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ZOS has nerfed Altmer on PTS - Currently tied with Dunmer for lowest magicka DPS
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LightMaster7✭✭✭✭Also for that matter, what absolutely does not make any sense?
Why would Bretons be more magically inclined than Redguards exactly?
Are they not both of the human race?
It is totally ludicrous.0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@MLGProPlayer Thanks for the insight. Guess I'll be using a sustain set. Although my mDK is Imperial, im used to sh*tty sustain when using an "improper" race so im sure i'll be fine with my Altmer character.Edited by D0PAMINE on February 3, 2019 10:53PM0 -
firedrgn✭✭✭✭✭Going to hold off till i see. I would love a sustain nerrff if we get a damage buff. Of course this is selfish because i run a hea ey attack build.0
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Going to hold off till i see. I would love a sustain nerrff if we get a damage buff. Of course this is selfish because i run a hea ey attack build.
They have to buff damage if they want them to be competitive in endgame. Otherwise, they will need to use sustain food and recovery glyphs, which will put their DPS quite a ways behind Breton and Khajiit.0 -
vesselwiththepestle✭✭✭✭✭
✭With Altmer now the worst magical dps race, even behind
Nords
Imperials
Redguards
Bosmers
Argonian
Orsimer
I can finally be a valid Orc Magicka dps?1000+ CP
PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant
Give me my wings back!9 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vesselwiththepestle wrote: »With Altmer now the worst magical dps race, even behind
Nords
Imperials
Redguards
Bosmers
Argonian
Orsimer
I can finally be a valid Orc Magicka dps?
Those aren't magicka DPS races.4 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭LightMaster7 wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LightMaster7 wrote: »Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!
What a crock of ***.MLGProPlayer wrote: »LightMaster7 wrote: »And yet this stupid complaint does not address the load of other non-optimized races that play Mag Sorcerers. You complain they are "nerfing" Altmer MagSorcerer and you compare that with MagSorcerers from other races and Altmers are waaay ahead in dps and mag regeneration. For example comparing that to the Redguard MagSorcerer.
Again, I really wish that with these changes coming, they would allow some kind of CP skill to convert Stamina to Magicka automatcially or vice versa as passives.
You have to compare Altmer with other magicka races.
Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!
What a crock of ***.
I don't even really understand what you're trying to say here xD
Did you not see that it is a Redguard race that is represented in their new expansion as being a Necromancer? Do you know how little that makes sense since there is absolutely no optimization (unless you count the across the board spellcost reduction) coming with the new race changes? I mean like WTF? Wouldn't, as you say, since Almers and other races are more Magicka optimized, necromancer should be a different race than Redguard?
ZOS and their team makes absolutely no sense when they promote their product and things like the above makes me believe their marketting team does not understand the game at all.
I mean like seriously? Why don't they implement the changes the ACTUALLY PROMISED where they said races can play a host of different classes?
But what do we get? Further niche - isolation of races for a specific class type.
No I didn't see that - but now you mention it, I DID hear tell of it. (someone complaining about lore etc) So yeah, fair enough!0 -
Caligamy_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »LightMaster7 wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LightMaster7 wrote: »Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!
What a crock of ***.MLGProPlayer wrote: »LightMaster7 wrote: »And yet this stupid complaint does not address the load of other non-optimized races that play Mag Sorcerers. You complain they are "nerfing" Altmer MagSorcerer and you compare that with MagSorcerers from other races and Altmers are waaay ahead in dps and mag regeneration. For example comparing that to the Redguard MagSorcerer.
Again, I really wish that with these changes coming, they would allow some kind of CP skill to convert Stamina to Magicka automatcially or vice versa as passives.
You have to compare Altmer with other magicka races.
Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!
What a crock of ***.
I don't even really understand what you're trying to say here xD
Did you not see that it is a Redguard race that is represented in their new expansion as being a Necromancer? Do you know how little that makes sense since there is absolutely no optimization (unless you count the across the board spellcost reduction) coming with the new race changes? I mean like WTF? Wouldn't, as you say, since Almers and other races are more Magicka optimized, necromancer should be a different race than Redguard?
