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Would you want Racial Variants as a potential expansion to personal character identity?

Calibanana
Calibanana
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Hey hey, everyone! To those of you who have seen my three or four posts in the PTS you may have a general idea of what to expect. To everyone else, welcome! I've been playing ESO for a few years now, and have been a fan of TES for even longer. One thing I've always loved about TES games is the amount of freedom you can have with how you develop your character. Their background, skills, appearance, story, it's all great. And I enjoy it in ESO as well! It's often been a key point in TES, and is one of the things that gives the series just that extra bit of flair.

For those of you who haven't been of the PTS forums recently, there's been a lot of discussion regarding the changes to racial passives. Some have been considered great, others not so much. There seem to be many who are upset and feel swindled, and I don't entirely blame them. While I tend to enjoy the game mostly for the fun I have, I can definitely see that some people would care more about the competitive scene or the Trials scene, and many of these changes are less than stellar. And so we come to the main point of this poll: Racial Variants.

I'll begin by giving a general explanation of this idea. Racial Variants would, primarily, be an expansion or alteration to character creation when designing/redesigning your characters. Each race would have likely two to three playable variants, allowing for a wider range of appearance and customization for your character. One example could be an "Auridon Altmer" versus a "Direnni Altmer". While both of them are Altmer, and are thus both subject to the same general racial passives, they may have different scales on their looks. An Auridon Altmer could be seen as the default Altmer, what we have now, while a Direnni Altmer might have a shorter minimum height and softer physical features due to the potential of having Nedic ancestry. A better example, of course, is the Furstocks of Khajiit. The obvious three would be Dagi, Cathay, and Pahmar (assuming Legends is accurate). The Dagi would have the shortest height range possible, rivaling that of the Bosmer. The Cathay would be the default. And the Pahmar would have a much taller height range, and possibly a larger overall build.

While that covers the general physical aspects of Racial Variants, it's best now if we look to the real meat of this poll: Passive Changes. After all, bringing up the racial passive debates going on in the PTS forum would be silly without providing a reason. The differences in racial passives wouldn't necessarily reflect differences between two cultures, like the differences between a Nord and a Khajiit, but rather the differences of upbringing within communities of a particular culture. Different areas can produce different philosophies, and this change of allowing variants to replace certain passives would reflect that your passives are not just your racial heritage, but your upbringing as well. A good example of such differences is the in-game book In the Company of Wood Orcs by Sisarion. The book itself details a key difference of combat philosophy between an Orc from Wrothgar, and an Orc from Valenwood. The point here is that even within one race, you can have differences of upbringing between broader groups.

So what does this all mean, and what does it entail? In a nutshell, it would allow players to choose a variant of a race not just for appearance, but function as well. The changed passive would be on display at character creation (the difference between the default passive and the new variant), and I feel it would allow for a wider range of character creation and personal development. I must stress that I am certainly not a game developer, and this idea may not pan out well or even work at all. So to those of you who sat there and read all of this, thank you! Feel free to answer the poll, comment, or even add suggestions to how this could be tweaked and implemented. I hope you all have a wonderful day!

Would you want Racial Variants as a potential expansion to personal character identity? 47 votes

Yes, this sounds interesting and could allow for more freedom with character creation.
68%
sarahvhoffb14_ESOAlienSlofAjaxandrielCouslyAsmodeusDarkTheShadowScoutSibeniceCompletelyToasttheher0notFischblutShinshadowFLL200CTokenIntellectDrathlyeso_nyanotyuuHappyLittleTreeChaos2088PrinsethMarledor 32 votes
No, it could potentially cause untold balance issues or other problems.
23%
moonsugar66AcrolasNerouynTandorRi_KhanTheBonesXXXHvzedaAcadianPaladin_Salty_Argonianwerecroc212EliteWarrior 11 votes
Maybe, but here's what could be different...(feel free to add a personal change)
8%
NarthalionKetarmishlogarifmikStarlock 4 votes
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    Maybe, but here's what could be different...(feel free to add a personal change)
    I find the idea interesting, but I have to go with a hard "maybe" in part because there's just no precedent for subracials in the Elder Scrolls Universe when it comes to game mechanics. Those of us who hail from the tabletop RPG environment are of course familiar with them, but it's something that's been noticeably absent in most computer/video game RPGs aside from the more hardcore classic RPGs. I can only speculate about the reasons for that, but I wager it is largely for simplicity. Many RPGs these days have undergone noticeable dumbing down of their RPG elements, from removal of attributes to the lack of real branching quest lines. I don't see the developers adding in that extra layer of classic RPG complexity. Perhaps for Elder Scrolls Online 2, though... if that is something on the table.
  • Narthalion
    Narthalion
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    Maybe, but here's what could be different...(feel free to add a personal change)
    Two sets of passives per race would be a huge and positive change. The downside, ZOS's work for creating and balancing racial passives would double. I think it's worth doing and would have been a better use of the developers' time than the current round of changes.

