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Unsporting behaviour after group kick -- Boss interaction
mairwen85
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Last night, bone menagerie, fang lair. There's a lengthy story attached to this, but I won't go into too much detail, as it detracts from the point of discussion 
This boss fight is one I used to dread, it's the pug killer for this particular dungeon and if you're going to wipe, you're going to wipe here, hard! But, over time I've come to enjoy it -- it's a fight that, once you know the mechanics, can be done easily as long as everyone in the group plays to the mechanics and works together. After several wipes due to one group member doing something other than the expected mechanics, and despite instructions being posted (and I'm talking full paragraphs in bright orange) , we decided to kick. As soon as he was removed from the group he runs in and pulls the boss before being teleported out of the dungeon -- knew this was coming too, he said to kick him if we didn't like how he was playing (a bluff clearly, considering his behaviour afterwards).
How is this still a thing? Surely, if a player is no longer in the group they should have all ability to interact with the instance removed -- especially the ability to pull. I've seen this in other dungeons where the boss resets if the rest of the group are out of range when the pulling player is teleported out, but this isn't always an option in every dungeon, especially those where doors close you in.
Edit:
To clarify, this is not a complaint against a player or a moan about a bad experience; this situation above is just one example of a scenario where this has happened, provided for context. The actual point for discussion is that this is behaviour that shouldn't really be possible because it does further increase negativity/toxicity/frustrations.
Edited by mairwen85 on February 27, 2019 8:42AM This boss fight is one I used to dread, it's the pug killer for this particular dungeon and if you're going to wipe, you're going to wipe here, hard! But, over time I've come to enjoy it -- it's a fight that, once you know the mechanics, can be done easily as long as everyone in the group plays to the mechanics and works together. After several wipes due to one group member doing something other than the expected mechanics, and despite instructions being posted (and I'm talking full paragraphs in bright orange) , we decided to kick. As soon as he was removed from the group he runs in and pulls the boss before being teleported out of the dungeon -- knew this was coming too, he said to kick him if we didn't like how he was playing (a bluff clearly, considering his behaviour afterwards).
How is this still a thing? Surely, if a player is no longer in the group they should have all ability to interact with the instance removed -- especially the ability to pull. I've seen this in other dungeons where the boss resets if the rest of the group are out of range when the pulling player is teleported out, but this isn't always an option in every dungeon, especially those where doors close you in.
Edit:
To clarify, this is not a complaint against a player or a moan about a bad experience; this situation above is just one example of a scenario where this has happened, provided for context. The actual point for discussion is that this is behaviour that shouldn't really be possible because it does further increase negativity/toxicity/frustrations.
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Valldez✭✭✭it's just cost me a minute to wipe again, and a soulgem.. i'd rather tolerate it.. besides, the guy that's been kicked must be frustated too..4 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭it's just cost me a minute to wipe again, and a soulgem.. i'd rather tolerate it.. besides, the guy that's been kicked must be frustated too..
True. I get that. It's a negative knock on -- people get kicked out of frustration, people pull the boss out of frustration. It's a domino effect; I understand that. Doesn't mean it isn't a pretty sh--rhymes-with-pretty thing to do.
Personally, I wouldn't do this; I wouldn't see the point. even if the group was a team of jerks. Not because I'm better than that or above such behaviour, but because I fail to see what, if anything, it achieves other than making me look like a petulant child. If kicked, I'd rather leave with my dignity intact.
Thing is, we actually 3 manned it on his pull (a long fight with taking turns at dying
), so whatever he hoped to achieve was negated by the fact that he clearly was the problem to begin with -- if anything, his tantrum pull proved it was the right thing to do to kick him.
It could have gone the other way, of course, which could have lead to escalating frustration for the remaining group. Or, as you put it, we could have just accepted it, wiped and carried on... who knows. Either way, it doesn't achieve anything other than making the person doing it look worse off.
Edited by mairwen85 on February 27, 2019 7:39AM2 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You kicked him, he was p*ssed and got you killed (obviously not for the first time). I would not conisder that exactly "unsporting". What do you expect him to do? Accept your judgement and take the punishment like a man?
And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon3 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You kicked him, he was p*ssed and got you killed (obviously not for the first time). I would not conisder that exactly "unsporting". What do you expect him to do? Accept your judgement and take the punishment like a man? Yes, actually, something like that. Maybe not in the way you phrase it. I would consider the reaction unsporting, because that's what it is. If I'm playing football, and get benched for my performance, I don't take the field and start scoring own goals to spite the rest of the team.
