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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Siroria + Spell Strat & Relequens + Advancing Yokeda Opinion
codestripper
✭✭✭✭✭
Just making this for community opinions...
Since everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]
Siroria + Spell Strat & Relequens + Advancing Yokeda Opinion 62 votes
Nerf Siroria & Relequens slightly to bring them more in line with other sets
8%
5 votes
Nerf all 4 sets slightly as they are all problematic
6%
4 votes
Buff all other sets to bring them in line with these combinations
19%
12 votes
Leave things how they are, they'll get nerfed next chapter when the new trial comes out...
11%
7 votes
Who cares about build diversity? There will always be a "Meta"
20%
13 votes
What....happened to my life?
8%
5 votes
other
25%
16 votes
0
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭otherOnly one truly Overpowered is Relenquen if you ask me, as it is a freaking proc. But as it is effective in just PvE mostly, no one bats an eye. The rest is fairly balanced and will come and go with the meta. With the Shadow change, I think TBS+Mother's Sorrow may beat Siroria+Spell Strategist on a Khajiit.4 -
OolongSnakeTea✭✭✭✭Nerf Siroria & Relequens slightly to bring them more in line with other setsI feel like there is no point in just figuring it out anymore, I just have 4 sets of gear for stam/magi classes I swap between my alts and get those big numbers on a dummy but have no sustain in PUG Content. HRM.
The bigger picture problem I have is that, it's always the newest chapter/DLC where these gears drop from, and its alway stupid strong till it's adjusted- which is a mixed bag. Having new gear, fun. Having the same gear across all my DPS? Not fun."I try to create sympathy for my characters, then turn the monsters loose."– Stephen King0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭otherThere is enough movement in trials to make siroria and rele perform less than other options. Though I believe rele is far more punishing than siroria. I also hate how Stam(not nbs) is carried by this set hard.
I honestly hate this proc meta on both sides. But it gets ZoS excited, have we gone a patch without a proc set? It's their game and their vision. So eh.-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭otherOnly one truly Overpowered is Relenquen if you ask me, as it is a freaking proc. But as it is effective in just PvE mostly, no one bats an eye. The rest is fairly balanced and will come and go with the meta. With the Shadow change, I think TBS+Mother's Sorrow may beat Siroria+Spell Strategist on a Khajiit.
I doubt there's any circumstance in which TBS makes its way back into the PvE meta. Simple math adding up and comparing the set bonuses will tell you that. TBS has to overcome the fact that 2 of its 4 bonuses do nothing for your DPS.
Compare TBS + MS + Thief/Shadow to MS + Siroria + Shadow. The latter is clearly stronger. Even MS + BSW + Shadow is probably stronger than any TBS setup.
Anyway, there's really nothing wrong with Siroria or Spell Strategist or Advancing Yokeda IMO. Relequen is probably too strong but it is a novel solution to keeping stam strong in PvE without making them OP in PvP (just like Endless Hail).
Advancing Yokeda is only *very slightly* stronger than Leviathan even with 100% uptime. It is clearly not too strong, requires rotational discipline to keep procced, and shouldn't really be a part of this discussion tbh.Edited by LiquidPony on February 6, 2019 5:51PM1 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭otherWhat the point of nerfing them when we all know ZOS will introduce even more OP trial sets with Elsweyr, rendering all the other sets obsolete?2 -
codestripper✭✭✭✭✭What....happened to my life?What the point of nerfing them when we all know ZOS will introduce even more OP trial sets with Elsweyr, rendering all the other sets obsolete?
There was an option for that in the choices actually ^.^Since everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Leave things how they are, they'll get nerfed next chapter when the new trial comes out...Although relequen's back is broken due to hard carrying stamina dps0 -
CleymenZero✭✭✭✭✭
✭Buff all other sets to bring them in line with these combinationscodestripper wrote: »Just making this for community opinions...
I would like for different classes+race combinations to have different bis sets.
StamDK used to have Morag Tong and sunderflame which made it unique, I'd like for all classes and even class+race to have "themed" Bis sets.
