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Counter siege changes made my team better
axxlesoft_ESO
✭✭✭
The name of my guild is King of Battle. That is a reference to field artillery. In this game, that is siege. I am biased, I like the changes to counter siege. Warheads on foreheads. That said, our guild-run in Cyrodiil tonight was far more difficult than usual. We stayed on the offensive taking keeps and died more often. As a result, we had to change tactics.
A lot of people complain about pvdoor. Zos has found the solution. My guild changed tactics and took down more walls than doors tonight. We adapted to the change, used more siege, used more stealth, and played better as a team than we ever have. And I absolutely love it.
A lot of people complain about pvdoor. Zos has found the solution. My guild changed tactics and took down more walls than doors tonight. We adapted to the change, used more siege, used more stealth, and played better as a team than we ever have. And I absolutely love it.
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Noctus✭✭✭✭✭glad u see it that way i also agree as a pvp veteran. now people have to think how they approach a castle. they cant just dance in the oil like its cold refreshing water. the more dangerous damage sources get the more we have to rely on mechanical skill, situational awareness and our intelligence and tactics.Edited by Noctus on February 27, 2019 6:23AM15
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m torn. I do think it needs to be stronger especially in CP. Currently it’s pretty easy to just ignore it in medium armor. As is it’s a bit too strong. We just don’t want to create a situation where between time stop and a couple siege it becomes impossible to take keeps without a ton of people. That said I’m all for counters to PvDoor.Edited by Vapirko on February 27, 2019 6:27AM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Increase time between ticks x2 (to give more time to react, no reaction =death) , fix the ignoring of defensive mechanics like shields, mist form, major protection etc. Fix the ability to roll dodge the ticks (yes, you can do this) and we are good to go.
As OP said, sieges in current state are sifting good players from the ones carried by sets/healers. Yes, it may look very bad at the beginning but after 3 deaths from sieges at the very beginning, I didn't died to any for the rest of the evening (~3 hours), so it is possible to counter it.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.7 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Increase time between ticks x2 (to give more time to react, no reaction =death) , fix the ignoring of defensive mechanics like shields, mist form, major protection etc. Fix the ability to roll dodge the ticks (yes, you can do this) and we are good to go.
As OP said, sieges in current state are sifting good players from the ones carried by sets/healers. Yes, it may look very bad at the beginning but after 3 deaths from sieges at the very beginning, I didn't died to any for the rest of the evening (~3 hours), so it is possible to counter it.
Yes, with some tweaks I think this could work. But ZOS has kind of let on that siege probably won’t come back as weak as it was.0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just means that people will take advantage of the places that you can't counter siege back from to siege keeps0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Just means that people will take advantage of the places that you can't counter siege back from to siege keeps
Maybe when it goes to outer walls, but inner usually can't be sieged efficiently from such places. Also when it goes to outer walls it usually means using lower number of sieges.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People will just cap the map in off hours again until this is fixed. It’s not an improvement to gameplay, although bad players are all trying to spin it that way.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.7 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People will just cap the map in off hours again until this is fixed. It’s not an improvement to gameplay, although bad players are all trying to spin it that way.
Nah just the ones that are sic and tired of troll ball groups running in circles around keeps, causing massive lags, stuck in combat bugs and in general harvesting some newbies while trying to act as it is top tier PvP.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.8 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People will just cap the map in off hours again until this is fixed. It’s not an improvement to gameplay, although bad players are all trying to spin it that way.
Nah just the ones that are sic and tired of troll ball groups running in circles around keeps, causing massive lags, stuck in combat bugs and in general harvesting some newbies while trying to act as it is top tier PvP.
You never played in one, do you?
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People will just cap the map in off hours again until this is fixed. It’s not an improvement to gameplay, although bad players are all trying to spin it that way.
Nah just the ones that are sic and tired of troll ball groups running in circles around keeps, causing massive lags, stuck in combat bugs and in general harvesting some newbies while trying to act as it is top tier PvP.
You never played in one, do you?
I did with Shido, but in times when running in ball groups was not about farming newbies but about some challenge.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
DivineFirstYOLO✭✭✭✭axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »The name of my guild is King of Battle. That is a reference to field artillery. In this game, that is siege. I am biased, I like the changes to counter siege. Warheads on foreheads. That said, our guild-run in Cyrodiil tonight was far more difficult than usual. We stayed on the offensive taking keeps and died more often. As a result, we had to change tactics.
A lot of people complain about pvdoor. Zos has found the solution. My guild changed tactics and took down more walls than doors tonight. We adapted to the change, used more siege, used more stealth, and played better as a team than we ever have. And I absolutely love it.
