Gear RNG is dumb and incompatible with your vision of the game.

alphaguitarb14_ESO · February 2019

What is this low IQ gearing system?? Spending hundreds of thousands of AP on bags of random goodies mostly just getting duplicate rings?? You tell people you want them to build their characters their own way, but then rely on RNG so that you can stop getting oneshot in bgs against gear-capped people because your MMR system doesn't separate people into CP gear level tiers. Instant queues are great but not worth the cost of completely mismatched games. The fact that BGs were about 10x more fun while leveling than after 50 is a really bad sign, the rewards system shouldn't make it worse.

DeathStalker_X · February 2019

IMHO, BG is the worst aspect of the game.

RNG instead of skill level/percentage, imho, is a weak way out. The devs & designers don't have to think too much to do it.

Ackwalan · February 2019

Whatever ZOS replaces the CP system with, I hope it is not a level progression system. It wouldn't be fun having to grind out new gear every 6 months just to back to where you were. Especially the way RNG works in this game.

witchdoctor · February 2019

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whatever ZOS replaces the CP system with, I hope it is not a level progression system. It wouldn't be fun having to grind out new gear every 6 months just to back to where you were. Especially the way RNG works in this game.

I'm not a ZOS dev, but I think it is obvious the RNG we have is in place of the gear grind you find in a level-progression game (e.g., WoW).

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

BUT!!, it only blows until you get it. Then you have it forever as the gear cap is CP 160.

I would hope if CP was replaced by a level-progression (which would fairly undo OT, so I'd think unlikely), the RNG would be minimised drastically as well.

alphaguitarb14_ESO · February 2019

witchdoctor wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whatever ZOS replaces the CP system with, I hope it is not a level progression system. It wouldn't be fun having to grind out new gear every 6 months just to back to where you were. Especially the way RNG works in this game.

I'm not a ZOS dev, but I think it is obvious the RNG we have is in place of the gear grind you find in a level-progression game (e.g., WoW).

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

BUT!!, it only blows until you get it. Then you have it forever as the gear cap is CP 160.

I would hope if CP was replaced by a level-progression (which would fairly undo OT, so I'd think unlikely), the RNG would be minimised drastically as well.

What, if they're going to allow vendors then just have real vendors. It's that simple, WoW is losing PvP subs big time over dumb RNG gearing too.

Juhasow · February 2019

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whatever ZOS replaces the CP system with, I hope it is not a level progression system. It wouldn't be fun having to grind out new gear every 6 months just to back to where you were. Especially the way RNG works in this game.

I'm not a ZOS dev, but I think it is obvious the RNG we have is in place of the gear grind you find in a level-progression game (e.g., WoW).

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

BUT!!, it only blows until you get it. Then you have it forever as the gear cap is CP 160.

I would hope if CP was replaced by a level-progression (which would fairly undo OT, so I'd think unlikely), the RNG would be minimised drastically as well.

What, if they're going to allow vendors then just have real vendors. It's that simple, WoW is losing PvP subs big time over dumb RNG gearing too.

PvP vendors are fine as they are. It's not like those boxes cost some insane amount of AP and there is also retraiting system. Also fact it's rng drop keep it from being drastically cheap so PvPers can make some money out of those items especially with new update coming out.

alphaguitarb14_ESO · February 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whatever ZOS replaces the CP system with, I hope it is not a level progression system. It wouldn't be fun having to grind out new gear every 6 months just to back to where you were. Especially the way RNG works in this game.

I'm not a ZOS dev, but I think it is obvious the RNG we have is in place of the gear grind you find in a level-progression game (e.g., WoW).

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

BUT!!, it only blows until you get it. Then you have it forever as the gear cap is CP 160.

I would hope if CP was replaced by a level-progression (which would fairly undo OT, so I'd think unlikely), the RNG would be minimised drastically as well.

What, if they're going to allow vendors then just have real vendors. It's that simple, WoW is losing PvP subs big time over dumb RNG gearing too.

PvP vendors are fine as they are. It's not like those boxes cost some insane amount of AP and there is also retraiting system. Also fact it's rbg drop keep it from being drastically cheap so pvPers can make some money out of those items especially with new update coming out.

