EVE and it makes me wonder how non-EVE players view something like this.Thevampirenight wrote: »
This isn't very funny. Given this person has multiple accounts and this possibly effected hundreds of people that were involved in those guilds. To have someone run an operation like this. Is brazenan. People might have put millions to help with the traders too, and they lost out because of this. Your comments really strike me as odd here. As if someone with an ego had something to brag about but doing so in the third person. Not saying your the one, just that this post kinda seems odd and then the praise in your post, with this sounds really suspicious to me.
My personal view is that you shouldn't be leaving your stuff in the guild bank that you can't control or 'investing' large sums of gold and the not expect someone to take it. People who lost a lot of valuables can only blame themselves.
That's completely not true. They can blame the guy that stole from them. It's one thing to invest in a pyramid scheme, it's something totally different to be robbed by the CEO of a huge business.6 -
myskyrim26✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, how to avoid this? Not to invest in a new guild that recruits me? Just want to know how to be on the safe side4 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »How much was actually stolen, do you guys think? And are the accounts you suspect of being the thieves still active?
Unless the answers to those questions are really surprising, I don't see the point from a simple greed standpoint; there are easier ways to make money in the game. The motivation would more likely be the joy of thievery itself, a desire to hurt fellow players, or something like that.
I am guessing millions of gold and many valuable items that could get one millions were taken from the guild. I don't know as I did not know what was in there. Or how much. I am sure other players might. The history did not go back to show what all was taken at least on my end before we all got kicked out of it. So the number of gold could be anyone's guess but from what I understand it numbered in the millions possibly.
Wow. I didn't get that at all from the 1K weekly fee.
I know high end trade guilds on PC/NA are likely to spend >10 million/week on a trader, and consequently handle similar amounts wealth, but I tend to think the guildmasters donate more to get to that level in the first place than they could ever get by looting the place. Maybe if you take over guild leadership after somebody else does the initial hard work ...0 -
lordhakai✭✭✭myskyrim26 wrote: »So, how to avoid this? Not to invest in a new guild that recruits me? Just want to know how to be on the safe side
This is not something big guilds do. The guy that did this which I can't say his name on here because of guidelines but he has been called out by multiple trade guild gms for his questionable practices.4 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's almost as if the game has mirrored real life. Was the guild leader a Nigerian businessman?3 -
J6B✭lol WOW gg that guild...
robbed or not - just the perfect making of House Indoril & only fitting that its in disguise.
now I know not to put more than weekly dues upfront / pay dues if I CAN MAKE sales. Heck, i'm not going to pay weekly dues but to make more sales than before - only way to prevent this from happening.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭myskyrim26 wrote: »So, how to avoid this? Not to invest in a new guild that recruits me? Just want to know how to be on the safe side
Most guilds aren't going to ask for an "investment."
Typically, trade guilds do not earn enough gold from their share of sales tax to fund trader bids. To compete, they often require a weekly fee in the form of dues/raffle tickets/donations in addition to other activities like internal guild auctions.
Weekly fees seem to range between 5,000-30,000 gold and may be offset completely by strong sales. The minimum contribution is usually tied to the location of the trader. I'm not actively trading atm, but most guilds probably require 10k or less per week. Rawl guilds are probably 20-30k+. This is my POV on PC/NA.
The only time you should "invest" is when you're helping someone you already trust get a new project off the ground.Edited by zyk on March 1, 2019 12:04PM6 -
NeroBad✭✭✭✭
Well like I said, I am an EVE player where this kind of thing is a common part of the game and is to be expected, so it is interesting to me to see it happen outside of EVE and it makes me wonder how non-EVE players view something like this.Thevampirenight wrote: »
This isn't very funny. Given this person has multiple accounts and this possibly effected hundreds of people that were involved in those guilds. To have someone run an operation like this. Is brazenan. People might have put millions to help with the traders too, and they lost out because of this. Your comments really strike me as odd here. As if someone with an ego had something to brag about but doing so in the third person. Not saying your the one, just that this post kinda seems odd and then the praise in your post, with this sounds really suspicious to me.
My personal view is that you shouldn't be leaving your stuff in the guild bank that you can't control or 'investing' large sums of gold and the not expect someone to take it. People who lost a lot of valuables can only blame themselves.
That's completely not true. They can blame the guy that stole from them. It's one thing to invest in a pyramid scheme, it's something totally different to be robbed by the CEO of a huge business.
