Why don't furniture prices reflect the cost of crafting?

Saucy_Jack · January 2019

So as a trader (in 5 trading guilds) and also a master crafter (know all traits, all slots, all furniture plans, almost every style) I spend much of my time perusing the traders around Tamriel. I also have an addon (MM - all haill MM) that tells me the crafting cost of any craftable items I mouse over in the guild stores based on the current MM prices of the crafting mats needed to make it.

Now before I continue some of you might say "oh well your MM prices aren't accurate" but the sales data for mats is especially robust considering the amounts that are moved each day. I'm not questioning my mats prices.

But I HAVE noticed that for MOST furniture pieces, the MM prices are generally BELOW the crafting cost - and that's just referring to the mats needed; the craft cost doesn't take into account the time needed to level the profession(s) needed or the learning of the plan itself.

So why is furniture crafting in general a losing proposition in terms of money-making ability? Why don't furniture prices reflect the costs of making the pieces?

KhajiitFelix · January 2019

Royaji · January 2019

Because housing is a niche aspect of gameplay and people who are heavily interested in it are more likely to be after blueprints than furnishings themselves. And those who are not that invested just furnish 2-3 houses and call it a day, they are not goint to repeatedly buy new items. There is no strong market for furniture.

driosketch · January 2019

Two things. First raw mats have hundreds of craftable possibilities, but furniture items are locked into one choice. They can't even be deconed to recover mats.
Their only market are those looking for that particular item, and who can't craft it themselves.

Second, furnishings never bind. They are also a pain to store. As such, there is a large second-hand market supply out there where players will price things to move and recover some costs rather than try to profit.

Watchdog · January 2019

I am able to collect most of the crafting materials myself while doing other things, such as questing, lowering the final costs of the crafted items.

Saucy_Jack · January 2019

Watchdog wrote: »

I am able to collect most of the crafting materials myself while doing other things, such as questing, lowering the final costs of the crafted items.

Sure but I mean, if you're collecting the mats yourself, why not just sell the mats since overall they'll sell for more than any furniture you make with them?

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

Watchdog wrote: »

I am able to collect most of the crafting materials myself while doing other things, such as questing, lowering the final costs of the crafted items.

OP means that why make furniture and sell it cheaper then mats, you may just sell mats then.

From my experience, i sell only that furniture which i don't need anymore or which didn't fit like i expected while crafring it. So I just sell it with price from 1st cheap page ttc, otherwise it will just take precious bank space..

And there is no logic on prices, there are tons of let's say tempering alloy with 4.5k+ price tag and not in major trading cities. I doubt that will ever sell, but there are hilarious amount of alloys in backwater traders for 4.7, 5k+ etc.. i don't know maybe only some newbie may buy it occasionally.

Varana · January 2019

Are you sure those furnishings are crafted? A lot of stuff also drops in the world, and is then sold at the trader.

Tan9oSuccka · January 2019

This is a good question. I’ve wondered the same thing.

I think part of it is finding something to sell that people want and other sellers won’t undercut the living daylights out of. (Because they don’t have it)

Selling mats in big guilds is terrible. In one of them, the undercutting was so bad....I was selling at 35% less than my other guilds.

Fiktius · January 2019

ESO markets always have been interesting due how often item pricing does not make much sense and there are several different things which have impact on prices:

1) How common the item is:
If the crafted item furniture blueprint is something common which is not being sold for high price and drop rate is decent, everyone can buy it and start crafting them.

2) Where to get materials:
If you manage to gather materials by harvesting by yourself, you get advantage compared to those who just buy their items from guild stores with regular MM/ATT/TTC prices. And this leads to third part:

3) Competition with guild store pricing:
More common and easily crafted item is, more likely there will be higher competition of item pricing.
People are eager to undercut each others in the same guild, but that's not the only area where undercutting is happening. Traders also sometimes compare neighbor guild store's listings and undercut them by listing items with lower price to the guild right next to other store. It goes even more wider Tamriel wide when TTC is being used. TTC users can see what's the current minimum pricing of item X and traders can list their items lower than current minimum is.
Then when store is being scanned again, TTC min drops over and over again. That sometimes leads to the point where a crafter which bought crafting materials through guild store would make negative profit if they would like to sell items with current trading addon average prices.

yooqi · January 2019

driosketch wrote: »

Two things. First raw mats have hundreds of craftable possibilities, but furniture items are locked into one choice. They can't even be deconed to recover mats.
Their only market are those looking for that particular item, and who can't craft it themselves.

Second, furnishings never bind. They are also a pain to store. As such, there is a large second-hand market supply out there where players will price things to move and recover some costs rather than try to profit.

I'm a guilty of the second one. Sometimes I craft or buy something and it just doesn't work the way I expected. So I might price it at TTC minimum just to sell it faster.

Reivax · January 2019

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

So why is furniture crafting in general a losing proposition in terms of money-making ability? Why don't furniture prices reflect the costs of making the pieces?

I think simple answer is most people don't realize the cost of the materials.
Also the furniture is purely aesthetic, so it is worth very little to some types of players. They feel they need to get some, or to furnish a home they finally bought, but they aren't going to spend 25,000 on a lamp, even if it is purple recipe with an expensive bill of materials.

max_only · February 2019

The only furniture I’ve purchased is a masterwork bathtub and extra luxury vendor items after the fact. Turns out most housing enthusiasts are already crafters.

commdt · February 2019

It is a free market, not some directive economy, so players themselfs decided so. Even more, ZOS actualyy tries to bring furniture market to life by making recipes rare. And you now what? It works. You wont have a coin on trash recipes everyone knows but on rare ones price can go times the craft cost. So either you learned the wrong ones or you just was not very attentive

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

I really have no idea.

Summerset furniture is the most perplexing. Most people sell the furniture at less than the cost of Culanda Lacquer all the time. It's not like the blueprints are cheap either and people can craft their own furniture (and even then, you still need Culanda). A lot of Summerset and Vvardenfell furniture plans still sell for 50k+.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

commdt wrote: »

It is a free market, not some directive economy, so players themselfs decided so. Even more, ZOS actualyy tries to bring furniture market to life by making recipes rare. And you now what? It works. You wont have a coin on trash recipes everyone knows but on rare ones price can go times the craft cost. So either you learned the wrong ones or you just was not very attentive

What's confusing is that sellers are actively trying to lose money in this free market.

And selling furniture is rarely profitable. The time to sell furniture is extremely slow, and due to undercutters, you typically have to sell below your crafting cost. I don't sell furniture. I also stopped crafting it since it's cheaper to just buy the pieces I need (due to many people selling below craft cost) than to buy an overpriced blueprint and make it myself.

I really don't get why the plans sell for so much when the individual furniture pieces sell for almost nothing. It's almost always cheaper to buy furniture pieces individually than to buy the plan and craft it yourself (it only makes sense to buy the plan when you need dozens of a single furniture piece and you can't buy them at or below the craft cost).

Uviryth · February 2019

Because everyone crafts, but only a fraction of the playerbase actually cares about housing.

I only have one House, and the only things standing there are a cat and a Target Skeleten.

Housing in ESO is just so bad, you have to have a good stomach to actually use it.

commdt · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

What's confusing is that sellers are actively trying to lose money in this free market.

I always laugh when I see low level resources for sale for 4gp or soul gems for less than 30gp. You can make money by buying those and just sell to some vendor. But then again it is a free market