He is trolling, can't you see it?
That whole 2nd paragraph, it's so obvious..."solution to pvdoor" - sieging walls instead" xD
"more siege, more stealth and played better as a team than ever before"
Funny post tho, 9/10!Zerg Squad
Godslayer x 4
Pro questing fees for RPers in Cyrodiil, pay your taxes!
PC - EU2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nah just the ones that are sic and tired of troll ball groups running in circles around keeps, causing massive lags, stuck in combat bugs and in general harvesting some newbies while trying to act as it is top tier PvP.
Yes, I agree, people playing as teams... outrageous. What's this game coming to?
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axxlesoft_ESO✭✭✭
If I am trolling anyone, then I am trolling the trolls. Some people are not happy unless they are complaining. If trolls are not crying about the problem, then they are crying about the solution. It is a no win situation for designers. But you are only partially right.DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »
A lot of people complain about pvdoor. Zos has found the solution. My guild changed tactics and took down more walls than doors tonight. We adapted to the change, used more siege, used more stealth, and played better as a team than we ever have. And I absolutely love it.
He is trolling, can't you see it?
That whole 2nd paragraph, it's so obvious..."solution to pvdoor" - sieging walls instead" xD
"more siege, more stealth and played better as a team than ever before"
Funny post tho, 9/10!
I am not trolling my guild in this sentence. Although without the proper context, I can see why you might think that.axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »We adapted to the change, used more siege, used more stealth, and played better as a team than we ever have.
King of Battle is currently focused in Kyne; recruiting and training new players and leaders with the intention of moving to Vivec. The transition has already begun. I am very proud of the way that those new players and leaders embraced the suck. When presented with a challenge, we did not run the other way. Instead, we came together as a team and took the map. It is just more proof on a mounting pile of evidence that those players and leaders are ready for the challenge of Vivec. Outstanding work KoB.
Dragon Slayer, out
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axxlesoft_ESO✭✭✭
Situational awareness has become more important due to the changes in counter siege. I teach my guildies to take responsibility for their bad decisions and learn from them. But it is hard to make that argument when even bad decisions lead to success. The changes in counter siege will help to expose bad decisions when taking objectives. Before the update, rushing the door was the standard. After the update, leaders are more cautious. They are more concerned about the potential resistance at a keep. Before the changes, the only time we would bother to breach a wall, is when we faced an extreme amount of resistance. Now, breaching a wall may become more common again. I still remember the best places to breach walls on each of the keeps. That knowledge had become irrelevant because of the focus on breaching doors. I think the changes to counter siege will expand the tactics we see in Cyrodiil. And I think it will improve the overall experience.glad u see it that way i also agree as a pvp veteran. now people have to think how they approach a castle. they cant just dance in the oil like its cold refreshing water. the more dangerous damage sources get the more we have to rely on mechanical skill, situational awareness and our intelligence and tactics.
Although I like the challenge that the change to counter siege presents as it is, tweaking those changes may be necessary. Siege shields don't seem to have any effect against oils and fire balistas. Perhaps tweaking siege shields to provide a little more mitigation versus counter siege would be a good compromise. And I think you are misinterpreting the OP. I think that the changes are sifting good teams from bad teams, not "...good players from the ones carried by sets/healers." I think that the consequences of bad team tactics and bad decisions will become more apparent. I think leaders will have to make better decisions and teammates will have to play their roles better to accomplish the mission.Increase time between ticks x2 (to give more time to react, no reaction =death) , fix the ignoring of defensive mechanics like shields, mist form, major protection etc. Fix the ability to roll dodge the ticks (yes, you can do this) and we are good to go.
As OP said, sieges in current state are sifting good players from the ones carried by sets/healers. Yes, it may look very bad at the beginning but after 3 deaths from sieges at the very beginning, I didn't died to any for the rest of the evening (~3 hours), so it is possible to counter it.
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TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.2 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m torn. I do think it needs to be stronger especially in CP. Currently it’s pretty easy to just ignore it in medium armor. As is it’s a bit too strong. We just don’t want to create a situation where between time stop and a couple siege it becomes impossible to take keeps without a ton of people. That said I’m all for counters to PvDoor.
The thing is, people aren't trying to find counters to it. People are trying to make a moral imposition in which they force others to play their particular play style because it's the only place acceptable in their mind that they think is skilled. Therefore when everybody else doesn't play it their way they cry, whine, and complain.
It's no different than when people complain about snipe, but yet they'll run that same line keep the keep wondering why they're getting sniped.
I support zerging to, I also support when they get blown up because they were dumb enough to fall into a trap.
I support people being incredibly skilled 1 versus x, with that said I also support x versus one.