You might have an argument there, if they separated out the queues a little better by CP gear level so that you're not coming in fresh 50 and getting globalled by CP 160 guys, but the need to gear quickly is paramount because they don't. It's like they're telling you "hey we know you were able to have a good experience leveling through bgs 1-50, but now you need to screw off and go grind dolmens or whatever til CP 160 because we're going to bend you over". It's just not a logically consistent game design.

Juhasow · February 2019

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whatever ZOS replaces the CP system with, I hope it is not a level progression system. It wouldn't be fun having to grind out new gear every 6 months just to back to where you were. Especially the way RNG works in this game.

I'm not a ZOS dev, but I think it is obvious the RNG we have is in place of the gear grind you find in a level-progression game (e.g., WoW).

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

BUT!!, it only blows until you get it. Then you have it forever as the gear cap is CP 160.

I would hope if CP was replaced by a level-progression (which would fairly undo OT, so I'd think unlikely), the RNG would be minimised drastically as well.

What, if they're going to allow vendors then just have real vendors. It's that simple, WoW is losing PvP subs big time over dumb RNG gearing too.

PvP vendors are fine as they are. It's not like those boxes cost some insane amount of AP and there is also retraiting system. Also fact it's rbg drop keep it from being drastically cheap so pvPers can make some money out of those items especially with new update coming out.

You might have an argument there, if they separated out the queues a little better by CP gear level so that you're not coming in fresh 50 and getting globalled by CP 160 guys, but the need to gear quickly is paramount because they don't. It's like they're telling you "hey we know you were able to have a good experience leveling through bgs 1-50, but now you need to screw off and go grind dolmens or whatever til CP 160 because we're going to bend you over". It's just not a logically consistent game design.

Yeah I know that issue exist and lv 50 players are getting kinda screwed while getting 1st 160 CP if they want to do it while in PvP areas. This isnt issue with gear system in the game though but more like flaw in progression design.

Undefwun · February 2019

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

The fact that BGs were about 10x more fun while leveling than after 50 is a really bad sign, the rewards system shouldn't make it worse.

<50 is "fun" because 9/10 games you are slaughtering potatoes...

(that 1 game you gonna get a couple pvp experienced people who have twinked their toons and you get a taste of what it's like >50....)

NocturnalSonata · February 2019

Stopped Vma after getting maul after maul. I can live without the lightning staff.
Gave up on the BSW inferno - 40+runs and nothing
Gave up on Cloudrest - 50+ runs and no olorime light staff nor did anyone else get it in those runs.

The list goes on...

Grinding is fine if there is an actual chance, but 50 runs into something is the point no sane person would continue.

StormChaser3000 · February 2019

I'm getting an impression that RNG is rigged somehow. For example once I was grinding a zone which had A, B and C gear and I needed lightning and inferno staves of B and C kinds.
As a result I got a ton of different useless A staves, and a ton of (4-5 each) frost and resto staves of the gear type B and C. I got ZERO of needed items after searching for hours even tho the chances in theory were supposed to be not too bad... WTH?

ruikkarikun · February 2019

NocturnalSonata wrote: »

Stopped Vma after getting maul after maul. I can live without the lightning staff.
Gave up on the BSW inferno - 40+runs and nothing
Gave up on Cloudrest - 50+ runs and no olorime light staff nor did anyone else get it in those runs.

The list goes on...

Grinding is fine if there is an actual chance, but 50 runs into something is the point no sane person would continue.

Agree. But about vMA, just wait for Orcinium DLC event with increased chances, and it will be very big chance to get all weapons.

starkerealm · February 2019

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

...but then rely on RNG so that you can stop getting oneshot in bgs against gear-capped people...

If this is happening, there's no gear in the game that can save you. (I guess, technically Eternal Disappointment could, but that's a different story.)

MMR is based on performance on that character. If you're getting instant queues, that means you're on the low end of the spectrum, getting picked off by the occasional player climbing the ladder on an alt, or there's something really wrong with your build.