You play a magDK Breton? Go with full damage sets, magDK Dunmer? Go with Bright Throat and another damage sets.
All this would require DPS to remain similar across race + class + sets combination.1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭otherI would to see nerf to just relequen as nerf to any of these sets so just stamina dps could see any buff to be more on par with magica dps without this stupidly *** relequen set which annoys me the most as on stamina dps
EDIT: while others sets are fine as with siroria you ned to stay just in 1 place to have buff from this and spell strategist is just single targed at allEdited by Edziu on February 7, 2019 9:41AM0 -
sudaki_eso✭✭✭✭✭otherI dont think they need a nerf and i agree with @CleymenZero, a better class/race themed bis would be nice. But, nobody is forcing you guys to copy alcast builds. Yeah, max dps bla bla bla, but come on, if you dont do progress raids amost any other build will also work - even with 4-5k less dps. And there are unique builds out there that perfom quite well. At the end its up to you if you follow the meta or if you are going for something else. There are a lot of possibilities out there. dont restrict yourself by blindly follow the meta - especially if you dont like to use the same set for all your chars
PS4 EU - StamDK1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭otherIt really seems that asking for wholesale nerfs like this only comes from those that are out of touch.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭otherBiased poll is biased.
Thing is, for the first time in a long while, we see sets which are both situational and make player work for their effect. Relequen and SS are single target only, Relequen and Siroria have build up time, Siroria hinders mobility and forces you to choose your placement correctly, SS needs careful weaving... and AY isn't even stronger than some other sets, it's only preferable to Leviathan because of vMA bow, and even so it's not much stronger. On sDK, there will be Deadly Strikes next patch, we have Veiled Heritance already, stamplars still brandish their Ravager. I do approve of sets that require player to plan and show a bit of skill rather than just boost raw stats. It's the stat boosting sets that are biggest offenders as meta-chasing goes, because they boost everyone unconditionally.Edited by John_Falstaff on February 7, 2019 10:07AM0 -
codestripper✭✭✭✭✭What....happened to my life?Man, honestly the poll was meant to be a bit more light hearted than that. Personally I run a pet sorc. I don't use these sets because I personally don't have to. I guess I should have added more options? This isn't a biased poll by any means.Since everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭other@codestripper , didn't mean to offend or say it's intentionally biased, so not accusing or anything. Just it feels that the poll implies that they're overperforming by a large margin. But in reality, things are more complex than that. I won't take Relequen into Maelstrom or maybe even to vet Blackrose (I'll be losing stacks all the time - so I may put on something like VO + TFS, more so that tank won't be able to keep everything debuffed). If I don't have vMA bow, then Leviathan will turn out actually better than AY (because Leviathan gives mathematically almost identical stats, you don't have to keep up stacks, and unlike AY, there is a Leviathan bow in existence). I won't put on Spell Strategist into a trash fight where every squishy thing takes away my next four seconds of buff, leaving me worse than if I ran BSW/MS.
One issue with estimating performance of all those sets is that all comparisons are made either on a dummy or in stack-and-burn fights. And those particular sets perform very differently outside of optimal condition and with varying player skill.0 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭otherRele needs nerfing, I personally think Siroria is fine and gets better for more experienced players imo. In real fights and not dummy cheese.
If the same player ran each combo in a trial, I would expect them to have more Rele uptime than Siroria1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What....happened to my life?They’re all circumstancial, maybe except AY. For the magicka combo, you gotta be able to stand still long enough AND have the fight be single target. Relequen’s needs all those light attacks, and I know various bosses who jump cleanse debuffs or anything off them when they jump. AY seems to be the most stable tho.For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR0 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What....happened to my life?Rele needs nerfing, I personally think Siroria is fine and gets better for more experienced players imo. In real fights and not dummy cheese.