My favorite tactic to use when I don't like a guild, find out who the most egotistical cry hard is and kill them in every way they hate relentlessly. To the point the guild kicks that person or they disband oh, I don't care either way.
People aren't looking at this as a physics and tactics based scenario, they're looking at this as a moral issue and it's not.
Dead is dead.6 -
axxlesoft_ESO✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.
Shoot, move, and communicate. BOOM BOOM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.
Shoot, move, and communicate. BOOM BOOM
Maybe if siege engines on this game were easier to move around. But they aren't. They're extremely slow and cumbersome so it's just not realistic to say people can shoot, move, and communicate. What's going to happen instead if they are going to shoot and your siege engines are going to die.
This change basically wipes out low-man PvP when it comes to taking castles and keeps. People aren't going to keep wasting their time and points trying to take a castle when all it takes is a single stray to wander in the city and wreck havoc on your engines. It didn't take me long to start telling castles to kiss my ___ today. It's just not worth it. And God help anyone who gets CCed or stunned while a ballista is trained on them.
Edited by Jeremy on February 28, 2019 5:05PM0 -
axxlesoft_ESO✭✭✭Here is a highlight from the twitch stream from the night mentioned in the original post. I am new to streaming but you should get the idea. Thank you to super pug for leading the team. King of Battle!1
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Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ah, I miss field artillery. I used to medic for you boys in 2ID.
I prefer close quarters combat over the horse simulator (and now siege simulator) that is Cyrodiil. I'll stay in IC and Battlegrounds until this is sorted.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.
Shoot, move, and communicate. BOOM BOOM
Maybe if siege engines on this game were easier to move around. But they aren't. They're extremely slow and cumbersome so it's just not realistic to say people can shoot, move, and communicate. What's going to happen instead if they are going to shoot and your siege engines are going to die.
This change basically wipes out low-man PvP when it comes to taking castles and keeps. People aren't going to keep wasting their time and points trying to take a castle when all it takes is a single stray to wander in the city and wreck havoc on your engines. It didn't take me long to start telling castles to kiss my ___ today. It's just not worth it. And God help anyone who gets CCed or stunned while a ballista is trained on them.
It's a military cadence. You're looking into it to hard.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.
Shoot, move, and communicate. BOOM BOOM
Maybe if siege engines on this game were easier to move around. But they aren't. They're extremely slow and cumbersome so it's just not realistic to say people can shoot, move, and communicate. What's going to happen instead if they are going to shoot and your siege engines are going to die.
This change basically wipes out low-man PvP when it comes to taking castles and keeps. People aren't going to keep wasting their time and points trying to take a castle when all it takes is a single stray to wander in the city and wreck havoc on your engines. It didn't take me long to start telling castles to kiss my ___ today. It's just not worth it. And God help anyone who gets CCed or stunned while a ballista is trained on them.
It's a military cadence. You're looking into it to hard.
Maybe. But it's cadence that does resemble PvP currently on this game
More accurately It's shoot, die, and ride your horse back. BOOM BOOM1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.
Shoot, move, and communicate. BOOM BOOM
Maybe if siege engines on this game were easier to move around. But they aren't. They're extremely slow and cumbersome so it's just not realistic to say people can shoot, move, and communicate. What's going to happen instead if they are going to shoot and your siege engines are going to die.
This change basically wipes out low-man PvP when it comes to taking castles and keeps. People aren't going to keep wasting their time and points trying to take a castle when all it takes is a single stray to wander in the city and wreck havoc on your engines. It didn't take me long to start telling castles to kiss my ___ today. It's just not worth it. And God help anyone who gets CCed or stunned while a ballista is trained on them.
It's a military cadence. You're looking into it to hard.
Maybe. But it's cadence that does resemble PvP currently on this game
More accurately It's shoot, die, and ride your horse back. BOOM BOOM
Those folks are terrible at artillery then2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.
Shoot, move, and communicate. BOOM BOOM
Maybe if siege engines on this game were easier to move around. But they aren't. They're extremely slow and cumbersome so it's just not realistic to say people can shoot, move, and communicate. What's going to happen instead if they are going to shoot and your siege engines are going to die.
This change basically wipes out low-man PvP when it comes to taking castles and keeps. People aren't going to keep wasting their time and points trying to take a castle when all it takes is a single stray to wander in the city and wreck havoc on your engines. It didn't take me long to start telling castles to kiss my ___ today. It's just not worth it. And God help anyone who gets CCed or stunned while a ballista is trained on them.
It's a military cadence. You're looking into it to hard.
