@AlienDiplomat‌ @MercyKilling‌
I have a Basic question to all of you that do not like or fear guild shops:
did you try it out ?

Yshaar wrote: »

@AlienDiplomat‌ @MercyKilling‌
I have a Basic question to all of you that do not like or fear guild shops:
did you try it out ?

I think I made it very clear that I don't want to join a guild for any reason, therefore, since guild shops are currently for guild members or their affiliates only...I have not. It's not that I don't like the idea of guild shops...I don't like the idea of GUILDS.

slander36 wrote: »

@MercyKilling‌ I like how you took my comments out of context in terms of playing how you want to play.

How am I taking "You are playing a social game anti-socially" out of context? Seems pretty cut and dry to me. You're backpedaling because I actually came back with a sound point or three.

slander36 wrote: »

Asking for an auction house is a way to do that. Demanding one be implemented because you know best is not.

Seems to me that my posts are supportive of an auction house being created. This doesn't make them demands. Just stating my opinions, which I do in all my posts.

slander36 wrote: »

I don't want an auction house, you do. I don't want to play "eBay Online," while you seem to.

Again, you are mistaken. I don't want to play "eBay Online" as you so eloquently put it...I want more convenience for all players, not just me. Why should anyone have to be railroaded into content or activities they simply do not enjoy just to be able to trade/sell to other players in a fair market scenario?

slander36 wrote: »

I don't enjoy seeing the developers have to generate huge amounts of inflation in the game each patch because gold farmers and botters have found ways to corner and flood the market to their advantage. I've experienced this time and time again and would like to at least try something new before demanding something I'm familiar with.

Remarkably, I actually agree with this part of your post. Yes, it's a new and novel idea...but it's lousily implemented...and don't you worry one bit, for botters and farmers are already cornering and flooding things to their advantage..so all too soon enough things will come crashing down. Maybe not in a week, or a month...or even three. But they will...it's only a matter of time.

Note that last part isn't a doom cry for the whole game...just the way player trading is currently being implemented.

All in all? Bottom line?

I support the idea of an auction house. Not DEMAND one, support the idea of one...and I agree to disagree with those that do not.


Edited to add question of another poster at the top.

fair market scenario

There's a major assumption in your belief @MercyKilling‌ about a general auction house, and that it is a "fair market."

It is not. In business terms, it is flooded with antitrust level price fixing via currency selling websites.

Those don't become billion dollar industries by playing fair, and casual honest players are influenced and impacted by their unfair play. At any given time, their is a finite amount of wealth in the game. When gold farmers and sellers are given free reign as they are with general or common auction houses, then they will control the vast majority of wealth in the game.

Well, I'm kind of on the other side of the fence now on this subject. I'm now "pro auction house". I made a post earlier about not having an auction house gave this game an old school MMO feel, but sometimes old school MMO systems are gone for a reason.

Last night I spent over an hour in Daggerfall listing items I have been saving since launch. Stacks of Ore, Alchemy supplies, Enchanting supplies, jutes, rawhides, etc. I was even listing my items a little cheaper than going rates for quick sales - Stack of Iron ore for 500G as en example.

Well finally someone bought my iron ore, but guess what? I got impatient because I actually wanted to play the game instead of spamming zone chat. After about an hour I sold all my mats to the vendor.

Here's the kicker. A stack of Iron sold for 400g I believe to the vendor. If I would of listed those stacks in one of my trading guild stores for say , 6g each or 600g per stack, after the guild store cut and listing fee I probably would of netted about 400g - all the while having to wait as someone sifted through all the guild store clutter and hopefully found my mats.

So yeah, Pro Auction house supporter here.

*Grabs Picket Sign and joins the crowd*

If no AH then a dedicated market zone. Spamming chat in cities is annoying and unproductive.

Remember classic Everquest, going to the tunnel in East Commons to buy and sell? (I think some servers used Greater Faydark but none I played). It wasn't a main city zone but had easy access to banking for everyone and it was the place to go to sell your loot and buy upgrades, or just general socialization. The zone was usually packed. It was the game's main social and commerce zone.

We need something like that in this game. These guild stores are a poor substitute for auction houses and market zones.They're a decent supplement to them maybe but not a substitution for them. In my opinion they're a poorly developed, short-sighted and community-splitting feature. Why community-splitting? They almost preclude buying and selling with your whole faction, unlike games like classic Everquest where a community-designated market zone had everyone buying and selling with the entire server. They encourage people to trade only with their guild and not their entire faction, and faction is what matters most in a faction-based PvP MMO.

For anyone who doesn't remember classic Everquest, just know that they eventually replaced the EC tunnel with a bazaar that was the forerunner to auction houses. Something like that could work here too - hire an NPC to sell your wares in a dedicated market zone and have a search feature so we don't have to browse every single NPC across multiple instances. (btw, I don't want the actual buying and selling done through the search system because that's the same as AH. I just want the search system to locate the NPC who has the item we want to buy, but we have to run to it and do all the clicking).

We need something in addition to these guild stores.

