Commancho wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Plenty of people choose to play (you could say MORE than not) no CP content (where applicable)

That means that MORE people dont give a rats a** about CP and while tiny group might quit, vast majority would be quite fine.

Of course, relevant content (that was designed that way BECAUSE of insane power creep) would need rebalancing.

Show me someone who is playing PVE without spending his CPs, because it's "fun and challanging" xD
You have options to play noCP in PVP so what's your issue again? C'mon explain it.

frostz417 wrote: »

Before I begin... this thread is only speaking of PVE.. PvP is an entirely different topic to tackle. I try to sound the least bit condescending as possible in this rant so I apologize if I do.
Now I shall begin.

Following a statement Gina made about CP being an issue within pve...Who exactly is complaining about power creep in pve? End game pve’ers don’t seem to be complaining so it has to be the low cp casual pve’ers.
Keep in mind that even Max cp folk still struggle with hitting such top tier dps and with rotations. Cp doesn’t play a large Factor in this pve “power creep” powerful sets that zos introduces each patch are to blame. End gamers perfect their rotation to maximize their damage output, and with these powerful sets it makes it even higher. Not to mention they also have good knowledge of mechanics so they know what happens and when.. meaning they’re not spending much time trying to survive and they’re just focusing on damage until they NEED to avoid or defend against said mechanic. There are MANY 810 folk who still struggle to even hit 35k which is the minimal end game dps requirement. Clearly that’s not a CP powercreep issue. It’s a “I don’t have the right sets or proper rotation” issue.
Let’s also mention how the summerset patch where 2h weapon such as staves now count as 2 piece sets had a massive boost in dps for mag, along with extremely powerful pve sets such as mantle of siroria, and arms of the relequen... both made end game dps skyrocket. Cp is not at fault for this so I’m not sure who keeps spreading these false claims.

I’m going to quote something Gina
posted about CP in the class rep meeting notes,
“We spent a fair amount of time discussing the Champion Point system because it is our belief that the power creep in this system is responsible for many of the issues ZOS is trying to address in the first place (such as players being able to avoid mechanics, not have to make difficult build choices, and the feeling that healers are not needed)”

Seriously? Avoiding mechanics due to CP? What? I STRONGLY disagree. As someone who’ went from cp 400 to max cp and I did mostly pve (trials vet dlc dungeons) etc. Healers aren’t needed because recently all the vet dlc dungeons zos has created are ALL ONE SHOT MECHANICS.
Falkreath hold, bloodroot force, scalecaller peak, fanglair, March of sacrifices, moon hunter keep. All these dungeons have MULTIPLE 1 shot mechanics. I won’t list them due to the list being extremely long but I can if someone really wants me to.
CP isn’t the reason for us avoiding mechanics. The reason for us avoiding mechanics because they only consist of 1 shots. Why do I need a healer if they cannot heal through a 1 shot mechanic. It’s a waste of a person. Might as well 3 dps 1 tank everything since we can just avoid the 1 shot mechanics and there’s virtually nothing to be healed from.
In veteran trials you clearly need 2 tanks 2 healers 8 damage dealers and never needed any less. The reason people burn through this content so effectively is because maybe they’ve ran the content multiple times and know what happens and when. Not to mention on PC you have addons that further help dps and mechanic knowledge.

Rather than just stating “beliefs” with no support for these empty beliefs maybe you guys should get some FACTS to support these claims instead of just discussing random topics.

I will add in another quote,
“The class reps agreed and added the problem goes deeper; since Bosses don’t have CP, they aren’t getting the -X% modifiers. The end result is that players quickly out-scale and become too strong for any PvE content that gets released.”

