It's insane. I really cannot believe it. IDK what they are thinking.

Been a High Elf Templar _HEALER_ (I deconned my DPS gear after the whole This is my House catastrophe) through it all and I am not giving up my character. She would just not be the same - as any other being. I love playing her now and I would HATE it if she were someone else. (and I don't even roleplay - but I've had her nearly 5 years! That's longer than most peoples' relationships!)

As an aside to pure balance reasons: I really don't think it's cool to put best stats on any 'niche' (animal) race.

Not only because it's not fair to have them unbalanced anyway, but some types of people like/love/prefer to play animals or whatever, some people strictly find that creepy, some people are in between.

I know it is kind of a side topic and not important 'as such' to end game - but it is still a thing to consider.

You did it to Argonians before and now you do it to Khajiit - it is not hard to connect the dots here. I feel like they do this to see loads of tails running around so it looks like Elsweyr was such a big success lookit all the cats!

D0PAMINE wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Altmer: Goal was for Bretons to be sustain oriented and Spell Recharge was making High Elf both damage and sustain. ZOS wants this to still be a damage race and will look to reform Spell Recharge to provide something other than main stat return.

I know not many people read the Combat & Character Mechanics board, so I'm going to share it here to get exposure.

Why is this a problem? Altmer is currently behind Khajiit and Breton in terms of DPS on the PTS. ZOS wants to knock them down even further.

Here is DPS testing of all the classes on PTS:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1

Another one (less testing, but from a top player):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE

The current meta appears to be Khajiit >/= Breton > Altmer. ZOS actually plans to buff Khajiit in the next patch.

Altmer has the lowest damage and mediocre sustain. 575 magicka return every 6 seconds is the same as 192 magicka recovery, which is hardly anything. The 258 spell damage is beaten by the +8% crit for Khajiit and the Breton's Berserker glyph.

ZOS is just looking at these values on paper while COMPLETELY ignoring actual testing. Please take your feedback to the PTS and C&CM forums.

Have people been submitting feedback via the actual numbers that you know of?

All of this has been posted on the forums. Liko (one of the top DDs in the game) posted that video. This was discussed on the class rep discords too. It all just flew over ZOS' head though.

If this is the start of a new balance regime, we may yet grow to miss Wrobel...

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Altmer: Goal was for Bretons to be sustain oriented and Spell Recharge was making High Elf both damage and sustain. ZOS wants this to still be a damage race and will look to reform Spell Recharge to provide something other than main stat return.

I know not many people read the Combat & Character Mechanics board, so I'm going to share it here to get exposure.

Why is this a problem? Altmer is currently behind Khajiit and Breton in terms of DPS on the PTS. ZOS wants to knock them down even further.

Here is DPS testing of all the classes on PTS:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1

Another one (less testing, but from a top player):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE

The current meta appears to be Khajiit >/= Breton > Altmer. ZOS actually plans to buff Khajiit in the next patch.

Altmer has the lowest damage and mediocre sustain. 575 magicka return every 6 seconds is the same as 192 magicka recovery, which is hardly anything. The 258 spell damage is beaten by the +8% crit for Khajiit and the Breton's Berserker glyph.

ZOS is just looking at these values on paper while COMPLETELY ignoring actual testing. Please take your feedback to the PTS and C&CM forums.

Have people been submitting feedback via the actual numbers that you know of?

All of this has been posted on the forums. Liko (one of the top DDs in the game) posted that video. This was discussed on the class rep discords too. It all just flew over ZOS' head though.

If this is the start of a new balance regime, we may yet grow to miss Wrobel...

This doesnt show Altmers as lowest dps, it was just one attempt, when you take a couple of attempts into consideration the top dps is Khajit with very slightly more dps than altmer but less sustain, followed by dark elf followed by breton.

While i dont support altmer nerf and would rather get a dark elf buff Altmers were in no means lowerst dps, in fact they were the best option for a magicka dps overall because the extra sustain was much better than an unnoticable dps difference on khajits

Did you read the thread or read the video description? They are averages across multiple attempts (susmitds testing used 20 attempts per race, per class). Breton averaged higher DPS in every class. Khajiit beat them as magplar and tied them as magblade.

binho wrote: »

Wasn't High Elf magicka meta for the last 5 years?!?
Time for a change maybe?

It was actually Dunmer for most of that period.

Commancho wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

575 magicka return every 6 seconds is the same as 192 magicka recovery

It's actually equal to 95 magicka recovery.

Magicka recovery = magicka returned every 2 seconds. 575/3 = 192.

IzzyStardust wrote: »

binho wrote: »

Wasn't High Elf magicka meta for the last 5 years?!?
Time for a change maybe?

Mostly DUNMER actually.

Also: Okay - play same char for 5 years (invest time, even money etc) and now change them utterly so they are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT because ZOS?



@MLGProPlayer Also I LOVE - and I mean ADORE my character.