    Tying the sets of passives to racial variants is an interesting idea, but I'd be concerned that this would recreate some of the same frustration for players. You'd still end up with people who prefer the look of one of the variants, but want the passives of the other. Also a concern, the extra art potentially required. If a variant is going to be different enough to require a new model, I would guess that's going to incur development costs and potentially performance consequences (since you're adding a lot of art data to what the client already needs to load to display all the characters around you). So, I hesitate to support this part of the idea, even though I generally like it.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    No, it could potentially cause untold balance issues or other problems.
    No change to the present system would satisfy everyone, and the present changes to racial passives have actually produced far fewer complaints than some of the previous core changes to the game. In a recent poll here only 25% said they would change the race of their character(s). That percentage is, of course, in respect of players and not characters. I suspect overall a trivial number of characters will have their race changed.

    As it happens, I'm entirely happy with both the core racial system as existing and the current changes to the racial passives, so I see no need to throw the whole racial system into a melting pot and come up with a completely different system as proposed here.

    As @Starlock has said, it's also contrary to TES precedents. I suspect many will also believe there to be far greater priorities for significant development time.
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    No, it could potentially cause untold balance issues or other problems.
    I remain a proponent of having racials purely cosmetic - like gender. That greatly simplifies things while adding loads of freedom to players. My primary challenge regarding race is that current racials channel characters into stamina or magicka roles. My magic Bosmers take exception to that as would, I expect, one of the greatest mages in history (Shalador - a Nord).
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • sage2000
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    Yes, this sounds interesting and could allow for more freedom with character creation.
    It's a neat idea and I like the versatility it adds. That said, I very much doubt we'll ever see it. Given the resources the devs have already devoted to racial re-balancing, how far we are into that process, how contentious that process has been, and the extra layer of complexity this would add, I just would not get my hopes up.

    It also seems pretty rare for the devs to implement game system concepts from players TBH.
  • Nerouyn
    Nerouyn
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    No, it could potentially cause untold balance issues or other problems.
    Your poll question says "want". I definitely don't "want" this.

    I want racial passives to go away. It's racist garbage which diminishes the IP and makes ESO less fun.

    Your idea - not even close to a new one of course, might be more tolerable than the existing situation. But getting rid of them is my clear and strong preference.
  • TheBonesXXX
    TheBonesXXX
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    No, it could potentially cause untold balance issues or other problems.
    I'm full up on obsessions with identity.
  • rexagamemnon
    rexagamemnon
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    Yes, this sounds interesting and could allow for more freedom with character creation.
    They gutted Imperials! ZOS should have gone with the colovian/nibeney option at the very least.
    But no, “lets gut the only race you have to purchase with an upgrade”-ZOS

    #makeimperialsgreatagain
  • HappyLittleTree
    HappyLittleTree
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    Yes, this sounds interesting and could allow for more freedom with character creation.
    Yes, I want Naga Tribe Argonians !!!

    With stamina focused passives :heart:
    Edited by HappyLittleTree on February 15, 2019 11:02AM
    Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!

    XBox-EU
  • logarifmik
    logarifmik
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    Maybe, but here's what could be different...(feel free to add a personal change)
    I'd prefer to see something like background options from "Pillars of Eternity". Like: a former slave, a merchant, a mercenary, a farmer, a novice mage, a philosopher, an adventurer, etc. Each of these options gives your character a certain passive/active ability, maybe a special quest or a questline and introduces unique references in some dialogues. The last one is impossible of course with current state of script and dialogue writing. There were some attempts to introduce something like that at early stages of development I suppose, but it seems that they gave up eventually.
    Edited by logarifmik on February 15, 2019 1:22PM
    EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
    Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
    Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Yes, this sounds interesting and could allow for more freedom with character creation.
    This is probably only way to make each race viable for every role, without making them OP.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    No, it could potentially cause untold balance issues or other problems.
    This is probably only way to make each race viable for every role, without making them OP.

    Or uniformly boring.
  • ghastley
    ghastley
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    I like the appearance aspect, but there's too much to try and balance in the other parts. You'd effectively be creating a lot more races, and it's already too crowded in that respect.

  • Ri_Khan
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    No, it could potentially cause untold balance issues or other problems.
    You want more complexity added to a system that they can't seem to balance as-is?
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