For clarity (despite this being written in the opening post), mechanics were explained -- guy did the opposite -- we wiped; mechanics were explained again, guy did something else, we wiped. When asked why he wasn't working with the group, he said to kick him if we didn't like it. Guy got kicked -- then decided to spite the rest of us by pulling the boss. I would not consider that exactly "sporting".
Edit:
The situation in my opening post is just one example of a scenario where this happened, provided for context. The actual point for discussion is that this is behaviour that shouldn't really be possible because it does further increase negativity/toxicity/frustrations.Edited by mairwen85 on February 27, 2019 8:40AM1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
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It's all about mechanics and communication.
The dogs explode. Usually the tank handles them -- if the dps kites them into the rest of the group, the group can get killed. You can also pull them into the group to die by cleave -- but if the agreement is that the tank will sort them out, this can kill your team.
The tiger cant be taunted, has to be interrupted if it grabs a player -- should be burnt down first. If no one interrupts, it insta-kills. If dps doesn't focus it, it takes longer to put down.
The gaur spits poison and has less health than the tiger, you burn it next, focus it to ensure you have enough time on the main boss before the tiger, dogs and guar reset. If you don't, you have more time dealing with everything else
Poison plants spawn and throw up an aoe that does a fair amount of damage, if people don't watch their footing, overlapping aoes can kill your team. Focusing one boss and moving in a circular motion as a group, or having set positions avoids this.
Just a few ways one player can wreck the team.Edited by mairwen85 on February 27, 2019 8:12AM1 -
YamiKuruku✭✭✭✭lol yeah that happened to me too some times, it rather childish than "heroic" (or whatever he was thinking in that moment) ,imo-{ PC EU }-x Khazadaar > lvl50 EP | Khajiit magblade | Main&Master Crafter | Bloodletter
CP 810+
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xCassius Pavo > lvl50 EP | Imperial Necrotank | Bringer of Light
x Haj Xal >lvl50 EP | Argonian Healblade | Immortal Redeemerx Caessia>lvl 50EP | Imperial Warden Tank | Bringer of Light
x Andre Valere >lvl 50 AD | Breton SorcTank | Gryphon Heart
x S'zhan'ir >lvl 50 EP | Khajiit StamDen| Alpha Predator
x Ri'zaad Sajhan >lvl 50 EP | Khajiit DKTank | extinguisher of flames
x Mi'ra-Do>lvl 50EP | Khajiit magPlar | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
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x Zasha gra-Lashk > lvl50 EP | Orc Stamcro
xCassius Pavo > lvl50 EP | Imperial Necrotank | Bringer of Light< We are Undaunted >1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Last night, bone menagerie, fang lair. There's a lengthy story attached to this, but I won't go into too much detail, as it detracts from the point of discussion
This boss fight is one I used to dread, it's the pug killer for this particular dungeon and if you're going to wipe, you're going to wipe here, hard! But, over time I've come to enjoy it -- it's a fight that, once you know the mechanics, can be done easily as long as everyone in the group plays to the mechanics and works together. After several wipes due to one group member doing something other than the expected mechanics, and despite instructions being posted (and I'm talking full paragraphs in bright orange) , we decided to kick. As soon as he was removed from the group he runs in and pulls the boss before being teleported out of the dungeon -- knew this was coming too, he said to kick him if we didn't like how he was playing (a bluff clearly, considering his behaviour afterwards).
How is this still a thing? Surely, if a player is no longer in the group they should have all ability to interact with the instance removed -- especially the ability to pull. I've seen this in other dungeons where the boss resets if the rest of the group are out of range when the pulling player is teleported out, but this isn't always an option in every dungeon, especially those where doors close you in.
Edit:
To clarify, this is not a complaint against a player or a moan about a bad experience; this situation above is just one example of a scenario where this has happened, provided for context. The actual point for discussion is that this is behaviour that shouldn't really be possible because it does further increase negativity/toxicity/frustrations.
It would help if you explained what the player was actually doing wrong.0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭That will always be a thing. The day it's not, the Lord almighty and all his angels have reclaimed earth and made it Eden again. Until then, this is how it's gonna be. Im not religious btw.1 -
DLM✭✭✭✭✭
One weak link can easily screw 3 competent players.
(typo)Edited by DLM on February 27, 2019 11:50AM1 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »That will always be a thing. The day it's not, the Lord almighty and all his angels have reclaimed earth and made it Eden again. Until then, this is how it's gonna be. Im not religious btw.