ZOS and their team makes absolutely no sense when they promote their product and things like the above makes me believe their marketting team does not understand the game at all.
I mean like seriously? Why don't they implement the changes the ACTUALLY PROMISED where they said races can play a host of different classes?
But what do we get? Further niche - isolation of races for a specific class type.
No I didn't see that - but now you mention it, I DID hear tell of it. (someone complaining about lore etc) So yeah, fair enough!
It's not really accurate.. the Necromancer (storywise) is the Breton hero who was turned by the Daedra during the Imperial City invasion cinema. The only redguard Necromancer depicted was just a lone picture.Breton hero depicted in trailers
Redguard advertisement pic not associated with story at all
But people ran with omfg redguard necromancer!?!? peas and carrots!Edited by Caligamy_ESO on February 3, 2019 11:37PMlove is love3 -
LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭Love the drama. Maybe just do away with the racials and replace them with only flavour, like the argonian swimming bonus they already have, nords get drunk from any drink or potion they use, wood elves get a bonus to stealing success chance etc..etc..
It's obviously hard enough to balance class/guild/weapon skills, let alone the added complication of various racial passives.Edited by LordTareq on February 3, 2019 11:54PM7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Love the drama. Maybe just do away with the racials and replace them with only flavour, like the argonian swimming bonus they already have, nord take more alcoholic drinks to get drunk, wood elves a bonus to stealing success chance etc..etc..
It's obviously hard enough to balance class/guild/weapon skills, let alone the added complication of various racial passives.
That would have been the best solution and is something I have been advocating for as well.
But the problem we have here is that ZOS actually got balance right on the PTS. Breton, Khajiit, and Altmer were all within 1% DPS of each other. Now they are going to completely change some of the passives for literally no reason but to ruin their own balance.7 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭LightMaster7 wrote: »Are they not both of the human race?
No Bretons are half elves.LightMaster7 wrote: »Why would Bretons be more magically inclined than Redguards exactly?
Because they are descended from different peoples, and evolved largely in different climates. This is the same reason the Nords aren't adept at magic. This would be like saying us and Neanderthals are both humans because we possess a roughly similar appearance. Any race can use magic, or weild a sword. However, some can do it easier, and better because they, as a people, are naturally inclined to certian things. This is the way Elder Scrolls has always been.Edited by Ajax_22 on February 4, 2019 12:23AM11 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭LightMaster7 wrote: »Are they not both of the human race?
No Bretons are half elves.LightMaster7 wrote: »Why would Bretons be more magically inclined than Redguards exactly?
Because they are descended from different peoples, and evolved largely in different climates. This is the same reason the Nords aren't adept at magic. This would be like saying us and Neanderthals are both humans because we possess a roughly similar appearance. Any race can use magic, or weild a sword. However, some can do it easier, and better because they, as a people, are naturally inclined to certian things. This is the way Elder Scrolls has always been.
Bretons are still considered to be humans, they just have very diluted elven blood.6 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Did I travel back in time to when racial changes were first posted but before PTS had them and people tested them. Because this topics feels like I traveled back to that time.
. 3 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzzyStardust wrote: »LightMaster7 wrote: »Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!
What a crock of ***.MLGProPlayer wrote: »LightMaster7 wrote: »And yet this stupid complaint does not address the load of other non-optimized races that play Mag Sorcerers. You complain they are "nerfing" Altmer MagSorcerer and you compare that with MagSorcerers from other races and Altmers are waaay ahead in dps and mag regeneration. For example comparing that to the Redguard MagSorcerer.
Again, I really wish that with these changes coming, they would allow some kind of CP skill to convert Stamina to Magicka automatcially or vice versa as passives.
You have to compare Altmer with other magicka races.
Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!
What a crock of ***.
I don't even really understand what you're trying to say here xD
Considering how many stars are there in that post, that must be Redguard Stargazer from Craglorn.
@Rake Ahahaha
2 -
fastolfv_ESO✭✭✭✭✭highelf needed to die already, they have been the one and only mag race for 5 years its about time they got brought down to everyone elses level2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fastolfv_ESO wrote: »highelf needed to die already, they have been the one and only mag race for 5 years its about time they got brought down to everyone elses level
Dunmer has been the endgame meta race for most of that period.
