Castagere wrote: »

So when you create a character you pick a class to play. One question I always wondered was why are all the classes magic based? Why was there never a stamina class created? Playing a Redguard and not really being good with your class skills seems just dumb. What's the point of Redguards even picking a class if you're only really good with stamina and weapon damage. Yeah, you can morph a couple of skills to stam but still why no real stamina based class?

There are currently more weapons for stamina then magicka. Passives go both way.

And to your question. A Stamina Class would be just another weapon tree. Becouse you know things that are not magickal you can do already in the game

Think of it more as specializations and magicka affinity.

If you played something like skyrim, sure you could go through the whole game just wailing your weapon, but it's pretty boring. That would be equal to a weapon skill line. Most people like to dabble in to spells to augment their physical prowess. Choosing a class is like choosing what schools of magic you like to specialize in.

They spoke about their choices for the new class Necromancer and how it's a combination of destruction, illusion and conjuration (focus on raising dead instead of daedra) magic.

Even in skyrim, I liked using flame spells in my left hand, conjuring atronachs to fight beside me and using alteration magic to bolster myself while being a dual wield orc running full force in to battle.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

So when you create a character you pick a class to play. One question I always wondered was why are all the classes magic based? Why was there never a stamina class created? Playing a Redguard and not really being good with your class skills seems just dumb. What's the point of Redguards even picking a class if you're only really good with stamina and weapon damage. Yeah, you can morph a couple of skills to stam but still why no real stamina based class?

Nightblade and DK got ton of class stamina morphs.

Nightblade does. DK only has a few.

Castagere wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

So when you create a character you pick a class to play. One question I always wondered was why are all the classes magic based? Why was there never a stamina class created? Playing a Redguard and not really being good with your class skills seems just dumb. What's the point of Redguards even picking a class if you're only really good with stamina and weapon damage. Yeah, you can morph a couple of skills to stam but still why no real stamina based class?

Nightblade and DK got ton of class stamina morphs.

Nightblade does. DK only has a few.

Is Nightblade all about sneaking though?

No Nightblade is also about blood and shadow skills. Lots of good stamina skills. However you need to level up the base skill that is Magicka then morph it to stamina when you are prompted to upgrade the skill

Warden, DK, NB, ... Sorc and Templar to an extend. I think that's all. Necromancers will probably throw corpse parts at enemies for disease damage.

If you are one of those people that want a stamina morph for every skill, I have to ask you the following. Where does the diversity among morphs go if you already know beforehand which one you are going to pick because it has your resource?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade Stam skills

Power extraction
Killers blade
Surprise attack
Leaching strikes
Relentless focus
Incapacitating strike

Dragon Knight Stam skills

Venomous claw
Noxious breath
Flames of Oblivion
Igneous weapons
Corrosive armor
Standard of might


Templar Stam skills

Biting jabs
Binding javelin
Power of the light
Repentance
Restoring focus
Empowering sweep

Sorcerer Stam skills

Hurricane
Dark deal
Critical surge
Bound armaments
Greater storm atronach

Warden Stam skills

Cutting dive
Subterranean assault
Bull netch
Bird of prey
Soothing spores
Green lotus
Wild guardian

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Please explain me how flames of oblivion and bird of prey are stamina abilities? 😅

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade Stam skills

Power extraction
Killers blade
Surprise attack
Leaching strikes
Relentless focus
Incapacitating strike

Dragon Knight Stam skills

Venomous claw
Noxious breath
Flames of Oblivion
Igneous weapons
Corrosive armor
Standard of might


Templar Stam skills

Biting jabs
Binding javelin
Power of the light
Repentance
Restoring focus
Empowering sweep

Sorcerer Stam skills

Hurricane
Dark deal
Critical surge
Bound armaments
Greater storm atronach

Warden Stam skills

Cutting dive
Subterranean assault
Bull netch
Bird of prey
Soothing spores
Green lotus
Wild guardian

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Please explain me how flames of oblivion and bird of prey are stamina abilities? 😅

Flames scales with whatever stat is higher and gives major savagery and costs practically no magic. Bird of prey gives major endurance, not to mention 11% more damage for just having the skill on your bar.