As soon as an AH were to go in prices would skyrocket on everything. Then what would happen is people arguing over farming the best spots and bosses while they're trying complete a quest or dungeon. And more then a few would not succeed because of the farmers standing there clobbering the boss as soon as someone triggered it or spawned it.
Whatever dropped would end up on the AH at a ridiculous price. Some one would want it but wouldn't be able to afford it. So they would go buy gold from some website, possibly the one the farmer works for. At the same time opening their computer and account up to be hacked.
Its happened in every game with a global auction ability with perhaps the exception of EvE and that is because they ruthlessly stamp out botters, sellers, and very extreme punishment for the buyers. That's the punishment ZOS needs against buyers. Negative gold balance.

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Just curious what people think of my regional (zone-based) market attunement suggestion I posted towards the bottom of page 6.

These people for the most part are not interested in compromise

as an example ..

RakeWorm wrote: »

This thread needs to die. Nothing more can be said about the topic that hasn't already been said. Since it would be such a major overhaul to the current system, it is unlikely the devs will implement it anytime soon if ever.

Guild Stores do a couple things - it keeps spammers or rather the trade activity of a spammer down since a Guild controls who is in or out. It promotes community interaction. Traders and crafters become better known by their specialty, something that gets lost in the sea of auction house competition.

I also think economies based on a global auction house are not as interesting. Not counting Eve's economy, where everything of player value is controlled by players.

There is perhaps a convenience price for not having one. I think I am ok with that too in ESO. Let this be something different, maybe "maybe" less accessible, more complex. There isn't a "book" on making online games that state it must be this way or that to be successful.

I don't mind the trade chat, I do agree a "trade" channel is appropriate. I suppose ZOS might expect the "trader guilds" to become that channel.

I am perfectly happy without an auction house.

RakeWorm wrote: »

This thread needs to die. Nothing more can be said about the topic that hasn't already been said. Since it would be such a major overhaul to the current system, it is unlikely the devs will implement it anytime soon if ever.

Basically many things would need to change. Crafting, items drops would both need to become rarer and much more difficult to achieve decent items. Many more drops would need to be BOP. This is the kind of thing that you need to do if you implement a hyper-efficient trading system in a game if you have any interest at all in keeping the game from becoming 100% about currency (which fuels the fires of the currency sellers, of course). So if you introduce a universal AH, you nerf a lot of other things so that the universal AH doesn't trivialize the game design and turn it into Wall Street Online in terms of currency acquisition and hoarding replacing every other aspect of the game.

Thing about EVE (which I have played on and off since 2004) is that it isn't a global market, it's a regional market, and that regional market is also divided into local markets based on security rating (with very different prices). It's a complex system based on how that game is designed. Even EVE's "global megaserver market" (Jita) is a regional/local one, albeit the biggest one by far, but one which still allows arbitrage between different market hubs (made some decent ISK myself that way over the years ).

In a game like this one, you could try to emulate that with regional trade hubs, which were only accessible within a region, and only pick-up-able at a certain place within the region, but in order to avoid the level cap city market "Jita" equivalent becoming a true megaserver hyper-efficient megamarket, you'd need to have some serious restrictions on it, otherwise all of the problems, in terms of game/loot/crafting design come back into the game at level cap. I suppose one way to do that would be to make any decent item (crafted or found) at level cap be BOP, and have the market be a materials only market.

maybe nobody wants your junk, did ya think about that?
maybe its all so common and easy to get that any attempt to sell it on a listing would be futile due to the 1000s of repeat identical listings each undercutting the last.

let go of your false pre conceived misconceptions about what you think needs to be and accept what there is.

whether its narcissism or egocentricity, just keep it to yourself.

A large yellow rectangle

zbcole wrote: »

fair market scenario

There's a major assumption in your belief @MercyKilling‌ about a general auction house, and that it is a "fair market."

It is not. In business terms, it is flooded with antitrust level price fixing via currency selling websites.

You've also been making a fair bit of assumptions here (about how economies work in game or in general). Don't mistake those assumptions as "fact". They are not.

Well, I'm kind of on the other side of the fence now on this subject. I'm now "pro auction house". I made a post earlier about not having an auction house gave this game an old school MMO feel, but sometimes old school MMO systems are gone for a reason.

Yes, nostalgia will do that. Most people see things as they wish to see it rather than how it really was. Those old school features are gone for good reason.

This thread needs to die. Nothing more can be said about the topic that hasn't already been said. Since it would be such a major overhaul to the current system, it is unlikely the devs will implement it anytime soon if ever.

I predicted in beta that these threads were going to be popping up often after launch until something changes. That's pretty much what is happening. You're just going to have to deal with it.



And Kiwi, your post is so full of irony it's remarkable.

Axzaril wrote: »

Keep the in guild trade option but do please add a general public AH.

As I posted in the poll thread


I think it was lotro? that had the option when you posted something on the global auction house to list it for your guild only. Something like that added would allow people who prefer it to stick with the small 'guild' market while allowing the rest of the people to list to the world as they see fit.

Only thing with that is make sure when you're searching you can filter it out, because several pages of stuff you can't buy is just annoying.



I think that would make both sides happy. Those who prefer the guild stores, can continue selling their items to guild members only, those who like an AH can sell to everyone.

Please give us an auction house...