ESO is not particularly gear based. You can easily put together a solid set of gear for PvP for less than 10k gold. Assuming you're not blindly copying an Alcast build, anyway. If you're getting burst down before you can react, mistakes were made on your end, when you got into that situation.

starkerealm · February 2019

witchdoctor wrote: »

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

To be fair, there is a unique Sunderflame bow, so it's heavier on the drop table. But, COA knows how to hurt us in other ways:

Alinhbo_Tyaka · February 2019

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whatever ZOS replaces the CP system with, I hope it is not a level progression system. It wouldn't be fun having to grind out new gear every 6 months just to back to where you were. Especially the way RNG works in this game.

I'm not a ZOS dev, but I think it is obvious the RNG we have is in place of the gear grind you find in a level-progression game (e.g., WoW).

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

BUT!!, it only blows until you get it. Then you have it forever as the gear cap is CP 160.

I would hope if CP was replaced by a level-progression (which would fairly undo OT, so I'd think unlikely), the RNG would be minimised drastically as well.

What, if they're going to allow vendors then just have real vendors. It's that simple, WoW is losing PvP subs big time over dumb RNG gearing too.

When I left WoW it wasn't just PvP players teed off about gear RNG.

kringled_1 · February 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

alphaguitarb14_ESO wrote: »

...but then rely on RNG so that you can stop getting oneshot in bgs against gear-capped people...

If this is happening, there's no gear in the game that can save you. (I guess, technically Eternal Disappointment could, but that's a different story.)

MMR is based on performance on that character. If you're getting instant queues, that means you're on the low end of the spectrum, getting picked off by the occasional player climbing the ladder on an alt, or there's something really wrong with your build.

ESO is not particularly gear based. You can easily put together a solid set of gear for PvP for less than 10k gold. Assuming you're not blindly copying an Alcast build, anyway. If you're getting burst down before you can react, mistakes were made on your end, when you got into that situation.

I think the issue is that he is level 50 but not yet CP160, and does not have a crafter available to him so relying on dropped gear. So he's likely to be terribly undergeared compared to other players. It's not something that affects a huge number of people given that CP is shared.

VaranisArano · February 2019

Honestly, RNG that gets you to spend more time grinding in game to get what you want is very much compatible with ZOS' vision for the game.

Now, the odd split that happens for CP 1-159 players in Battlegrounds where they are competing with players with CP 160 gear...that's a different issue. The MMR needs work in a lot of ways.

VaranisArano · February 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Sure, the RNG blows horribly. It is sometimes soul crushingly awful. Vet MA for a bow or inferno staff. How many times have people run COA for a BSW inferno staff only to get a Sunderflame bow?

To be fair, there is a unique Sunderflame bow, so it's heavier on the drop table. But, COA knows how to hurt us in other ways:

Ouch. Wow, that's just a perfect storm of painful RNG.

Merlight · February 2019

What's wrong with the Burning Spellweave staff? The weapon type at least matches set effects. Trait doesn't matter.

But why do combinations like these even exist?

Ri_Khan · February 2019

The rng has become such a huge turn-off for me with this game. I can understand why the drop rates of the most powerful and highly sought-after gear is a little ridiculous but why does it feel like the same insane rarity get's applied to recipes and motifs? There's literally thousands of these things to try and collect and from what I've experienced, it's an enormous waste of time to even bother farming it on your own. At this point, I'm convinced it's all rigged to force everyone to use the terrible trading system

Holycannoli · February 2019

Undefwun wrote: »

<50 is "fun" because 9/10 games you are slaughtering potatoes...

Not for me. My under-50 toons queue with random gear found during leveling and skills on the bar being leveled and they get slaughtered

mairwen85 · February 2019

@starkerealm

Bsw staff, inferno, any trait is rare. Trait doesn't even matter, you can transmute, reenchant, what's the problem? Ffs its like 1 in a billion chance to get it any trait at all.

