Racials Wood Elf vs Orc

teladoy · March 2019

Orc:

Brawny III

Increases your Max Stamina by 2000

Unfliching Rage III

Increases your Max Health by 1000
When you deal damage with a weapon ability, you heal for 600. This can occur once every 4 seconds.

Swift Warrior III

Increases you weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of sprint by 12% and increases the movement speed bonus of sprint by 10%

Wood Elf

Hunter's Eye III

Increases you Stealth detection radius by 3 meters.
Increases your movement speed by 10% and you Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use roll dodge.

Y'free's Endurance II

Increases you stamina recovery by 258

Resist Affliction III

Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and Poison resistance by 2310
Gain immunity to the Poisoned status effect.

I'm not sure what should i pick for battlegrounds for my stamina character.
The Stealth detection works against the NB cloak? if not then i have to say this skill is almost useless for almost everything.

I have the feeling Wood elf have more situational Racials, while Orcs have more base racials that work very well in every scenario. I like for example the stamina regen of wood elfs, but i don't understand the Phypsical penetration after roll dodge, it could be simply up all the time or Orcs get 258 weapon damage after roll dodge also for 6 seconds?
Then the poison resistance i think is a little bit limitated, how many players in Bgs use poison skills? Mostly is physical or magical damage. Then Orcs heals for 600 every 4 seconds, that is not a huge heal, but is effective, because any stamina build is using some weapon skill and it will trigger it almost constantly.

Well i just wanted to let my concerns and get some advice from some of you. I would like to play a wood elf, but seems that if i will do bg maybe Orc is the best race.

Banana · March 2019

Orcs need a nerf.

Thevampirenight · March 2019

My advice play the race you want to play the passives just add flavor really, sometimes more of an advantage for certain things but people can make do without them and still be very good at things like dps and other things. Just because your a certain race does not mean you can't play a magicka redguard or stamina altmer or magicka nord and stamina dps Argonian. Play the way you want to play and not what the meta tells you to play.

Fur_like_snow · March 2019

If you decide to roll a tiny delicate feminine elf instead of a tall strong masculine Orc well it was probably for RP purposes. You know what the right choice is racials aside.

VexingArcanist · March 2019

I recently (post racial changes) made a new nightblade. At first I created an orc, but then since my intention is battlegrounds and no-cp cyrodiil I deleted and made a bosmer. I feel that Orcs are likely to see a nerf while bosmer will not and might even get a slight buff, but the main issue is no-cp and stamina recovery, that and the penetration bonus and the fact I dodge roll and block often enough in no-cp content and the fact I do not care for Orc appearance and I do like Bosmer appearance, justified my choice.

BlueRaven · March 2019

It appears that the wood elf “detect” does not pick up invisible opponents, and the distance of it is quite small.

The real benefit of the wood elf passive appears to be extra movements speed after a roll. (Which is just for a limited time, vs the orcs permanent speed boost.) Also this speed boost appears to be a duplicate the bow ability, Hasty Retreat. Except you do not need a bow for the racial obviously. And (I believe) the speed boost from the bow ability is much greater.
The extra armor pen is nice if you are under cap, but you should not be. It is also time limited and attached to the roll which is still stamina intensive.

Lastly from what I have seen, orcs seem to always dps parse better then wood elves under all circumstances. (If someone can contradict this I would be highly interested.)

EDIT: See @Ratzkifal tests below.

Arato · March 2019

Is this even serious? Situational proc vs up all the time stats? No stealth detect does not work on NB cloak, NB cloak is INVISIBILITY nothing works on it except it timing out or them running out of magicka spamming it.

Also the movement speed buff is overwritten by hasty retreat if you're using a bow for most of its duration.

Go orc

The Dev who did the Bosmer changes basically hates Bosmer and is crippling them intentionally, or he's incompetent, or a mix of the two.

HankTwo · March 2019

What are you planning to build? Class, armor type, vampire/werewolf, weapons, etc.

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

OP, it's already a month that people debate on this, dozens of threads, open letters to devs, even Alcast stated multiple times that orc is OP and basically BiS for everything in stamina department.
Only reaction from devs is info from class rep. He said that since stamina recovery scales so good, they consider this changes as a huge buff to bosmer so key things here are 2k stamina, 258 recovery and poison injection protection, roll-dodge passive is just a flavor and detection radius is expected to be used in synergy with updated sentry set which is pretty good in PVP.

