Uryel wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

- I am a fan of the racial passive changes, they bring fun changes and most importantly bring much needed balance

And I am not. Where you see balance, I see watering down the flavour of each race, reducing the spots they would shine to make them all alot more "Meh, that will do, I guess".

Also, that "needed balance" might have been needed in PvP, I wouldn't know, but I really don't see it bring anything to the table in PvE. The worst of the worst being the Bosmers now ripped forcefully of their stealth bonus. People had accounted for it when creating their characters, and now 5 years worth of character tuning, 3 decades of lore and 5 previous games in the series are down the drain because of that supposed need for "balance".

Because whiners gonna whine and gankers gonna gank, snipers are apparently a problem and the only way they could be dealt with was by taking stealth away from a race... Expect gankers to be come Khajiits, whiners to start whining in a week or two when the gankers will have found new ways to one-shot everyone, and then we'll see what new nerf will damage us PvE players because of sore losers in a war that doesn't even concern us at all.

CleymenZero wrote: »

- The level of satisfaction with the amount of tokens granted is a direct function of the number of characters you have. The more characters, the less likely you are to be happy with the 3 race-change tokens granted

No. The level of satisfaction, or lack thereof, is directly proportional to how much you favorite character / gameplay is being impacted or removed from the game through this changes, ad how much you wanted to change race.

If you're a PvP player craving for "balance", then you're probably good. If you're high end content PvE raider, then I have no idea how you feel, but chances are good you won't be TOO mad. Generally speaking those guys don't have a zillion super optimised characters, so a small number of race change tokens should be enough.

Now, if you're a rather casual player, not doing PvP or high end content, but enjoying questing and overland stuff... What good does it do that your Altmer now regenerates it lower ressource pool ? How is your magicka based Dragon Knight Dunmer any better that you created especially because there would be a fire damage bonus any better ? How is your sneak thief Bosmer any more playable with his "amazing" ability to detect stealthy enemies that don't even exist in the game at all ?

Most of those changes were made for PvP, and have a meaningful impact on non-PvP user, and most of them not in a good way. The worst of all being the Bosmers losing stealth, of course.

Race change is only fun if you WANT to change race. Not if you must to remain competitive (but chances are good that people who care mostly about being competitive don't care much what their character look like), and certainly not if you have to chose between keeping your gameplay or keeping your character identity.

For all I care, ZOS could have given me 3 times the numbers of characters on my account in tokens and a bonus 10 000 crowns, I'd still be crossed. Removing stealth from the Bosmers is against the lore, against everything Bosmer players have been working on for the past 5 years, and replacing it with the most useless passive ever, stealth detection, that has no use in PvE since there are no stealthed enemies, is ludicrous.

But hey, at least you're right, they didn't have to give those tokens. They could have simply weathered the full anger of their customers and adapted to the loss of income from all the PvP crowd that would have ragequitted.

• Discounted Race Changes for ESO+ (Not just 10 or 20% either).
• ESO+ having Any Race/Any Alliance as part of their benefits (maybe even Imperial, but people can hash that out)
• X amount of tokens allowed monthly for ESO+ (within reason) that are used or lost based on a certain amount of time (within reason)
• Possibly using gold to purchase the Race Change/Name Change tokens (non-ESO+)
• Allow the tokens to be sold in the guild stores.

• The description to reflect the contents of it's Support Page (so that people understand what they're getting)
• Add a timer to a character who's been race changed in case there are further changes after sweeping racial changes such as these. No less than a week or two.

CleymenZero wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

I had to force myself to read it all. And after I waded through I came to the realization - Lots of people have No Idea How Good They Have It Here.

I suffered through 4 years of Archeage before finally calling it quits. You are making One very huge mistake.

The Race tokens are Not "compensation". To make that statement that these tokens are compensation is blatantly untrue.

Compensation is what you receive When you Can't play the game. The servers go down for an extended period of time (we're talking days, not hours) and the player can Not access the game. Once it is fixed, based on the length of time lost, players receive compensations.

This is a change. And I would like to point out, despite the claims of falling skies, the change is Not that major. ( OOOOh, you can only do 4850 damage now instead of 5000 ). There is No reason for Any compensation for simply making a few changes.

This is a Gift. (Granted, the gift still works Only within the confines of your specific game package. If you haven't paid for Imperials, you won't be able to race change into one. If you haven't paid for Any Alliance, whatever Alliance the character is will limit your choices as to what race you can switch to.) Zos understood that some people would feel their characters have been horribly abused by the changes, and so they offer you 3 free race changes.

This is Not "compensation". It's a gift. It's out of generosity.

Take it. Say thank you. Go play the game.

You focused a lot on the word compensation then you acquiesce that ZOS understood that some players would feel that their characters were "abused".

Point is, I when meta switched from Nirn/Infused to double infused, I transmuted, if I didn't have enough for all the gear I had, I grinded the crystals. Now mets switched to nirn/sharp or sharp/sharp for stam and I have to do this all over again but I don't mind.