I got it once in the early days, didn't know what I had, swapped it for the neck... Thought I'd get it soon enough. We'll, several years on, never dropped again.

kringled_1 · February 2019

You guys aren't looking closely. That's a level 49 BSW inferno.

randomkeyhits · February 2019

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

I'm getting an impression that RNG is rigged somehow. For example once I was grinding a zone which had A, B and C gear and I needed lightning and inferno staves of B and C kinds.
As a result I got a ton of different useless A staves, and a ton of (4-5 each) frost and resto staves of the gear type B and C. I got ZERO of needed items after searching for hours even tho the chances in theory were supposed to be not too bad... WTH?

Its not uncommon, many games do it and its as simple as weighted loot tables. You don't actually rig RNG itself its just certain items have a smaller chance of appearing. In itself its a pain but with the above someone is going to want the items which have a higher drop chance so at least a few are happy plus the genuinely lucky ones who beat the loot tables.

Where it becomes worse is when the loot table is negatively chosen from a selection based on the character. Can't actually say that ESO does this but an example would be magicka characters may be given the loot table with lower chances for light gear and staves, high stamina could get low chance of medium gear, bow, one-handed and so on. All you see is that RNG does not appear to favour you.

Personally I'm unsure unless I'm grinding for something then I'm 100% sure at least until it finally drops.........

exeeter702 · February 2019

mairwen85 wrote: »

@starkerealm

Bsw staff, inferno, any trait is rare. Trait doesn't even matter, you can transmute, reenchant, what's the problem? Ffs its like 1 in a billion chance to get it any trait at all.

I got it once in the early days, didn't know what I had, swapped it for the neck... Thought I'd get it soon enough. We'll, several years on, never dropped again.

Merlight wrote: »

What's wrong with the Burning Spellweave staff? The weapon type at least matches set effects. Trait doesn't matter.

But why do combinations like these even exist?

The staff is lvl 49 you dolts XD.

Merlight · February 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

The staff is lvl 49 you dolts XD.

Thanks for enriching my vocabulary.

VaranisArano · February 2019

kringled_1 wrote: »

You guys aren't looking closely. That's a level 49 BSW inferno.

I'm just terribly amused that its a level 49 training trait BSW inferno staff. So it will become useless the moment you level up even once (assuming a CP account).

mairwen85 · February 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@starkerealm

Bsw staff, inferno, any trait is rare. Trait doesn't even matter, you can transmute, reenchant, what's the problem? Ffs its like 1 in a billion chance to get it any trait at all.

I got it once in the early days, didn't know what I had, swapped it for the neck... Thought I'd get it soon enough. We'll, several years on, never dropped again.

Merlight wrote: »

What's wrong with the Burning Spellweave staff? The weapon type at least matches set effects. Trait doesn't matter.

But why do combinations like these even exist?

The staff is lvl 49 you dolts XD.

LOL. Been so long since I paid attention to gear level I didn't notice.

Taleof2Cities · February 2019

RNG certainly has its ups and downs.

Now going on 60+ runs in Maelstrom and still no Winterborn Ice Staff. Some of those runs were the double drops in the Orsinium Event. You don’t want to know how many Winterborn Bows I’ve deconned.

First clear in vet DSA I got exactly what I wanted ... Master’s Restoration Staff.

Sheezabeast · February 2019

My CP 160 purple Burning Spellweave Ice staff laughs at your lvl 49 training inferno

starkerealm · February 2019

Sheezabeast wrote: »

My CP 160 purple Burning Spellweave Ice staff laughs at your lvl 49 training inferno

Yeah, I don't think I've ever even seen a lightning or ice BSW staff. I do have a spare BSW resto staff (and have deconed extras there), but still.

Though, in all fairness, I already had a pair of 160 BSW flame staves when that thing dropped.

Merlight wrote: »

What's wrong with the Burning Spellweave staff? The weapon type at least matches set effects. Trait doesn't matter.

But why do combinations like these even exist?

Some of my favorite, derp, drops at 160 are things like Mending Bows and War Machine lightning staves. I did learn the hard way not to crunch Mending Shields after I realized what I could do with that, and some things like IA Greatswords do have a real, niche, use. But, yeah, level 49 BSW inferno staff. Ouch.