All class skills should have stamina&magicka morph.

russelmmendoza · January 2019

Dont care if its magicka or stamina.
All class skills should go both ways.
Even weapon skills should have magicka & stamina morph.
Dont care if starts as magicka or stamina base.

This should help with balance?

El_Borracho · January 2019

Can't wait to see a magsorc doing some steel tornado action. Would we have to call it "Wooden Tornado?"

Holycannoli · January 2019

Weapon morphs I disagree. Why would destruction staff use stamina and 2-handed magicka?

Class skills though I totally agree and have been saying it since 2014. They don't care though. Sad but true.

ccmedaddy · January 2019

So stamsorcs and magsorcs would have exactly the same bar setup, except their skills cost different resources?

Is that really what we want?

WrathOfInnos · January 2019

But those skills are the worst, because you don’t get to choose between interesting morphs.

Colecovision · January 2019

5 or 6 total is enough. Don't flip out all the mag users when there already isn't enough room for all the great stam skills.

Stamblade is perfect in terms of morphs. Zos please just copy stamblade.

Stam sorc is so close to being crazy fun, but somehow it's just boring in the end.

AlnilamE · January 2019

The problem with that is that it would kill your options. You either pick Magicka or Stamina and that pre-determines which morph of a skill you will have to pick.

Tapio75 · January 2019

One does not learn magick by working out and being a muscular buffhead. One needs time to read books and learn magick. Reading books in a study does not help with stamina, it makes one have maybe less stamina. This is why many fantasy mages and sort tend to be skinny thin robe wearers who need warriors to protect them. Even one of the most powerful ones like Raistlin Majere, only had so much to do before he run out of spells. Gandalf in the other hand was demigod. We are basically just human or beast races.

Some forms of magick benefit from stamina. It is good we have few stamina morphs but we do not need more.

Magick however can be used to manipulate weapons so in weapon skill lines, some visually magickal abilities could have magicka morphs, but then again i myself find it nice that i need to sacrifice one or another to use certain skills as main skills and others as weaker utility.

russelmmendoza · January 2019

Lol, imagine,

Fire tornado, ice tornado, lightning torado?

Rendering fire/ice/lightning slash?

Dizzying fire/ice/lightning swing?

Imagine elemental weapons?

Tapio75 · January 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Lol, imagine,

Fire tornado, ice tornado, lightning torado?

Rendering fire/ice/lightning slash?

Dizzying fire/ice/lightning swing?

Imagine elemental weapons?

Some shamanistic NPC enemies seem to have dizzying swing with lightning, which makes sense considering the effect it has. Elemental lightning empowers the weapon before swing resulting in flying enemy with stunned efect on the ground.

Then again one NB skill which magicka morph makes it ranged.. The one doing more damage to low health enemies would benefit from more magical sound effects and projectile. Or at least some channel effect from the dagger at hand.

russelmmendoza · January 2019

Exactly, so much fun when attacking with elemental attributes.

Add the elemental fx and you got a winning battlescene.

Kulvar · February 2019

Tapio75 wrote: »

One does not learn magick by working out and being a muscular buffhead. One needs time to read books and learn magick. Reading books in a study does not help with stamina, it makes one have maybe less stamina. This is why many fantasy mages and sort tend to be skinny thin robe wearers who need warriors to protect them. Even one of the most powerful ones like Raistlin Majere, only had so much to do before he run out of spells. Gandalf in the other hand was demigod. We are basically just human or beast races.

Some forms of magick benefit from stamina. It is good we have few stamina morphs but we do not need more.

Magick however can be used to manipulate weapons so in weapon skill lines, some visually magickal abilities could have magicka morphs, but then again i myself find it nice that i need to sacrifice one or another to use certain skills as main skills and others as weaker utility.

Not all mages are scholars, there are battlemage who don't invent spells or seek to understand how to rewrite reality. They learn spells as part of their military job and that's it. Breton are famous for being great battlemages. (They're more fit than Altmer.)

In game, we're much closer to a battlemage than a scholar during quests (for magicka based characters).
Would be cool to have a "spellsword" weapon skill line with 1H sword and an fire/shock/frost enhancement in the second weapon slot to offer magicka-based melee abilities.

Radiance · February 2019

Some skill morphs are split between Roles rather than Attribute but I will agree there are many skills that need revamped. Some are never used for anything more than temporary an EXP booster to unlock the next skill on the Tree before you have maxed that Skill line... Too many nerfs leaves little room for variety. I don't expect any of this to be addressed anytime soon, now the main focus will be on Necromancy...