Maybe. But it's cadence that does resemble PvP currently on this game
More accurately It's shoot, die, and ride your horse back. BOOM BOOM
Those folks are terrible at artillery then
There's just no way you can lob a rock or arrow at a gate or wall, then move your siege engine fast enough to avoid returning fire on this game. It's not going to happen. Not unless the person operating the ballista on the defense is so slow they are in a borderline coma.Edited by Jeremy on February 28, 2019 6:18PM1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭axxlesoft_ESO wrote: »The name of my guild is King of Battle. That is a reference to field artillery. In this game, that is siege. I am biased, I like the changes to counter siege. Warheads on foreheads. That said, our guild-run in Cyrodiil tonight was far more difficult than usual. We stayed on the offensive taking keeps and died more often. As a result, we had to change tactics.
A lot of people complain about pvdoor. Zos has found the solution. My guild changed tactics and took down more walls than doors tonight. We adapted to the change, used more siege, used more stealth, and played better as a team than we ever have. And I absolutely love it.
It’s hard out there for a Zergling lol.
You would be better off hopping off siege and learning to fight. I strolled up behind some “artillery” tried to kill one, killed the two who tried to help the one, then chased the one all the way back to the Keep. 5 or 6 then chased me and before I knew it I was 21 and 0.
Julianos Sun hits HARD on a Dunmer MagDk I suppose. Loving the patch
.
Edited by JumpmanLane on February 28, 2019 8:50PM2 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »I’m torn. I do think it needs to be stronger especially in CP. Currently it’s pretty easy to just ignore it in medium armor. As is it’s a bit too strong. We just don’t want to create a situation where between time stop and a couple siege it becomes impossible to take keeps without a ton of people. That said I’m all for counters to PvDoor.
The thing is, people aren't trying to find counters to it. People are trying to make a moral imposition in which they force others to play their particular play style because it's the only place acceptable in their mind that they think is skilled. Therefore when everybody else doesn't play it their way they cry, whine, and complain.
It's no different than when people complain about snipe, but yet they'll run that same line keep the keep wondering why they're getting sniped.
I support zerging to, I also support when they get blown up because they were dumb enough to fall into a trap.
I support people being incredibly skilled 1 versus x, with that said I also support x versus one.
My favorite tactic to use when I don't like a guild, find out who the most egotistical cry hard is and kill them in every way they hate relentlessly. To the point the guild kicks that person or they disband oh, I don't care either way.
People aren't looking at this as a physics and tactics based scenario, they're looking at this as a moral issue and it's not.
Dead is dead.
"My favorite tactic to use when I don't like a guild, find out who the most egotistical cry hard is and kill them in every way they hate relentlessly. To the point the guild kicks that person or they disband oh, I don't care either way."
I've used this tactic in so many *** games to obliterate guilds that were pissing me off or getting in the way of what I wanted. It's so hilarious how hard try hards will cry and ruin their own environments all for the sake of their egotistical feelings, it's so easy to identify and manipulate, if you're savvy to it.
Old school *** we used to do in Lineage2, camping the cry baby into a town so that their guild has to break them out, sooner or later the guild begins to wonder whether or not it's worth it. By then it's to late, the damage is already done, that player who is a try hard has friends that put him / her before the guild and it results in the guild taking to much human capital damage at once when they decide enough is enough.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That’s why you never meet at an objective. PvP 101.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
axxlesoft_ESO✭✭✭"My favorite tactic to use when I don't like a guild, find out who the most egotistical cry hard is and kill them in every way they hate relentlessly. To the point the guild kicks that person or they disband oh, I don't care either way."
I've used this tactic in so many *** games to obliterate guilds that were pissing me off or getting in the way of what I wanted. It's so hilarious how hard try hards will cry and ruin their own environments all for the sake of their egotistical feelings, it's so easy to identify and manipulate, if you're savvy to it.
That is funny because on occasion some individuals have accused me of being egotistical. I think that is a reflection of the individual making the claim and I think that it is a mistake. I am confident. I have the competence, comprehension, and character to lead a team. But more importantly, I understand an essential fact about the evolution of nature, nurture, culture, and human minds. A neuron is not conscious, but human brains can be. A team can accomplish more than an individual.
Teamwork is our most powerful weapon; both on real battlefields as well as virtual battlefields. Artillery is the King of Battle. Because even grunts need heroes Every part matters, even individual pawns. But it is the team that wins wars, not the individual.
Teamwork makes Freedom work.
Dragon Slayer, out
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »All I can hear in my head right now is, "WHATS THE SOUND OF ARTILLERY. BOOM BOOM. RAINING DOWN ON THE ENEMY." and the rest of that cadence.
No, you don't hear *** because you're playing on console and don't have to deal with it. Forum Artillerist.1