The Real Fix Necessary Regarding Snares

MalagenR · February 2019

There have been multiple threads created about this, because we are all just throwing our opinion into the wind I thought I might add mine as a thread too:

The only snare that is truly a problem is the Permafrost ultimate. This ultimate is significantly overperforming because it does the following:

Snare
Root
Stun
Damage
& Offers Group Buff Major Protection

You get all of this, plus major protection for your group, without having to hit a synergy.

To rebalance I propose the following:
Remove the stun
Move Group Buff Major Protection to require someone in the group to press the synergy other than the Warden, but the group will still benefit if one person presses the synergy.

This will make Warden think three times before they charge headlong into a group spamming WOE Frost & Permafrost + Impulse.

MalagenR · February 2019

I would also like to add that with the above changes 95% of the community will stop dying so much to snares and the nerf threads you see on the forums related to snares will disappear.

VaranisArano · February 2019

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works for large groups with the Rapid Maneuvers change, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

_Ahala_ · February 2019

Perma doesn’t root...

MalagenR · February 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

MalagenR · February 2019

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Perma doesn’t root...

You're right, whoops! Read it wrong! Will correct my post, the stun should still be removed.

_Ahala_ · February 2019

If the stun is removed, perma will need something new to distinguish it from northern as currently the stun is the morph effect

MalagenR · February 2019

_Ahala_ wrote: »

If the stun is removed, perma will need something new to distinguish it from northern as currently the stun is the morph effect

Increase the damage or keep the stun and remove the Major Protection.

_Ahala_ · February 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

If the stun is removed, perma will need something new to distinguish it from northern as currently the stun is the morph effect

Increase the damage or keep the stun and remove the Major Protection.

A thousand times yes to the increased damage less cc idea for a sleet storm morph... Though I would rather northern storm had more damage and perma had the protection with lower damage so mag dps could utilize the max mag passive...

As a magden main I would love to actually have more pure dps morphs in winters embrace and I’ve never understood why practically every morph in our ice tree is only useful for health tanks or defensively overloaded at the expense of offense... it’s like with arctic blast, shimmering slab, and frozen retreat... why do they scale on health and or do garbage damage? Can we have some more ice dps that is not attached to brain dead cc spam?

Also... on a completely different note I would love if arctic blast was not the worst stun in the game... what’s up with this high cost, health scaling heal, no damage, highly telegraphed, blockable, dodgeable garbage ability?

ccmedaddy · February 2019

I'd much rather them tone down the damage and the snare (cut by half?) on Permafrost, since the stun is kind of the point of taking that morph. And maybe make the Major Protection buff apply to the caster only and your teammates have to activate synergy to get it.

Other than the Major Protection part, Northern Storm doesn't really need to be changed. One of the few class ultimates in this game that's actually useful in a variety of situations without being overbearing.

Ranger209 · February 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

MalagenR · February 2019

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

You can't do that without significantly rebalancing damage. Which requires gear itemization balances, max stat balancing, etc. etc. etc.

Ranger209 · February 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

You can't do that without significantly rebalancing damage. Which requires gear itemization balances, max stat balancing, etc. etc. etc.

why?

MalagenR · February 2019

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

You can't do that without significantly rebalancing damage. Which requires gear itemization balances, max stat balancing, etc. etc. etc.

why?

Because snares are defensive mechanism, not an offensive mechanism. If you nerf defense, you have to nerf offense. Especially because the classes that use snares defensively are using them specifically because of the high powered offense that already exists in the game.

I suppose you could also just buff all the classes that use snares defensively so that their damage is on par with Nightblades, StamDK's, and Stamplars - but then people will just start crying for damage nerfs.

DeadlyRecluse · February 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

You can't do that without significantly rebalancing damage. Which requires gear itemization balances, max stat balancing, etc. etc. etc.

why?

Because snares are defensive mechanism, not an offensive mechanism. If you nerf defense, you have to nerf offense. Especially because the classes that use snares defensively are using them specifically because of the high powered offense that already exists in the game.

Snares are also an offensive mechanism for certain specs. Templar sweeps, for example, become much more effective offensively if you have a snare in play.

MalagenR · February 2019

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

You can't do that without significantly rebalancing damage. Which requires gear itemization balances, max stat balancing, etc. etc. etc.

why?

Because snares are defensive mechanism, not an offensive mechanism. If you nerf defense, you have to nerf offense. Especially because the classes that use snares defensively are using them specifically because of the high powered offense that already exists in the game.

Snares are also an offensive mechanism for certain specs. Templar sweeps, for example, become much more effective offensively if you have a snare in play.

Yea that's why I edited my comment. You're not wrong, it enhances offense, but it's an essential tool in kiting, which is a significant defensive tool for any ranged player.

DeadlyRecluse · February 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

You can't do that without significantly rebalancing damage. Which requires gear itemization balances, max stat balancing, etc. etc. etc.

why?

Because snares are defensive mechanism, not an offensive mechanism. If you nerf defense, you have to nerf offense. Especially because the classes that use snares defensively are using them specifically because of the high powered offense that already exists in the game.

Snares are also an offensive mechanism for certain specs. Templar sweeps, for example, become much more effective offensively if you have a snare in play.

Yea that's why I edited my comment. You're not wrong, it enhances offense, but it's an essential tool in kiting, which is a significant defensive tool for any ranged player.