Banana · February 2019

This should happen

TheShadowScout · February 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

All class skills should go both ways.

I mean, -stamina- characters are -supposed- to be the warriors of the world. Why in the divines name should they get as many and as effective spells (and lets face it, that is what all those flashy class abilities really are) as the mages of the world (aka, magica characters)?

That was the general idea anyhow... magica characters get staves and skirts, and hold all those nifty class spells in their well tained minds, ready to unleash balls of fire from their eyes and bolts of lighting from their ar... uhm... staff...
...while stamina characters on the other hand get sturdy armor of some kind, and big weapons in their beefy arms, using their glistening muscles to swing those at their enemies to cleave skulls and sever limbs and all that fun stuff!

You know, stamina characters are supposed to be like Siegfried, Artos, Conan, Aragorn, Grey Mouser, Drizzt, Brienne, etc.; while magica characters are supposed to be like Circe, Merlin, Gandalf, Raistlin, Elminster, Dumbledore, etc.

...

And why would we as players even really want this?
Why would we -want- to have something that makes stamina and magica charecers have -less- difference?
I mean, what would be the use of splitting the whole system in the first place? Just have one stat, call it "competence", and derive -everything- from that one. But that would not really be much fun, would it now? And neither would be giving everyone every option in equal terms.

The differences make the game more fun! The more options you have to make your character different from all the other characters, the more interesting the game gets!
As such I really want to have the skills different!

...

...that being said... it would be nice to have a wider -selection- on both sides. I wish they would add more guild skill lines like "psijic", different ones, both for magica and for stamina characters! Or possibly even some sort of "specializations" that allow people to take up a fourth class skill line, choose -one- from a selection... things where people get tidiversify further, andf -those- options then could have different choices, some more stamina-heavy (and would we not like a "monk" or "sword-singer" guild skill line for our stamina characters someday?), and others more magica heavy...

bluebird · February 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

So stamsorcs and magsorcs would have exactly the same bar setup, except their skills cost different resources?

Is that really what we want?

They'd still use different mages/fighters guild skill and ultimate... So, just for the sake of argument, why is it better if stamina specs of five classes use virtually the same bar setup, than if stamina and magicka specs of one class had virtually the same bar setup?

Also, OP didn't say the morphs had to do the same thing, just that base class skills should have stamina and magicka options (and they often do, with different effects than simply changing the resource needed).

That said, weapons skills should not be affected, and not every single class spell has to have a viable stamina/magicka morph (some can have mag dps and healer morphs, or stam dps and tank morphs and so on), but I do agree with the OP's general sentiment that some class skills could use an update to get more variety and usefulness in more builds.

Garreth17 · February 2019

Some classes definitely lack stamina morphs, like dragonknight class abilities are almost all only magicka

Nemesis7884 · February 2019

my issue is more that all stamina classes kinda play very samey and use the same skills...i wish they made them more distinct through mroe skill interaction / synergy etc... yeah sure people will immediatly scream about balance again...but if you play one stamina class youve basically played all - except maybe nb... why not have sorc have more synergy to 2h whereas warden has more synergy with dual wield whereas templar has more synergy with x etc.... you also got fire/lightning/ice focus on the magicka classes...

I really hope the necro will get an interesting stam variant...playing a werewolf death knight sounds kinda appealing ^^

Nemesis7884 · February 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Dont care if its magicka or stamina.
All class skills should go both ways.
Even weapon skills should have magicka & stamina morph.
Dont care if starts as magicka or stamina base.

This should help with balance?

i think this would make balance really hard unless you basically equalize everything with stamina and magicka with no difference between them...but if they are excactly the same, why even have to...might as well then have only one skill/ressource and weapon skins

Kali_Despoine · February 2019

El_Borracho wrote: »

Can't wait to see a magsorc doing some steel tornado action. Would we have to call it "Wooden Tornado?"

with a mag twist it would have an AoE uplift knock back. Defensive move med-low cost minimal damage. No stun or root

geonsocal · February 2019

one of my biggest gripes in the game is that for a dragonknight there's not a stamina morph for the rock throwing move...

it's bad enough the only real range attack a dk has does such low damage...it is fun to knock folks down though...

Mayrael · February 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Dont care if its magicka or stamina.
All class skills should go both ways.
Even weapon skills should have magicka & stamina morph.
Dont care if starts as magicka or stamina base.

This should help with balance?

No it would cause only more imbalance because stamina has access to one of the most potent defensive mechanics - roll dodge and block, add on top of that shields and heals like BoL and there is no reason to play magicka.

