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Should ZOS start balancing skills seperately for PvP and PvE?

Noisivid
Noisivid
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In other words the same skill would function one way in PvE and another way in PvP...

well, whadda ya think? and why if you feel like expounding.
Vogon Poet Laureate

Should ZOS start balancing skills seperately for PvP and PvE? 131 votes

no
12%
SolarikenJarndycekypranb14_ESOSkayaqBoloBoffinElsonsoManwithBeard9Peekachu99susmitdsBerenhirjoaaocaamposSynodicOracleHamish999frostz417TaunkyCommancho 16 votes
yes
78%
TabbycattheyanceyVecroXundiinlinktwodragonb14_ESOKhivas_CarrickNemesis7884AimorasigsergvKhipuHurbsterPathremilafoSilverwillowfeyiiMashilleNoisividmakerofthingsphairdonThevampirenight 103 votes
other
4%
zariaidkbooksmcreadburglarChaos2088Siohwenoeht 6 votes
skooma!!!!!
4%
xMovingTargetRainchaser oXI_Viper_IXoTheInfernalRageBlackStormXKhajiitFelix 6 votes
  • Noisivid
    Noisivid
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    yes
    I just think that the gameplay in PvP and PvE is different enough that what works well in one works abysmally in the other. This leads to skills getting nerfs and serious imbalance issues. rant rant rant
    Vogon Poet Laureate
  • BoloBoffin
    BoloBoffin
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    no
    Skills should be the same in and out of PvP. I think there are other ways to find balance in both areas. I think the same skill acting differently under different circumstances should lead to too much player confusion.

    I'm glad to see someone thinking outside the current box to see if there's a way to help the game be better. Do you have any examples of how a skill might act differently?
    Now let's dig on the Dirt Mound... (never gonna get it, never gonna get it, NEEEEver gonna get it, never gonna it)
  • idk
    idk
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    other
    Yes and now. Via battle spirit they can have that handle much of the changes for PvP separately from Pve. If a morph behaves very differently in PvE vs PvP then that could confuse players. How Zos managed the shield nerf is a great example of this.

    In other words, I think most of us understand we fight differently in the two environments and disagree with how Zos has managed combat, but I think the above question is oversimplified.

    Further, Zos is doing a major review of combat in this game to finally develop a vision for combat in this game which should come into play later this year, probably the chapter. With that we can all hope they decide a better approach.
    Edited by idk on February 3, 2019 8:21PM
  • Siohwenoeht
    Siohwenoeht
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    other
    It would need to be a massive overhaul, and really could only function well if they also added a build swap feature so you could easily switch without respecing. I don't see it happening due to ESO using respec as the one of the most massive gold sinks and the sheer amount of rework to game systems.
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • Facefister
    Facefister
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    yes
    Lock PvP sets into PvP and PvE sets into PvE.
  • Noisivid
    Noisivid
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    yes
    BoloBoffin wrote: »
    Skills should be the same in and out of PvP. I think there are other ways to find balance in both areas. I think the same skill acting differently under different circumstances should lead to too much player confusion.

    I'm glad to see someone thinking outside the current box to see if there's a way to help the game be better. Do you have any examples of how a skill might act differently?

    this thread was prompted by the current thread on the time stop changes on the PTS. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457012/incoming-time-stop-change/p1

    it seems to boil down to the snares being hard to counter in PvP and essential in PvE. ZOSs solution is to increase the cost to 8100 magicka, which really limits the skills usefullness across the board. It seems like tweaking the snare applied to players would be the simpler solution. Of course that would probably add more complexity on the server calculations...

    The same basic discussion happens pretty much anytime ZOS makes a significant change to skills or passives.

    I honestly don't know what a good solution would be. :/
    Vogon Poet Laureate
  • Steelshiv
    Steelshiv
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    yes
    Yes. PLEASE. Balancing PvP and PvE separately would do more for balance over time than the upcoming racial balance changes will.

    Also, skooma.
    Edited by Steelshiv on February 3, 2019 9:00PM
  • IzzyStardust
    IzzyStardust
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    yes
    Noisivid wrote: »
    BoloBoffin wrote: »
    Skills should be the same in and out of PvP. I think there are other ways to find balance in both areas. I think the same skill acting differently under different circumstances should lead to too much player confusion.

    I'm glad to see someone thinking outside the current box to see if there's a way to help the game be better. Do you have any examples of how a skill might act differently?

    this thread was prompted by the current thread on the time stop changes on the PTS. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457012/incoming-time-stop-change/p1

    it seems to boil down to the snares being hard to counter in PvP and essential in PvE. ZOSs solution is to increase the cost to 8100 magicka, which really limits the skills usefullness across the board. It seems like tweaking the snare applied to players would be the simpler solution. Of course that would probably add more complexity on the server calculations...