I will reiterate that all pve content that has gotten released recently are all either mini trials which people complete in under 10 minutes since it’s extremely short, mechanics consist of stack&burn tactics and avoid this 1 shot mechanic with minimal effort put into them or dlc dungeons with nothing but 1 shot mechanics where you don’t need a healer since as previously stated. Healers can’t heal through 1 shot mechanics so everyone just does 3 dps and a tank.
I’d like to also add in that when we actually had hard and creative trials that zos took time creating such as vmol, vhof... people took months to progress and only 4 teams that I know of across all platforms have gotten tick tock tormentor. Where as veteran asylum and veteran cloudrest people complete within 10 minutes and already have all the achievements associated with them since the mechanics are easy and repetitive.
Might I also add in ever since the 2h counting as 2 piece bonuses healers have gotten far lazier in trials since they just slap on earthgore (a set that never should’ve been created) and groups are able to survive far easier than they should be with this crutch set. Why put 100% effort when you can just have a measly earthgore proc and make the group nearly invulnerable for 6 seconds.
The issue isn’t CP making pve content too easy. No the issue zos is YOU constantly breaking things. Brokenly overpowered sets such as mantle of siroria, arms of the relequen, spell strategist, earthgore, zaan, etc etc. These sets give a massive boost to dps or healing with little to no effort at all. The issue is YOU create content like mini trials that are able to be completed in under 10 minutes since the mechanics are lazily implemented, or the fact that YOU add in DLC dungeons that ONLY contain 1 shot mechanics. Everyone runs 3 dps and a tank because all vet DLC dungeons mechanics only consist of “have x or you instantly die.” Maybe if you implemented heal checks in dungeons or actually made trials where you didn’t have to fight all the bosses at once and just have mechanics where you avoid 1 shots and actually implemented heal checks like in Veteran Halls of Fabrication content would actually be good.

Players also have become too strong because they have exponential knowledge of mechanics, Skill optimization, and gear. Cp plays a small factor in this.
People aren’t hitting 50k+ dps because of cp. they’re hitting those numbers due to perfected rotations and powerful gear and flawless skill optimization. Maybe if pve content actually has creative mechanics like the monster trials of veteran halls of fabrication and veteran maw or lorkaj where people spent MONTHS progressing and completing it instead of just easy mini trials with the same mechanics, or dungeons only consisting of 1 shot mechanics we wouldn’t be having this issue of people just completing pve content easily.

The fact that zos decided to pin the blame on CP without providing any evidence or facts to support such a claim honestly worries me since it just makes it seem like all end gamers are in for a massive and unnecessary nerf to all their characters because of the false claims of CP being an issue in pve. You need to play your game more rather than making these claims based on belief.

@Zedrian made a very good quote in one of the cp threads.
“And when you see the clear contrast in difficulty between killing a world boss, Fungal Grotto last boss and the new Hardmore trials, I don't think CP is the cause to this imbalanced difficulty, but the content itself should be revisited and adapted to the player base. When One Tamriel was released, everything outside of trials has become much easier because difficulty was meant to be adapted for everyone instead of keeping levels of difficulty”

In conclusion,
“We spent a fair amount of time discussing the Champion Point system because it is our BELIEF that the power creep in this system is responsible for many of the issues”
beliefs mean nothing. You have provided no facts to support such a belief. A fact is your content has become too easy and I dare say lazy with mini trials being released and completed on such short notice due to the trial having easy mechanics, and vet dlc dungeons only consisting of one shot mechanics making the role of a healer obsolete.
Another fact is that zos keeps adding in overpowered sets every patch that further improve dps. Rather than adding 3 proc sets each patch maybe you should stop adding in broken sets and just fix the old ones that are completely disregarded and obsolete. I honestly am convinced zos does not play their own game as much as they need to. These constant unnecessary nerfs without any explanation or logic behind them prove it. The fact that they have “beliefs” instead of actually supporting claims with actual FACTS makes me very concerned. I sincerely hope this cp “rework” isn’t some colossal nerf to all end game players because you “believe” that cp is the reason for your content being completed so easily. This statement you guys made has me extremely worried for the future of the game.
@Zos_GinaBruno