And they are not at "everyone else's level". They will be well below everyone else after these changes go live (they are already behind Breton and Khajiit, even before the nerfs).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 4, 2019 1:11AM4 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Did I miss something?
People claim that Dunmer has better dps than Altmer, but that is confusing to me since Altmer have more max magicka, the same amount of spell power but unlike Dunmer have sustain on top. That sustain will be traded for "something else" soon but that still leaves more max magicka. I doubt ZOS will buff Dunmer all the way to 2k magicka.
And that Bretons have better dps is only due to their sustain. There comes a point at which more sustain doesn't equal more dps on a Breton, but it does on an Altmer. Sets like Worm cult and synergies like orbs and shards will benefit Altmer more than Bretons, possibly to the point where Altmer have better dps, right?
ZOS said they'll nerf the sustain and replace it with something else. They said they want Altmer to be damage oriented. Are we sure that this will be a nerf to their DPS? I think ZOS wouldn't nerf their dps if they want to emphasize their damage. The problem mentioned about healers not gaining enough from the new racials to make up for losing the old racials is way more concerning to me than the DPS.
What I don't like is that Khajiit are the superior magicka dps race (in pve) when Khajiit are not known to be very magical (apart from maybe the Alfiq). In that sense, yes, Redguards, Orcs, Nords, Imperials, Bosmer should get their magicka buffed as well, since lore doesn't seem to play a part in that at all.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Did I miss something?
People claim that Dunmer has better dps than Altmer, but that is confusing to me since Altmer have more max magicka, the same amount of spell power but unlike Dunmer have sustain on top. That sustain will be traded for "something else" soon but that still leaves more max magicka. I doubt ZOS will buff Dunmer all the way to 2k magicka.
And that Bretons have better dps is only due to their sustain. There comes a point at which more sustain doesn't equal more dps on a Breton, but it does on an Altmer. Sets like Worm cult and synergies like orbs and shards will benefit Altmer more than Bretons, possibly to the point where Altmer have better dps, right?
ZOS said they'll nerf the sustain and replace it with something else. They said they want Altmer to be damage oriented. Are we sure that this will be a nerf to their DPS? I think ZOS wouldn't nerf their dps if they want to emphasize their damage. The problem mentioned about healers not gaining enough from the new racials to make up for losing the old racials is way more concerning to me than the DPS.
What I don't like is that Khajiit are the superior magicka dps race (in pve) when Khajiit are not known to be very magical (apart from maybe the Alfiq). In that sense, yes, Redguards, Orcs, Nords, Imperials, Bosmer should get their magicka buffed as well, since lore doesn't seem to play a part in that at all.
Dunmer don't do more damage. They are last place, but they aren't really a magicka race this patch (they were designed to be a hybrid race). Both Breton and Khajiit deal more damage than Altmer.
Breton deal more damage for the simple reason that they can use a Berserker glyph (which gives 452 spell damage) while Altmer need to use a Magicka Recovery glyph. That means Breton have +452 SD while Altmer only have +258 SD.
Khajiit deal more damage since +8% crit is generally more impactful than +258 spell damage (especially on templar and NB).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 4, 2019 1:23AM0 -
burglar✭✭✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »As an aside to pure balance reasons: I really don't think it's cool to put best stats on any 'niche' (animal) race.
Not only because it's not fair to have them unbalanced anyway, but some types of people like/love/prefer to play animals or whatever, some people strictly find that creepy, some people are in between.
I know it is kind of a side topic and not important 'as such' to end game - but it is still a thing to consider.
You did it to Argonians before and now you do it to Khajiit - it is not hard to connect the dots here. I feel like they do this to see loads of tails running around so it looks like Elsweyr was such a big success lookit all the cats!
Theres a conspiracy that the ('niche' ["animal"]) cats and lizards are going to take over.