    The same basic discussion happens pretty much anytime ZOS makes a significant change to skills or passives.

    I honestly don't know what a good solution would be. :/

    tbh for PVPers to just get off the nerf everything that I couldn't 4v 20 though wagon.

    I HONESTLY do not know why I care so much as I am my self barely ever using that skill - but it is the POINT OF THE THING that upsets me greatly. :(

    I despise it when this happens.
  • SynodicOracle
    SynodicOracle
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    no
    I think it would be very hard for them to implement, requiring a lot of reworking on how the coding of skills work in separate areas.

    This would likely mean they would make so many bad changes and I can already foresee the sea of threads on the forums about how the changes ruined ESO etc....

    It would be nice, but I fear ZOS would execute it poorly, and it would further divide PvE and PvP players. I don't think it can be done in a way that pleases the majority.
    @SynodicOracle
    "I'm a God, how can you kill a God? What a grand and intoxicating innocence"

    I'm a PvE Healer but mostly play solo questing these days. Lore enthusiast and long-term Elder Scrolls Fan, dating back to Morrowind, but my favourite is Oblivion.

    GUILD: The Thalmor Embassy PC EU
  • macsmooth
    macsmooth
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    yes
    Battlespirit doubles skill cost and proc set times for gcd and gives half extra stats for each stat

    Skills would cost a little more so you would have to manage skill usage more ie timestop

    Proc sets would be doubled gcd ie Earthgore

    Pve stays intact
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    yes
    It really isn't that hard, or hard at all really, to balance things for PvE and then for PvP separately. The real issue is the cost *** you'd either make one team work twice as hard or hire two teams.
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • KhajiitFelix
    KhajiitFelix
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    skooma!!!!!
    Player tier list
    S: Roleplayers
    A: Crafters
    B: Questers
    C: -
    D: Min maxers
    E: Fake tanks and healers
    F: PvPeasants
  • zaria
    zaria
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    other
    To some degree.
    They have battle spirit, this can be expanded.
    Also sets like damage to dungeon monsters or the battleground set who do 10% of target total health damage on heavy attacks.
    Later one is a bit OP in trials :)

    This and skills can be modified, against other players / pvp= cyrodil, BG and duels.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Commancho
    Commancho
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    no
    No they shouldnt... but we should be able to remove glyphs and get all upgrades back when decontructing items we have created or upgraded. It would be much simpler and easy to implement without all uneccesary mess.
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    yes
    I've always been a proponent of balancing the two separately. PvP and PvE are already two separate games. If you doubt that, simply think about how heavy armor, crits, crowd control, snipe work in each of the two environments.

    For how many years has ZOS clung to the concept of balancing them together? And how has that worked out? Clearly it is time to try a different approach.

    The current approach not only doesn't work but fosters harsh feelings and resentment between the PvP and PvE communities as the two communities blame each other for 'balancing' changes that may or may not be needed by both communities.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • lokulin
    lokulin
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    yes
    We already use mostly different CP allocations, sets, skills, attributes and gear for PvP so I don't see why there is this obsession with balancing sets and skills across both PvE and PvP. Give players two loadouts for free, plus the option to buy extra loadout slots. Each loadout allows you to allocate CP, Skills, Attributes, gear. Sure having loadouts, skills and attributes change between PvP and PvE might seem like you are breaking some kind of immersion or making your character two (or more) characters but the reality is that the way AI and real people work are vastly different. You can explain away loadouts the same way you can explain away wayshrines. They are a game mechanic that allow for greater immersion, fun and more seamless gameplay.

    Of course another option would be to make mobs much more like real players. The simplest option would be to allow mobs to do critical damage so impen gear would finally make sense in PvE. Imagine the mobs in Moonhunter keep doing critical bleed damage! Perhaps then they could also improve the NPC agro and pathfinding algorithms including bosses that kite and use line of sight.
    I've hidden your signature.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    yes
    It's something they should have started from day 1.
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
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    yes
    Please.... I had a hard time believing it wasn't that way already when I started playing....
  • Draxys
    Draxys
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    Facefister wrote: »
    Lock PvP sets into PvP and PvE sets into PvE.

    Terrible idea that doesn’t even address the problem. Various sets are useful in both, and there’s far more to balance than sets.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • remilafo
    remilafo
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    yes
    Mostly Yes..

    option #1 balance the skils seperately

    or

    option 2, balance the game around pvp only since you can scale npc's health, damage, defence etc. infinetly.
  • Facefister
    Facefister
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    yes
    Draxys wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    Lock PvP sets into PvP and PvE sets into PvE.