Yeah, no real argument there. I'm just a pedant.

Iskiab · February 2019

I’m a healer who uses cloak, snares contribute to my deaths a lot. Good points in this thread, despite it contributing to my deaths they do NOT need an overhaul.

Melee already have a large advantage in the game. Those asking to never be snared as a melee just want to be overpowered.

Get_Packed · February 2019

The real problem is they nerfed mobility instead of just nerfing swift. Now you all want nerf permafrost which is the same permafrost that has been in the game without anybody complaining.

Cho cho all aboard the nerf train!

Ranger209 · February 2019

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

I disagree, i think people are only complaining about snares, much like they complain about everything else on these forums, because of what's killing them.

Caltrops and Frost Wall of Elements have existed in the game for a long time before the speed changes both positive and negative, and nobody complained.

Now we get everyone rerolling MagWardens and half the leaderboards in BG's are Magwarden's and everyone is spamming "Nerf Snares!"

It's not Snares. it's Permafrost running Magwardens killing people who don't know how to play.

There is literally not a single skill in the game that offers as much as Permafrost does from the Ultimate Perspective. I'm not even sure how the skill got through testing. I didn't even realize till I looked it up the other day that everyone standing in it gets Major Protection, complete BS.

Nerfs to snare removal and mobility were done in accordance to necessary rebalance regarding Magicka DPS active defense. Instead of running Stam Regen + Mag Regen (because you literally cannot and compete against any real stam meta players) we were given nerfs to mobility which buffed the impact of snares as a form of active defense as a Magicka player.

This is the perfect way to balance the shield nerf, it just took a ton of the community way to long to catch on, so now Stamina players who are used to exploding magicka players are finally having to work for it and are complaining because it requires an adjustment other than spamming cloak and pressing Incap/DBOS.

You can't change snares unless you nerf Stam Burst DPS.

Actually my concerns go way back beyond shield nerfs, snare removal nerfs, beyond even wardens being in the game. It falls on clunky, or specialized, or non existent counters to both hard and soft CC. I am in disagreement with the way CC in general has too much of, and sometimes a downright crippling effect on gameplay. I think it should be more nuanced, and I don't think any need to be removed, but rather toned down and given good reliable counters which grant short term immunity that is available to all classes and specs. As a matter of fact I would do one or the other first, tone it down or make good reliable counters and see how just the one plays out. Then if that is not enough add the other.

You can't do that without significantly rebalancing damage. Which requires gear itemization balances, max stat balancing, etc. etc. etc.

why?

Because snares are defensive mechanism, not an offensive mechanism. If you nerf defense, you have to nerf offense. Especially because the classes that use snares defensively are using them specifically because of the high powered offense that already exists in the game.

I suppose you could also just buff all the classes that use snares defensively so that their damage is on par with Nightblades, StamDK's, and Stamplars - but then people will just start crying for damage nerfs.

Sure they are offensive, the first thing a ball group does right before ulti dumping is snare, root, and stun anyone in their path. Just because player A is using them defensively to kite doesn't mean that player B isn't using them offensively to keep the gap closed. Caltrops/gap closer, Caltrops/gap closer, seen things like that many times. It's used both ways depending on player prerogative and play style. They didn't adjust anything when they nerfed speed. This is more of an adjustment to that right there than anything else.

Royaji · February 2019

So you are saying that people are "snared all the time" because of a 200 cost ultimate that is only available to one class? Really?

Iskiab · February 2019

Royaji wrote: »

So you are saying that people are "snared all the time" because of a 200 cost ultimate that is only available to one class? Really?

Good point. If this game had normal targeting in the game where ranged could straff and run at full speed while still attacking, or crank up rotation speed and do the jump > twist > attack > twist > land and keep running at full speed I’d say melee being constantly snared would have a point.

As is what melee is asking for is to be able to catch people who’ve turned and are running away.

waitwhat · February 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works for large groups with the Rapid Maneuvers change, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

Agreed and I would add that a MAJOR problem with snares is the fact that so many of them stack, because they are of different magnitudes. We may want to get to a position where snares do not stack, even if the larger snares have to be toned down and the smaller snares have to be toned up a bit.

MalagenR · February 2019

waitwhat wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'd prefer a more comprehensive approach to dealing with snares that would almost certainly include adjustments to Permafrost.

Permafrost is a potent snare, certainly, but with ZOS trying very hard to make speed buffs shorter duration and changing how snare removal works for large groups with the Rapid Maneuvers change, Permafrost is far from 95% of the problems with snares in PVP.

Agreed and I would add that a MAJOR problem with snares is the fact that so many of them stack, because they are of different magnitudes. We may want to get to a position where snares do not stack, even if the larger snares have to be toned down and the smaller snares have to be toned up a bit.

Could totally agree with this. As for the gentleman who made the point about a 200 cost ultimate being the reason people are constantly snared.

That's silly, Frost WOE is what they use in combination with Permafrost to basically root you in place because the snares stack. A Frost WOE is not what needs to be nerfed clearly, it's the stacking of snares.

Liww · February 2019

I dont mind the damage, snare or stun, just remove major protection. It's far too good in all area's. it cc's, it deals damage and it gives a crazy buff, that's overperforming if you ask me. besides, everyone is already far too tanky imo.