If the same player ran each combo in a trial, I would expect them to have more Rele uptime than Siroria
They did nerf Relequen tho. It was given a 1-sec cooldown between each stack, and it can no longer proc sets that are based on direct damage, i.e. Selene’s and Ravager.For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR1 -
codestripper✭✭✭✭✭What....happened to my life?John_Falstaff wrote: »@codestripper , didn't mean to offend or say it's intentionally biased, so not accusing or anything. Just it feels that the poll implies that they're overperforming by a large margin. But in reality, things are more complex than that. I won't take Relequen into Maelstrom or maybe even to vet Blackrose (I'll be losing stacks all the time - so I may put on something like VO + TFS, more so that tank won't be able to keep everything debuffed). If I don't have vMA bow, then Leviathan will turn out actually better than AY (because Leviathan gives mathematically almost identical stats, you don't have to keep up stacks, and unlike AY, there is a Leviathan bow in existence). I won't put on Spell Strategist into a trash fight where every squishy thing takes away my next four seconds of buff, leaving me worse than if I ran BSW/MS.
One issue with estimating performance of all those sets is that all comparisons are made either on a dummy or in stack-and-burn fights. And those particular sets perform very differently outside of optimal condition and with varying player skill.
I never meant to imply that they were OP for any scenario in fact, I never even said I had an opinion on them. All I know is that Siroria's and Relequens are constantly being used in all end game builds, as well as a requirement for mag and stam dps in my core groups for the most part. I also know that on the PTS right now Siroria's is even performing better than necropotence for pet sorcs, when this never used to be the case.
I was just curious on how the community viewed these sets, I personally don't find them very viable just because my playstyle is AOE based and movement based, so Siroria's would never work for me even in trials. Relequens seems like the only viable option for stamina DPS right now so I figured people would want other sets to be brought more in line. I don't really play stamina besides my stamsorc for vMA runs so I don't know as much.Since everyone seems to be doing this,
DPS Builds:
- Magicka Sorcerer (Pet) [Flawless Conqueror @ 565CP] - 582k
- Magicka Nightblade [Flawless Conqueror @ 780CP] - 575k
- Stamina Sorcerer [Flawless Conqueror @ 420CP] - 560k
- Magicka Classless [Flawless Conqueror @ 810CP] - 540k
- Magicka Templar [Stormproof] - 550k
- Magicka Warden [Stormproof] - 510k
- Stamina Templar [In Development]
- Stamina DK [In Development]
- Stamina NB [Under 50]0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭other@codestripper , well, different playstyle makes a perfect case for using something else; why they're part of meta builds is because they indeed, in static scenarios, show most damage. And when the competitive endgame scene is concerned, the speed with which you burn through 100mil health of a boss is all that matters since it directly affects the score. But it doesn't say anything about required player skill, or playstyle, or performance outside of single target fights, meta builds are usually not concerned with those trifles that make a DD's life so nicely diverse.
As for Relequen, then I see the only issue with it: it carries stamina. In other words, the set is not making stamina overperform. Instead, it's the only set that makes stamina (again, speaking of single target stack'n'burn) perform adequately. When we're saying "magicka parses same or almost the same as stamina in this patch", we're implying that stamina runs Relequen, there's simply no other choice for raw damage numbers. It is a bad situation, it dulls down meta stamina builds, but nerfing this one set will amount to nerfing stamina damage across the board below that of magicka (especially since stamina just got a solid punch in DW). I'd really like to have a lot of other sets performing on par with Relequen (and hopefully also requiring some skill to use, not to become just a carry sets), but that's all we have now.0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Siroria is fine, it's not that good on a lot of fights. I honestly think it's a bit overrated. When I was playing I never really used it because I didn't find it worth the time swapping sets back and forth. I'd prefer to run Master Architect or BSW.
Relequen should be nerfed but they should do something compensate for the loss of damage similar to the introduction of Relequen was to compensate for the loss of damage from the nerfs to NMG and Sunderflame. I much preferred the NMG/Sunderflame stam DPS setup, it took a little communication. I enjoyed going both full damage in groups where my DPS was in the higher end of the group, and buffing group DPS in groups where mine was on the lower end. If nothing else at least not everyone was running the exact same setup for every single fight.
BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0