    Terrible idea that doesn’t even address the problem. Various sets are useful in both, and there’s far more to balance than sets.
    It's a start, PvP and PvE will survive just fine with locked sets. You can do fine tuning without interfering with the other mode.
  • TheRealPotoroo
    TheRealPotoroo
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    yes
    PVE and PVP are two different games and they should be separated completely: attributes, skills, inventory, CP, the lot. ZOS's first priority should be a dressing room function that allows players to allocate discrete PVE and PVP setups which they can switch between with one click at no cost. ZOS should have done this five years ago.
    PC NA, PC EU

    "Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_6850523
  • Ohtimbar
    Ohtimbar
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    yes
    Yes. They're completely separate and distinct modes. So distinct that skill in one does not translate to the other and can actually be detrimental when first learning the other. In my opinion, its only unified to save effort, not for valid gameplay reasons. ZOS knows it sucks, but they choose to focus on other things and ignore the criticisms.
    forever stuck in combat
  • russelmmendoza
    russelmmendoza
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    yes
    But, thats not the case, is it?

    Oh well.
  • xMovingTarget
    xMovingTarget
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    skooma!!!!!
    It could be so "easy"

    I just leave this here as something to think about. From another game that balances skills for pve and pvp differently

    Black_Desert_Online_BDO_Archer_Skill_Build_Guide_Radiant_Explosion.jpg

    Bound in that tooltip Is like a knock down CC.
    Edited by xMovingTarget on February 4, 2019 1:58AM
  • jpo
    jpo
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    yes
    Balance for PvP hurts PvE and roleplaying in every mmorpg.
  • burglar
    burglar
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    other
    These kinds of posts do nothing but point the finger at the PvP community, unnecessarily blaming them for your perceived hardships. It just divides the community as a whole. Why not look at the new circumstances and re-calibrate your approach and strategy to fit the new changes? Or is it that re-calibration that you feel is unfair? Both sides of the community need to rethink strategy after balancing changes, and neither one is more important than the other. From the perspective of anyone who does both PvE and PvP, these requests are really selfish; if these requests were ever granted, people that play all content would have to spend twice as many resources to build each character. I guess that's easy to overlook if you only play PvP, or PvE.
    Ohtimbar wrote: »
    Yes. They're completely separate and distinct modes. So distinct that skill in one does not translate to the other and can actually be detrimental when first learning the other. In my opinion, its only unified to save effort, not for valid gameplay reasons. ZOS knows it sucks, but they choose to focus on other things and ignore the criticisms.
    The Elder Scrolls Online is a massively multiplayer online spin-off of the Elder Scrolls franchise. It takes place in the year 2E 582, making it the earliest-set game in the series.

    With the fall of the Reman Dynasty at the end of the First Era, the Dragonfires go out without an emperor to light them. In the absence of a clear leader, three warring factions—the Aldmeri Dominion, the Daggerfall Covenant, and the Ebonheart Pact—use the opportunity to expand their territory, at the expense of their rivals and the residents of the Imperial province of Cyrodiil. The Tharn family (ancestors of the infamous Jagar Tharn) forges an alliance with Mannimarco to assist the depleted and surrounded Imperial Army by reanimating their dead. Secretly, Mannimarco betrays his Imperial allies by assisting the Daedric Prince Molag Bal in invading Tamriel in an attempt to incorporate it into his realm. The player character is one of Molag Bal's victims, who has had his or her soul stolen by the Daedric Prince.
    The Interregnum was a period in Tamriel's history between the end of the Second Empire and the proclamation of the Third Empire by Tiber Septim. It began when the last of the Akaviri Potentates, Savirien-Chorak, and all of his heirs were murdered in 2E 430.[1] The collapse of central authority led to five centuries of bickering between racial alliances, small kingdoms, and petty states.[2] During this time, the Empire of Cyrodiil existed by name only, and was confined to the region of Cyrodiil alone.