Uryel · February 2019

Agree with OP, there should always be a choice on class skills. Weapon skills, not so much, but we need a melee magicka weapon. Maybe one handed and spell, like in old solo Elder Scrolls games ?

But the real problem is that class skills are mostly useless if you play a stamina character. And depending on what ressource you use most, your weapon choice is constraint. If you play magicka, you want to use a staff, period.

So... The real solution would actually be that ALL skills would use a SINGLE ressource. Let's call it "energy" for the sake of argumentation. This way, every skill becomes viable, every weapon becames a valid choice for everyone, and we get to chose a morph based solely on its effects, not on its ressource. Also, every skill becomes a valid option for every build.

Implementing "energy" instead of magicka and stamina wouldn't even be that hard. It's a simple matter of replacing every occurence of the words "magicka" and "stamina" by "energy" in the code. Any text editor can do that in a minute (allright, I am oversimplifying a bit, there). Of course, then there is the issue of balancing changes across the zillion sets... And some sets would become redundants. So it's not just a clock and go thing, but it's possible.

I'd go even further : keep the 3 stats, making them "Health", "Energy" and "Efficiency". Health is health, no change. Energy is how high your energy is and how it regenerates. Efficiency is how efficient your skills are, be it at healing, damaging or whatever. This way we decouple the silly "the more ressource you haven, the stronger you are" thing, and get to chose if we would rather have higher sustain or higher power per hit. Or a mix of both. It's a trade off between casting more often and having more meaningful casts.

I'm not so sure about the 3 stats things, but I'm pretty sure replacing both magicka and stamina ressources by a single one would make for way more options and interesting builds. Surely way more than what the Maths Team is doing right now with the racial changes.

Uryel · February 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

No it would cause only more imbalance because stamina has access to one of the most potent defensive mechanics - roll dodge and block, add on top of that shields and heals like BoL and there is no reason to play magicka.

Yeah, no reason at all, besides the fact that 75% of the class skills are useless if you play stamina. Also, magicka users also have access to dodge roll and block, you know ? And if you're using an ice staff, blocking costs magicka, so you even get to chose which ressource you want to use for blocking. Stamina users don't.

Nerouyn · February 2019

I strongly dislike this idea.

I understand it, but I dislike it.

ESO's current combat system has devolved into something which is actually batshit crazy if you think about it. And this idea qualifies as chasing it further down the rabbit hole.

Magic is magic.

But not in ESO.

Some magic abilities, i.e. stamina morphs of magic abilities, are absolutely magic but consume stamina.

It seems like the original terrible idea was to force everyone to use both magic and physical weapons. Some people enjoy both. Some separately. Some together. Some only like one or the other. Not catering to all of these different tastes is one of the game's biggest flaws.

The devs bizarrely seemed not to know this and upon eventually realizing it, slapped on stamina morphs as a band-aid. While current ESO fans have probably accepted it, if you were to ask non-ESO fans what they think of it more than a few would probably reference the aforementioned bat poo.

If you really hate magic and want to ignore all class abilities and just use weapons, i.e. a typical "warrior" class, ironically the best class in ESO for that is sorcerer. Because their passives give a straight discount rather than refunding resources on class ability use and because if you can bear to use just one class ability, they can convert that useless magicka into healing and stamina.

And if you really like magic you're pretty screwed because most of the game's magic is locked away behind other classes and there's only one damage skill line.

Unfortunately I can't recommend a better idea except for spellcrafting and the equivalent for weapons. By effectively doing away with classes those could have solved this problem neatly.

Nerouyn · February 2019

Uryel wrote: »

Yeah, no reason at all, besides the fact that 75% of the class skills are useless if you play stamina. Also, magicka users also have access to dodge roll and block, you know ? And if you're using an ice staff, blocking costs magicka, so you even get to chose which ressource you want to use for blocking. Stamina users don't.

Stamina users can also equip an ice staff and put points into that passive.

So obviously they can do this.

And frankly as a magicka user this is currently one of the most annoying features of the game.

I'm a warden. I get several class based bonuses for equipping an ice staff instead of fire or lighting. Bonus ice damage. Plus ice elemental blockade immobilizes chilled enemies and winter's revenge is quite chilly.

If I choose to max the Tri Focus staff passive I get useful bonuses for ice and lightning but then can't heavy attack with an ice staff without drawing generally unwanted aggro.

Tedious.

It's nice that they're trying to accommodate magicka based tanking but I wouldn't call this idea a winner.