Indeed. I mean I would say one has always responsibility over their belongings, but saying if someone stole it (by force, lie, or cunning) then the thief has done nothing wrong is disgusting. Generaly these thief can only do their trick because the majority has some moral code which increase their effectiveness as a society. As soon as these thing get frequent, then everybody would be more suspicious, then for making business we would implement more safety and time consuming ways to ultimately have fair trading, and by then many people would be less likely to trade because of the high bureaucracy.
So yes be aware and look down upon on thieves, and make them pay for their crime and damage.3 -
notmeta✭✭✭this is why we need just one auction house these things shouldn't be player run because well in short some human beings just suck15 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It was more of a long con, the person led the guild and thus it was assumed he or she was acting in the guild's best interest. The GM pushed hard for sales and investors in the guild trader with the understanding that it was to help ensure the guild's future prosperity, and there was a Discord set up for it with members encouraged to participate. In other words, people were duped because the GM was doing what pretty much every other trade guild GM should be doing. Right up until they took all that money and shut down the guild.
What was particularly disgusting was that one member had invested in the guild and was good until summer. He wound up in the hospital and so asked his grandson to log in to his account for him since he couldn't and didn't want to be considered afk from his other guilds. The crooked GM tried to convince the kid his granddad should invest enough gold to cover an additional year. Fortunately one of the other members talked the kid out of it.
That disgusts me. How could anything think to even do such a thing.6 -
Ixtyr✭✭✭✭✭Sigh...
Can't say I didn't see this coming.
This particular GM managed to get himself on pretty much every other Trade GM's shitlist over the last 2-3 months or so, ever since he first cropped up. He made a habit of shamelessly joining established guilds and then attempting to directly poach players out into his "new, better guild". A lot of us GMs spend time together, we have small community Discords and such to communicate and share advice, etc., and this guy's shenanigans became pretty well known fairly quickly amongst those circles. He's been about the most universally hated GM among other GMs that I can recall since Traders were introduced in Patch 1.3.
The way he chose to operate his guilds always struck me as a bit odd, but there wasn't anything inherently wrong about some of the choices. Poaching is always going to be a slimy, uncool thing to do, and any GM with any shred of pride and decency who's in it for the long haul wouldn't do that since it's about the fastest way to get a target on your back - but aside from the poaching, it was fairly strange that he was essentially using a common Console Trade Guild model on PC, where he forced you to pay weekly dues before being promoted to a rank where you could access the Guild Store to sell things, rather than the inverse (pay at the end of the week only if you miss quotas). On Xbox or PS4, that might make sense since it's tough to keep track of everyone's activities and enforce quotas without access to add-ons, but this was the first time in five years I'd seen anyone attempt that strategy on PC.
He also had a pretty ridiculous history when it came to how he handled each guild and started this whole mess. He was originally an officer in another guild, a social guild, when he started going on this recruitment blitz, paying for a Guild Trader and trying to enforce dues. He eventually got disciplined by the GM of that guild (supposedly, though if I'm being honest it wouldn't surprise me if they both profited from this since the "disciplining" happened only within the last few days), started his second and third guilds, and then continued to keep recruiting across all of them. This went on for weeks, and he was obviously siphoning money away - guild traders in the city he was targeting are, relatively speaking, dirt cheap, so he was just raking in profits with the promise that eventually they'd improve locations. After being called out about this a few months ago, he actually went out of his way to change his @UserID to try and hide his identity because of how bad his rep had gotten after all of the poaching and slimy recruitment tactics. Talk about a red flag.
This whole mess is genuinely sad. It makes all Trade Guilds look bad, and gives us a bad rep. Anytime someone comes along, uses the system to scam people, and isn't held accountable, people are going to be justifiably upset and it leads to more players being skeptical and less willing to join and participate in the legitimate guilds many of us have poured years of our lives into building the right way. Many of us are not raking in fat profits while being satisfied keeping our guilds in second-rate locations, and we charge dues appropriate for the area, not just arbitrarily. We're in it to provide a service for other players, build our communities, help new players learn about the game, or we just genuinely enjoy the whole process and system this game offers and want to be part of it.
Scumbags like this ruin things for the rest of us.