Still, they both are magic skills. It's like claiming shadow image is a stam skill or cleansing ritual just because stam characters use those skills.

The real reason behind the phenomena your describing is that the game was originally designed that way.

Keep in mind that the game of today, is not the game that was at launch.

Back then we had softcaps and no CP, and to to top it all up, most gear sets only gave a bonus at 2 pieces and then another with 5 pieces. Back then we ran around using 2 pieces from 6 different sets for maximum gear bonuses.

Another fun fact was that staff light and heavy attacks scaled from weapon damage and stamina. The skills for staffs used spell damage and magicka, but the attacks were - you know - weapon attacks... thus, weapon damage.

The game was totally different and everyone was a hybrid to some extend or another, just as every character in every other Elder Scroll game.

There are no weapons skills in Skyrim or Oblivion or Morrowind, nor Daggerfall or even Arena.

In every other Elder Scroll game, you have weapons for light and heavy attacks (except staffs, which are not classified as weapons at all, just sticks that lob spells powered by their internal charges), stamina for running and blocking (and bashing in Skyrim - not much in the way of roll dodges, sure there are dodges but they are not a baseline ability in those games), and magicka to do anything out of the ordinary. I.e to cast spells.

In ESO, however, you have green magic and blue magic. BOth can be used to do physically impossible, seemingly magical things. At launch, most of the class skills were powered by blue magic, and most of the weapon skills were powered by green magic. You also could use green magic to power physical things like running and blocking and bashing and dodging, but even so... it was still basically just another source of energy to do impossible things.

The idea was that you used your class skills for the core of your build and stacked spell damage and magicka to power them, and then you used weapon skills to cover up any gaps or weaknesses in your build, or to give you some extra utility that your class did not posses (Like the reflect from sword and board for those not playing a DK or Templar)

Due to soft caps, most people had max stamina and magicka anyway, and since weapons gave you a base competency in both spell damage and weapon damage, and set bonuses were lot less common an no CP to buff tehm, the stats we had were much more in line with one another and the differences in your green and blue magic potential was negligible.

It was not perfect, had really bad and broken elements in it, leading for example to the horror that was the vamp DK at launch, but it made sense it it's own way.

People, however, did not look at things that way. They did not want to be hybrids like you are in all otehr Elder SCroll games, they came to ESO with the mindset of spellcasters and warriors. Green magic, i.e. stamina was seen as physical prowess (even though stamina abilities enabled you to do physically impossible things even back then) and blue magic was though as magical spellcasting not fit on the bar of any real warrior.

Add to this the ever increasing power creep. Soft caps went the way of the dodo, and single stat stacking became a thing. Staff light and heavy attacks no longer scaled from weapon damage, and animation cancelling and weaving attacks became a core gameplay feature (really was a glitch in the system, but one they couldn't fix so it became a feature). CP were introduced and buffed stats and damage types even more, and made specializing that much more important. .More set bonuses and crazier sets were introduced and it become possible to stack stats to ungodly levels. (Which is one of the reasons why we are losing % based race stat buffs, since stats these days are utterly outside the boundaries of what is expected by the game.)

The end result, of those changes, was that no one in their right mind even tries to come up with a viable hybrid builds anymore.

The basic design, the foundation on which the game was build, still remains. That is the reason why most class skills are based on magicka. The community rejected the original design and started to cry for dedicated stamina and magicka abilities to go along with their dedicated stamina and magicka builds. And when the devs answered that call, and introduced more stamina skills for classes, the way they did it was by changing one of the morphs to a stamina version. That is why most class skills are still magicka at the base form, and stamina version only comes available when you can morph it. And often radically changing how the skill works. Along hte years, many have been forced to drop their favorite morph to the other, when the devs arbitrarily changed it to green magic from blue magic and making it non-viable for a build stacking blue magic stats.

Anyway, that is the real reason behind why things are the way they are. Not saying anything about whether it is good or bad, that's just is the way things are these days. Though the game designer in me, feels the need to note that the current system we got is convoluted and messy and really could use a solid once over. A redesign that reflects actual reality of how people are playing the game, but doubt well get one. Not worth the cost involved. Thus each update adds more band aid fixes and bolted on additions to the wobbly shaky foundations of a design that was abandoned long ago.