I will quit healing raids (which basically means I would likely quit the game - as I Heal Raids and also do some other stuff if I have time) before I'll change her into something else.

Don't get me wrong. I love the aesthetic of Altmer way more than Breton (Breton are pale as ***). But if it means not being competitive in endgame, I'll have no choice but to change. At least Breton is still a humanoid race. But if they overbuff Khajiit to the point that not even Breton is competitive anymore, I don't know what I'll do. Maybe switch to stam.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

binho wrote: »

Wasn't High Elf magicka meta for the last 5 years?!?
Time for a change maybe?

Mostly DUNMER actually.

Also: Okay - play same char for 5 years (invest time, even money etc) and now change them utterly so they are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT because ZOS?



@MLGProPlayer Also I LOVE - and I mean ADORE my character.

I will quit healing raids (which basically means I would likely quit the game - as I Heal Raids and also do some other stuff if I have time) before I'll change her into something else.

Don't get me wrong. I love the aesthetic of Altmer way more than Breton (Breton are pale as ***). But if it means not being competitive in endgame, I'll have no choice but to change. At least Breton is still a humanoid race. But if they overbuff Khajiit to the point that not even Breton is competitive anymore, I don't know what I'll do. Maybe switch to stam.

Yeah - our points of just 'calling it' are just different That's all. I'm hoping as a healer I can still just do the job - if I can then IDC. It's a bit different than DPS - if you know what I mean, I can heavy attack more than you. (and often do; IA etc)

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

binho wrote: »

Wasn't High Elf magicka meta for the last 5 years?!?
Time for a change maybe?

It was actually Dunmer for most of that period.

Probably because Dunmer*magDK = fire*fire.

Problem is that on pts parses things looks idiotic close for relevant races. Its no room for buffs or nerfs.
Less than 1K on an 60K raid parse.

Now add the following.
An high sustain race is easier to play and will do way better in dungeons and make an better healer with high magic regen.
proc stamina is better for tanks.

zaria wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

binho wrote: »

Wasn't High Elf magicka meta for the last 5 years?!?
Time for a change maybe?

It was actually Dunmer for most of that period.

Probably because Dunmer*magDK = fire*fire.

Problem is that on pts parses things looks idiotic close for relevant races. Its no room for buffs or nerfs.
Less than 1K on an 60K raid parse.

Now add the following.
An high sustain race is easier to play and will do way better in dungeons and make an better healer with high magic regen.
proc stamina is better for tanks.

This is the problem. Balance was great on this current iteration of PTS. Khajiit, Breton, and Almter were all within 1k of each other (with Altmer being at the bottom for most classes).

By removing Altmer sustain and replacing it with who knows what (likely something useless), Altmer will be forced into using BOTH magicka recovery food AND magicka recovery glyphs, which will completely tank their DPS.

I'm not sure why ZOS is touching ANYTHING with these 3 races.

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

It's even worse for anyone who plays High Elf healer in PvE, since spell damage is fairly useless for healing in most situations, so gutting Altmer sustain is killing it entirely as an option for healing.

That's my entire gripe. Before - when I made her - in March 2014 - High Elves and Templar were nice together - and I kept her all this time through so many changes and nerfs - and this is just a step too far.

And yet this stupid complaint does not address the load of other non-optimized races that play Mag Sorcerers. You complain they are "nerfing" Altmer MagSorcerer and you compare that with MagSorcerers from other races and Altmers are waaay ahead in dps and mag regeneration. For example comparing that to the Redguard MagSorcerer.

Again, I really wish that with these changes coming, they would allow some kind of CP skill to convert Stamina to Magicka automatcially or vice versa as passives.

LightMaster7 wrote: »

And yet this stupid complaint does not address the load of other non-optimized races that play Mag Sorcerers. You complain they are "nerfing" Altmer MagSorcerer and you compare that with MagSorcerers from other races and Altmers are waaay ahead in dps and mag regeneration. For example comparing that to the Redguard MagSorcerer.

Again, I really wish that with these changes coming, they would allow some kind of CP skill to convert Stamina to Magicka automatcially or vice versa as passives.

You have to compare Altmer with other magicka races.

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!

What a crock of ***.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

LightMaster7 wrote: »

And yet this stupid complaint does not address the load of other non-optimized races that play Mag Sorcerers. You complain they are "nerfing" Altmer MagSorcerer and you compare that with MagSorcerers from other races and Altmers are waaay ahead in dps and mag regeneration. For example comparing that to the Redguard MagSorcerer.

Again, I really wish that with these changes coming, they would allow some kind of CP skill to convert Stamina to Magicka automatcially or vice versa as passives.

You have to compare Altmer with other magicka races.

Oh ***! And why can't Redguards or other races be a magicka race? It's stupid. I mean they *** have a Redguard as a necromancer!

What a crock of ***.

I don't even really understand what you're trying to say here xD