If there were players affected by this who need new homes, let me know (tag me in a reply so I see it). I've got two guilds myself that are established, have been around for years, and aren't going anywhere soon. If I don't have space or it's not the right fit, I can definitely at least point you in the direction of another guild that's well-run by someone more trustworthy than the senseless waste of human life you were dealing with before.Edited by Ixtyr on March 1, 2019 12:41PMIxtyr Falavir - Bosmer Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant
Reya Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion
Kaylin Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Ebonheart Pact
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Alyna Falavir - Dunmer Dragonknight - Daggerfall Covenant
Aernah Falavir - Altmer Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Aranis Falavir - Bosmer Sorcerer - Daggerfall Covenant
Aerin Falavir - Bosmer Warden - Daggerfall Covenant
Rhys Falavir - Orc Sorcerer - Aldmeri Dominion
Rhiannon Falavir - Altmer Templar - Aldmeri Dominion
Nenara Falavir - Argonian Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
Neera Falavir - Orc Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
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The Ska'vyn Exchange - Guild Master
Vehemence - Officer
Nightfighters - Member
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Ømni - Guild Master (Retired)
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Moderator of /r/elderscrollsonline28 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭myskyrim26 wrote: »So, how to avoid this? Not to invest in a new guild that recruits me? Just want to know how to be on the safe side
Pick better quality guild. In fact pm if you guys are on PC NA. I have been with same trade guild for over three years now.3 -
lordhakai✭✭✭It a shame this happened to anyone and I share Ixy sentiment if anyone wronged needs another trade guild let me know2
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Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »[They were two different accounts. But it is possible they were the same person. I did find that odd and it was too quick. So I think they were either the same person or maybe worked together on this. Yeah it was really strange.
Take a moment to consider other strange things here.
Like some brand spanking new forum account posting about this being done by some "other person", finding it all terribly hilarious, blaming it on the victims etc.14 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭Honestly this story is short on detail and long on accusations/assumptions.
This could easily be a guild structure just collapsing which often looks the same but to the standard member looks nefarious, thus rumors and and accusations fly.
Really need more details.
Dude hops in chat and starts getting "angry" that we've been robbed by "xxx" while trying to get the other members angry, but never actually responds to anyone trying to talk to him. He goes from "I just found out a couple minutes ago" right to "ohhh its all over, everythings gone goodbye". Within a couple minutes the discord gets nuked, and all of the guilds are being taken down. Why would any leadership just nuke every guild AND discord within minutes of being robbed, especially without saying anything to anyone? Combine that with the fact the he up'd the "investment" advertising in the week leading up to this as shown in the mail by vampirenight, it's pretty obvious.
Sounds like "The Count of Monte Cristo" and Villefort destroying the only evidence available as a judge... mmmh...0 -
Myrkgrav✭✭✭✭What was particularly disgusting was that one member had invested in the guild and was good until summer. He wound up in the hospital and so asked his grandson to log in to his account for him since he couldn't and didn't want to be considered afk from his other guilds. The crooked GM tried to convince the kid his granddad should invest enough gold to cover an additional year. Fortunately one of the other members talked the kid out of it.
Holy crap. That's sad. People play games to avoid this crap because it happens IRL, not to have it happen there too. WTF is wrong with people.Morty | ♂ | @morti_macabre | PC NA | EST
Member of Knights of the Sanguine, Sheogorath's Mortals & Sword Coast Traders2 -
omegatay_ESO✭✭✭✭I can see how this would upset some people. But it can happen and I play smart. I never donate more then is needed for dues, period. I use these guilds to sell my stuff, nothing more. If dues are unreasonable, like 6k plus I leave. There are (hundreds?) of guilds peoples, no reason to be screwed by them.
Because trust me, they don't give a rats butt about you!Edited by omegatay_ESO on March 1, 2019 1:41PM0 -
Lasinagol✭✭✭I would like to put this out there, Why Buy Elsweyr for the Ps4 NA is one of the best and only guilds I have supported. Is this happening on a pc server?Altmer Supremist, filthy spell slinger since Nerevar was assasinated4 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭Haha, totally saw this coming. I joined one of those guilds for extra trade slots, and it seemed super sketchy how the gm was always asking for investments that would cover your dues for X months. I've heard too many stories to buy into something like that, and I was right. It's a shame, the guild seemed to have plenty of decent folks and a lot of new players who probably deposited large portions of their savings.3
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That sort of thing may be ok on EVE, it's generally not tolerated here. Report to ZOS and see what happens. It may be totally within the terms of service to do something like this, but being a giant ********* won't win any friends in a game that revolves around social interaction.6
This discussion has been closed.