    The Interregnum was marked by a general decline in living standards across Tamriel. A note in one tale from the era goes so far as to call the prevailing attitude one of "anti-intellectualism",[3] another source talks of the "dark and cumulative losses" of the period,[4] and a third describes the period as "days and nights of blood and venom".[5] A further sign of intellectual decline was the transformation of the Dwemer in popular culture from a mysterious and unfathomable race to a mere vehicle for light comedies and romances.[3][6] Additionally, roads and cities fell into ruin and were not repaired until centuries later.[2] Even the famed Amulet of Kings was lost.[7]

    Some regions and organizations found the period full of opportunities. The services of the Dark Brotherhood were much in demand and the society filled its coffers with gold.[1] High Rock, an area with a history of factionalism was more able to deal with the collapse of central power and fared much better than the rest of Tamriel, lapsing back into its usual structure of kingdoms and city states without difficulty.[8][9]

    However in 2E 541, an invasion of Reachmen under the command of Durcorach swept through the kingdoms of High Rock, ultimately resulting in the signing of the first Daggerfall Covenant. United, the new Covenant was strong enough to repulse and destroy Durcorach's Horde, while a strategic alliance with the Kingdom of Sentinel and the promise to restore Orsinium as sovereign territory cemented the political longevity of the Covenant under the tactful leadership of High King Emeric.[10] Meanwhile, a similar threat appeared to northeastern Tamriel, as an Akaviri invasion in 2E 572 under the command of Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal ravaged the lands of Eastern Skyrim and Morrowind. After a long-fought battle and the aid of Argonian reinforcements, the Ebonheart Pact was formed, creating an alliance between Eastern Skyrim, four of the five Dunmeri Great Houses and the Argonian tribes of northern Black Marsh.[11] Despite the tensions between the races, the threat of the now corrupt Imperial rule in Cyrodiil maintained the necessity of the Pact to secure their homelands from foreign occupation. In Alinor, the well-traveled High Elf Ayrenn emerged to the throne of the Summerset Isles in 2E 580.[12] Conveniently, the nearby provinces of Valenwood and Elsweyr sought allies against an increasingly chaotic rule in Cyrodiil, thus joining Queen Ayrenn in the first Aldmeri Dominion.

    In the heartlands of Cyrodiil, Varen Aquilarios of Chorrol led an uprising against the Emperor Leovic, grandson of Durcorach, after Daedric worship was legalized in the Empire. Leovic was subsequently executed by Varen himself, who then set out on a quest with four companions to recover the lost Amulet of Kings.[13][14] Secretly, Varen was fearful that his lack of being Dragonborn would ultimately lead to his demise as he thought he was an imposter for not being one of the Dragon Blood. The Altmer Sorcerer Mannimarco persuaded Varen that he knew how to perform a ritual with the newly found Amulet of Kings which he assured would give Varen his much sought-after title of Dragonborn. However, Varen was unknowingly tricked into breaking Alessia's divine covenant with Akatosh, and thereby destroying the ancient barrier between Nirn and Oblivion in an event known as the Soulburst. With Varen now missing, Mannimarco began ushering in his true master, Molag Bal, who planned to draw all of Tamriel into Coldharbour in an event that the Elder Scrolls call the Planemeld.[15] Clivia Tharn, in Varen's absence, became Empress Regent and allied with Mannimarco, but her father Abnur despised the sorcerer, leading to a split in the family and Abnur's subsequent capture. With this, the Empire crumbled into a state of disarray as corruption ran rampant and Molag Bal's Dark Anchors began to appear in the skies across Tamriel. The Imperial City was captured by Molag Bal's forces, and Clivia Tharn went missing.[16] In 2E 582, with Imperial Power crumbling, the Daggerfall Covenant, Aldmeri Dominion and Ebonheart Pact vied for control of the White-Gold Tower in the Three Banners War, in an effort to destroy the faltering Empire and restore peace and prosperity to Tamriel.[15]

    During the entirety of Interregnum, petty warlords had attempted to seize control of Cyrodiil's capital and to reestablish the Empire. None of them lasted for long,[17] until, in the year 2E 852 the king of Falkreath, Cuhlecain, sought to proclaim himself "Emperor of All Cyrodiil". Two years later, with the help of his general Talos who reclaimed the Amulet of Kings, he took the Imperial City from the battlemages of the Eastern Heartland, but was assassinated shortly after. It is uncertain whether or not Cuhlecain was ever crowned Emperor.[18] The Third Empire was certainly established when Talos took the name Tiber Septim and was crowned in his stead in 2E 854, signaling the end of the Interregnum,[2] although the rest of Tamriel did not submit to his rule until the conclusion of the Tiber Wars in 2E 896.[5]
    Edited by burglar on February 4, 2019 2:08AM
    Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
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    yes
    Er.... but isn't that just the "lore" that ZOS invented for this game? I mean, I've never read that anywhere else. So yes, you're citing it as lore and justification for pvp in this game.... but where is it from?
  • TheBonesXXX
    TheBonesXXX
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    They need to balance the game character to character, then mobs around that.
  • lokulin
    lokulin
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    yes
    They need to balance the game character to character, then mobs around that.

    Perhaps with better mob AI this would work but I reckon the immediate result of this would be quite boring PvE combat.
    I've hidden your signature.
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