Are you sure you're not roleplaying an altmer?Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade1 -
dcam86b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Khajit get all the buffs because ZoS needs to sell more Elsweyr pre orders duh6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »Khajit get all the buffs because ZoS needs to sell more Elsweyr pre orders duh
Which is sadly, probably true.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »Khajit get all the buffs because ZoS needs to sell more Elsweyr pre orders duh
It's so clear. I mean almost every race, especially previous BiS ones were nerfed in terms of max resource and khajiit which didn't have any resource bonus before receives solid 750/750/750 while maintaining crit chance now also for magicka, where it is more important imo. And now devs wants to add some solid all-around passive sustain too, i guess it will end up at 150/150/150 making cats a master race almost for everything.
6 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Altmer: Goal was for Bretons to be sustain oriented and Spell Recharge was making High Elf both damage and sustain. ZOS wants this to still be a damage race and will look to reform Spell Recharge to provide something other than main stat return.
I know not many people read the Combat & Character Mechanics board, so I'm going to share it here to get exposure.
Why is this a problem? Altmer is currently behind Khajiit and Breton in terms of DPS on the PTS. ZOS wants to knock them down even further.
Here is DPS testing of all the classes on PTS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Another one (less testing, but from a top player):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE
The current meta appears to be Khajiit >/= Breton > Altmer. ZOS actually plans to buff Khajiit in the next patch.
Altmer has the lowest damage and mediocre sustain. 575 magicka return every 6 seconds is the same as 192 magicka recovery, which is hardly anything. The 258 spell damage is beaten by the +8% crit for Khajiit and the Breton's Berserker glyph.
ZOS is just looking at these values on paper while COMPLETELY ignoring actual testing. Please take your feedback to the PTS and C&CM forums.
This is disappointing to me. I was REALLY looking forward to using that spell recharge. This change was going to make it possible for me to buff my stamina more. Now I'm going to have to worry about magicka sustain while suffering from lack of stamina and stamina regen due to the CC madness.0 -
Castagere✭✭✭✭✭
✭Love the drama. Maybe just do away with the racials and replace them with only flavour, like the argonian swimming bonus they already have, nords get drunk from any drink or potion they use, wood elves get a bonus to stealing success chance etc..etc..
It's obviously hard enough to balance class/guild/weapon skills, let alone the added complication of various racial passives.
The racial passives were a big mistake and they know it. They should do away with them. Their claim of play your way as total BS.3 -
Steelshiv✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Love the drama. Maybe just do away with the racials and replace them with only flavour, like the argonian swimming bonus they already have, nord take more alcoholic drinks to get drunk, wood elves a bonus to stealing success chance etc..etc..
It's obviously hard enough to balance class/guild/weapon skills, let alone the added complication of various racial passives.
That would have been the best solution and is something I have been advocating for as well.
But the problem we have here is that ZOS actually got balance right on the PTS. Breton, Khajiit, and Altmer were all within 1% DPS of each other. Now they are going to completely change some of the passives for literally no reason but to ruin their own balance.
They did something right the first time and it confuses them. Maybe they like pissing their paying customers off. *End Salt Dump*0 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Upcoming change sounds like a good opportunity to make Altmer have the highest damage, Breton have the best sustain, and Khajiit have the highest potential with good RNG, but lowest potential with bad RNG.3 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭ProbablePaul wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »As an aside to pure balance reasons: I really don't think it's cool to put best stats on any 'niche' (animal) race.
Not only because it's not fair to have them unbalanced anyway, but some types of people like/love/prefer to play animals or whatever, some people strictly find that creepy, some people are in between.
I know it is kind of a side topic and not important 'as such' to end game - but it is still a thing to consider.
You did it to Argonians before and now you do it to Khajiit - it is not hard to connect the dots here. I feel like they do this to see loads of tails running around so it looks like Elsweyr was such a big success lookit all the cats!
Theres a conspiracy that the ('niche' ["animal"]) cats and lizards are going to take over.
Are you sure you're not roleplaying an altmer?
No, maybe I am - but I do know for certain, that I have been legit playing an altmer since nearly 5 years; so I think it’s quite a chunk of time, to be honest.
To mess around with that kind of investment of time and money, is simply not appreciated.
Only speaking for myself on this - because only I can decide the value of that amount of time for myself.
You know?6