The changes having a monetization component to it is a problem. It's a matter of ethics, of principle. To me it's a potential slippery slope but most people only think about what's immediate. You don't think anything of it now but another change in the future requires you to pay to adapt and, you'll be the one crying.

The conversation is a but selfish right now. I've stated that as customers you stand to gain nothing by opposing it and potentially lose in the future whereas, if you support you either gain nothing because you won't use it or gain something you could use.

One of the issues driving the opposition is the fact that the ones not supporting this are the ones that won't ever be able to see the difference in passives because they don't have either the skills or the desire to push their DPS.

Also your point about being fine with what is happening because you've seen worse is very silly. Here is a gross exaggeration: "I'm fine with annual murder rate being at 7% in my current city because it used to be 12% in the other place I lived". I don't see how an objectively bad or questionable situation is fine because you've seen worse. I really can't see how that works.

Without even considering the meta it's about the fact that players made choices for races and that the choices would've been different st this point.

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Just stop. Most games don't give you anything when they adjust racials or class abilities. We got THREE FREE race change and name change tokens and it's not enough for you when they didn't have to give us anything? This is the very definition of entitlement.

AlnilamE wrote: »

I think the best solution to this would be ZOS removing the option to race change altogether and we go back to the way things were at the beginning of the game.

That way people can't say they are balancing races because they want more money from players, even when they are giving people free race changes that a lot of players won't even use.

eso_lags wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

DISCLAIMER (my assessment of the situation and my opinions):

- I am a fan of the racial passive changes, they bring fun changes and most importantly bring much needed balance

- To adapt to new changes, real world money is required whereas to adapt to a new weapon-trait meta, you need to farm weapons or transmute crystals. I am OK with changes requiring a bit of grind but not with changes inducing someone to pay real-world money. My opinion but if you are OK with paying, I want you as a customer as well.

- The level of satisfaction with the amount of tokens granted is a direct function of the number of characters you have. The more characters, the less likely you are to be happy with the 3 race-change tokens granted

- ZOS did not have to give those tokens, they could've made us pay for ALL our race changes but this isn't about entitlement but about fairness

- They did not have to change racial passives to bring balance either (which cost money to change) and could've brought balance through other means like modification of the way the CP system functions

- As customers, nobody gains anything by shutting down a discussion, I am trying to bring a discussion about compensation for race changes, if you don't need anything, don't use it but shutting the discussion down has 2 negative effects on the customers:
- It makes those that need/want more compensation get nothing and leaves them dissatisfied
- It opens the door to more monetization tactics

- I am an ESO+ subscriber and I purchase Crowns for different needs so I am OK with supporting the game


I have had many discussions about the race changes and its impact and I have to say that I am disappointed to see what happened.

The compensation being what it is, the amount of race-change tokens allotted for someone who has 14 characters is too low and the "sale" they are having is what I predicted: Monetization of the Meta

I put sale in brackets here because I've seen 50% off sales in the past and this meager 20% is, to me, unacceptable if you take into account that these are changes THEY introduced to bring balance to different races but they could've found ways to bring balance that did not have to do with racial passives hence would not require you to spend money.

Yes the term "monetization of the meta" is strong for a change bringing races so close together in terms of DPS but the fact remains that IF those were the passives that were in effect some 8 to 19 months ago when I created my characters, my roster would've been completely different.

And that detail is irritating since I feel that those changes implemented after the fact could cause me to spend money is, I find, dishonest.

I want to ask other users what they think. Without even demanding compensation, do you think the fact that the changes require money is acceptable?

For those unsatisfied, would a more reasonable sale, again considering that they introduced those changes, make it more acceptable?

If so, what would be a reasonable sale?

You obviously know my answer to most of these question but if forced to pay money, I would consider at least 50-66% off to be acceptable. Why not sell token packs? 3k Crowns for 6 tokens. Selling a pack of token for a similar price would say: "We made changes, yes, but we're not going to give you guys everything so I'll cut you a deal to appease you".

I'm at least asking ZOS to meet me halfway.

We aren't going to get more changes. Count your blessings. I am happy they at least decided to give us 3 instead of one. But Ideally we should have gotten a few days to change our races around, those of us who care about playing competitively and anyone else who wanted to bother.

Or at least they could have given those of us, who didnt want the name changes, 3 more race change tokens instead. Because they are almost the same price and considering the circumstances i think it would have been appropriate.

But like i said, I am thankful we at least got 3 instead of one. Nothing else is going to change, it is what it is. What we are left with are those of us who see this whole situation for what it was, and those who dont. A racial re balance would have made every race equal, thats not what happened nor should it have happened. But still, making certain races better for play styles, and changing the ones we already have, will undoubtedly sell more race changes. Zos knew this.

And putting the race changes on sale might look like a kind gesture, but its not. Its business and this was a cash grab that is going to make them a lot of money. A lot of money they would not have had if they didnt make these changes. Money that didnt come from hard work of developing a new zone or dungeon, money that comes from creating a need that would have never been there if they didnt do what they did, knowing the only option for racial changes are from the crown store.