Whaaaaat?? xD
I find this odd post more interesting then the topic. So an awesome for whatever you meant.0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Don't PUG if you expect someone to follow your instructions. You ain't dictator here. They should remove vote kick option from dungeons, just like there isnt any in BG. I'm usually PVP player, but when I go PVE I always meet bunch of insecured medicore players who think that they are actually good.2
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Commancho that's a nice attitude, but in most group content, playing as a group is important. It's not a dictatorship when the method of play incorporates all roles working together and communicating, and where failure to do so results in failure to succeed. But you do you.
I do enjoy a pug, you learn to be more adaptive and dynamic from a pug.
I've seen premades fall to pieces on some bosses... Honestly, I've seen friendships made and broken Edited by mairwen85 on February 27, 2019 12:33PM0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Yesterday I got kicked because two nerds were reading dialogues during a dungeon and I solo'ed a first boss without waiting for them. It was hilarious, seriously they need to do something with this xD0
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yesterday I got kicked because two nerds were reading dialogues during a dungeon and I solo'ed a first boss without waiting for them. It was hilarious, seriously they need to do something with this xD They kicked you after you were finished with the boss. That's funny.nerds
What made them nerds?
I love that word, because it used to be derogatory -- but then we took over the world, and it's meaningless now 2 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Commancho that's a nice attitude, but in most group content, playing as a group is important. It's not a dictatorship when the method of play incorporates all roles working together and communicating, and where failure to do so results in failure to succeed. But you do you.
I do enjoy a pug, you learn to be more adaptive and dynamic from a pug.
I've seen premades fall to pieces on some bosses... Honestly, I've seen friendships made and broken
Me thinks you need to git gudder friends...1 -
NocturnalSonata✭✭✭Yesterday I got kicked because two nerds were reading dialogues during a dungeon and I solo'ed a first boss without waiting for them. It was hilarious, seriously they need to do something with this xD
So they wanted to do the quest?... seems reasonable. Meaning, you deserved the kick for steaming ahead.4 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭NocturnalSonata wrote: »Yesterday I got kicked because two nerds were reading dialogues during a dungeon and I solo'ed a first boss without waiting for them. It was hilarious, seriously they need to do something with this xD
So they wanted to do the quest?... seems reasonable. Meaning, you deserved the kick for steaming ahead.
A perfect example why I consider PVE only players as unsecured egoists. If you want to spend 10 minutes on reading boring and generic dialogues then queue with your friends and respect other's people limited time. I have managed to go ahead and to do first boss by myself before they have even approached. I'm sure that it hurted they ego like ALOT xD1 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭Don't PUG if you expect someone to follow your instructions. You ain't dictator here. They should remove vote kick option from dungeons, just like there isnt any in BG. I'm usually PVP player, but when I go PVE I always meet bunch of insecured medicore players who think that they are actually good.
I couldn’t agree more with your assessment. I pug frequently, and while you will meet some great folks, you will meet some kids whose parents told them how special they are.
Case in point, last night we are half way through vDS2 when someone starts spamming “vote to kick”. I keep declining, but accidentally accept while I’m in my menu. Then comes the post in chat... “thanks for kicking, he was a PvPer he wasn’t good enough to play with us”. I couldn’t tell, I thought the run was going really well, but I’m a nearly full time PvPer. In retrospect, I wish had put on my PvP guild tabard, dropped a couple bags and left them to find another tank. Instead, I just ran around not taunting or CCing for the rest of the run while the special kids spammed “jfc” in chat. Unfortunately, they probably didn’t learn anything, but we finished the dungeon and I thought it was hilarious...
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NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This kind of stuff is why I wait by the boss arena entrance. I just run away until the boss reaches tether and resets to save the gem and repairs. Stamina is free and regenerates. It's cheap, but I find I get less frustrated overall.Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I had someone like that in Fang Lair as well but it was against the last boss. He dropped grouped, ran in to pull the boss to try and get him to kill everyone. They killed him but the boss glitched and reset without attacking anyone else.
Karma's a Beach sometimes Edited by Silver_Strider on February 27, 2019 6:14PMArgonian forever2 -
Xerikten✭✭✭✭NocturnalSonata wrote: »Yesterday I got kicked because two nerds were reading dialogues during a dungeon and I solo'ed a first boss without waiting for them. It was hilarious, seriously they need to do something with this xD
So they wanted to do the quest?... seems reasonable. Meaning, you deserved the kick for steaming ahead.
A perfect example why I consider PVE only players as unsecured egoists. If you want to spend 10 minutes on reading boring and generic dialogues then queue with your friends and respect other's people limited time. I have managed to go ahead and to do first boss by myself before they have even approached. I'm sure that it hurted they ego like ALOT xD
lmao. I feel the same way but with you pvpers.0