Dalsinthus · March 2019

Arato wrote: »

Is this even serious? Situational proc vs up all the time stats? No stealth detect does not work on NB cloak, NB cloak is INVISIBILITY nothing works on it except it timing out or them running out of magicka spamming it.

Also the movement speed buff is overwritten by hasty retreat if you're using a bow for most of its duration.

According to Grimhollow on YouTube, on the PTS the stealth detect was pulling NBs out of cloak at very close range. He did a YouTube video on the Bosmer changes and had screenshots demonstrating this. I don't know if that made it to live as I am on Xbox and can't test it yet.

Additionally there are a ton of things that pull NBs out of cloak - detect pots are amazing for this, but mage light, evil hunter, flare, and any aoe ability all work. It's an easy ability to counter if you plan ahead.

The movement speed buff stacks with hasty retreat. Where are you getting that it overwrites?

Arato wrote: »

Go orc

The Dev who did the Bosmer changes basically hates Bosmer and is crippling them intentionally, or he's incompetent, or a mix of the two.

Now here I absolutely agree. Orc is your best choice and the changes to Bosmer were poorly done.

Ratzkifal · March 2019

Okay, I've done some testing on the detection thing. First of all It does work on cloak at a 3m radius, however all the attacks you declare on that target miss (except for AoEs and presumably undodgeable attacks).
Now something really important. Three meters sounds like much, but in this game, three meters is nothing! You have to stand on top of the cloaking nightblade to detect them and unless you got aoe attacks for that, you can't even get them out of cloak. That lead me to think that this is actually a bug and invisibility in this game works by reducing detection radius to 0 or something and gives you 100% dodge chance. The only thing this detection is useful for is when some NB tries to run away from you, go invisible and then walks through you to juke you. Then you will notice. Otherwise you won't, because the invisibility detection range is way shorter than the sneak detection range.
Oh and on that sneak detection, a sneaking enemy will know you are there before you know they are there if your detection radius is larger because their "eye" will open halfway before that of the woodelf, giving away your position before. To be fair, when a Woodelf and some other race that isn't Khajiit walk straight towards each other, the non-Woodelf will be taken out of sneak before the Woodelf will be, so there is still some advantage left, even though the Bosmer clearly loses the information game.

@Arato @BlueRaven

Cundu_Ertur · March 2019

So basically the Bosmer detection passive starts off at completely useless in concept and then manages, somehow, to be even more useless than completely useless in execution.

yay. <= this is sarcasm.

wedgebert · March 2019

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

So basically the Bosmer detection passive starts off at completely useless in concept and then manages, somehow, to be even more useless than completely useless in execution.

yay. <= this is sarcasm.

Apparently it's not useless. It's just that its use is to favor your opponent by making you waste resources on attacks that can't hit.

I guess Bosmer is the new "hard mode" of the game.

Heimpai · March 2019

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

If you decide to roll a tiny delicate feminine elf instead of a tall strong masculine Orc well it was probably for RP purposes. You know what the right choice is racials aside.

Yeah..once you realize your burst failed and have no stam

MartiniDaniels · March 2019

wedgebert wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

So basically the Bosmer detection passive starts off at completely useless in concept and then manages, somehow, to be even more useless than completely useless in execution.

yay. <= this is sarcasm.

Apparently it's not useless. It's just that its use is to favor your opponent by making you waste resources on attacks that can't hit.

I guess Bosmer is the new "hard mode" of the game.

Yep, there are ton of overlooked things behind the dummy like those off balance times and free invisibility while finishing with heavy attack, kiting with speed and so on, resource economy on dodge, i.e. it's cheaper to dodge some attacks then block them etc.. so mastering that things is something which will give an edge on bosmer.
Other thing is that dodge roll sets are all underpowered. I mean if you look at senche's it's basically hundings which has +128 recovery and 150 more damage after roll dodge and... 288 WD and 1000 crit less if you don't dodge. So looking at my senche uptimes i can't shrug off thought that plain hundings will be more effective even if you are constantly dodging.
Same for nocturnal's vs cyrodiil's crest etc..

Tasear · March 2019

Arato wrote: »

Is this even serious? Situational proc vs up all the time stats? No stealth detect does not work on NB cloak, NB cloak is INVISIBILITY nothing works on it except it timing out or them running out of magicka spamming it.

Also the movement speed buff is overwritten by hasty retreat if you're using a bow for most of its duration.

Go orc

The Dev who did the Bosmer changes basically hates Bosmer and is crippling them intentionally, or he's incompetent, or a mix of the two.

So the reason bosmers went from 20 to 10 was null? Hasty retreat wasn't issue at all?