So will swords become BiS next patch?

Bigevilpeter · January 2019

So in the U21 sword passive will get a buff from 2% to 3% pure damage per sword so a pure 6% damage increase is better or 10% crit chance? Also Axes have been gutted for some reason and now they are useless in PvE and maces have always been useless.

So can anyone test or do calculations to see if that is true?

Trancestor · January 2019

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

Bigevilpeter · January 2019

Trancestor wrote: »

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

2%, 1% per sword so overall a buff from 4% to 6% pure damage to everything, crit only increased the change to crit by 10%

Sharee · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

2%, 1% per sword so overall a buff from 4% to 6% pure damage to everything, crit only increased the change to crit by 10%

The current value is 2.5% per sword. So dual wielding swords, you go from 5% to 6%.

Bigevilpeter · January 2019

Sharee wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

2%, 1% per sword so overall a buff from 4% to 6% pure damage to everything, crit only increased the change to crit by 10%

The current value is 2.5% per sword. So dual wielding swords, you go from 5% to 6%.

ah ok my bad, i guess its not too much of a buff then

Vapirko · January 2019

Sharee wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

2%, 1% per sword so overall a buff from 4% to 6% pure damage to everything, crit only increased the change to crit by 10%

The current value is 2.5% per sword. So dual wielding swords, you go from 5% to 6%.

But only if you duel wield. One sword was being rounded down to 2% while two swords produced the proper combined 5% or so im told. So it’s a 1% damage buff no matter what, not sure how much of a buff you can really call that.

Bigevilpeter · January 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

2%, 1% per sword so overall a buff from 4% to 6% pure damage to everything, crit only increased the change to crit by 10%

The current value is 2.5% per sword. So dual wielding swords, you go from 5% to 6%.

But only if you duel wield. One sword was being rounded down to 2% while two swords produced the proper combined 5% or so im told. So it’s a 1% damage buff no matter what, not sure how much of a buff you can really call that.

But im still surprised that 10% crit chance is stronger than a 6% pure damagr buff which also buffs crit damage

John_Falstaff · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

2%, 1% per sword so overall a buff from 4% to 6% pure damage to everything, crit only increased the change to crit by 10%

The current value is 2.5% per sword. So dual wielding swords, you go from 5% to 6%.

But only if you duel wield. One sword was being rounded down to 2% while two swords produced the proper combined 5% or so im told. So it’s a 1% damage buff no matter what, not sure how much of a buff you can really call that.

But im still surprised that 10% crit chance is stronger than a 6% pure damagr buff which also buffs crit damage

Thing is, the damage bonuses were changed into additive (from being multiplicative) a while ago, which was the downfall of swords. Those 6% of damage applies to base damage, not to damage you see on a parse. In other words, 6% might mean an increase from, for example, 60% bonus damage (from CPs, from set bonuses, from crit multiplier) to 66% of the base, which isn't huge.

SaintSubwayy · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Is only 1%. Daggers will still be the best.

2%, 1% per sword so overall a buff from 4% to 6% pure damage to everything, crit only increased the change to crit by 10%

The current value is 2.5% per sword. So dual wielding swords, you go from 5% to 6%.

But only if you duel wield. One sword was being rounded down to 2% while two swords produced the proper combined 5% or so im told. So it’s a 1% damage buff no matter what, not sure how much of a buff you can really call that.

But im still surprised that 10% crit chance is stronger than a 6% pure damagr buff which also buffs crit damage

ona Khajit NB running AY, it may become viable to run swords, since aftr 85% Critchance, its not really worth stacking more crit for PVE.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

So in the U21 sword passive will get a buff from 2% to 3% pure damage per sword so a pure 6% damage increase is better or 10% crit chance? Also Axes have been gutted for some reason and now they are useless in PvE and maces have always been useless.

So can anyone test or do calculations to see if that is true?

Maybe you have no clue what maces do.
If you have less than ~7000 penetration debuff on your target, that has Veteran content resistances, maces do more damage than daggers even when you have +90% crit damage multiplier. That includes trash mobs fights or those 3DD 1H runs.
To make you understand bit better, even if you put major fracture to ALL enemies, this is still not enough for daggers to catch up with the maces damage.

That is why most of the builds which are based on dummy damage output, are far away from reality.

Larry78 · January 2019

I never play BiS

ArchMikem · January 2019

Didnt swords originally give you 5% per back in the day?

ankeor · January 2019

Crit chance provides crit which in my case is a 92% damage boost. Definitely better that 6%.

SaintSubwayy · January 2019

ArchMikem wrote: »

Didnt swords originally give you 5% per back in the day?

thats true, but if you only slotted 1 Sword -> 2.5% the .5% was rounded down, like a CP jumppoints do...so it was more or less 2%

but now this problem has been fixed, and swords are better now than before, maybe even worth slotting on certain gear / races combos

Bigevilpeter · January 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

So in the U21 sword passive will get a buff from 2% to 3% pure damage per sword so a pure 6% damage increase is better or 10% crit chance? Also Axes have been gutted for some reason and now they are useless in PvE and maces have always been useless.

So can anyone test or do calculations to see if that is true?

Maybe you have no clue what maces do.
If you have less than ~7000 penetration debuff on your target, that has Veteran content resistances, maces do more damage than daggers even when you have +90% crit damage multiplier. That includes trash mobs fights or those 3DD 1H runs.
To make you understand bit better, even if you put major fracture to ALL enemies, this is still not enough for daggers to catch up with the maces damage.

That is why most of the builds which are based on dummy damage output, are far away from reality.

Maces ignores 10% of the remaining resistances after all penetration applied, any real dd will have around 11-12k penetration with major fracture, add 3k from alkosh in any coordinated group and occasionally Potl 1320 you get around 16320 penetration, the max resistances on bosses is 18k so you are left with 1.7k remaining penetration take 20% of that with 2 maces and you get 340 penetration from 2 maces which is horrible compared to other weapons.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

So in the U21 sword passive will get a buff from 2% to 3% pure damage per sword so a pure 6% damage increase is better or 10% crit chance? Also Axes have been gutted for some reason and now they are useless in PvE and maces have always been useless.

So can anyone test or do calculations to see if that is true?

Maybe you have no clue what maces do.
If you have less than ~7000 penetration debuff on your target, that has Veteran content resistances, maces do more damage than daggers even when you have +90% crit damage multiplier. That includes trash mobs fights or those 3DD 1H runs.
To make you understand bit better, even if you put major fracture to ALL enemies, this is still not enough for daggers to catch up with the maces damage.

That is why most of the builds which are based on dummy damage output, are far away from reality.

Maces ignores 10% of the remaining resistances after all penetration applied, any real dd will have around 11-12k penetration with major fracture, add 3k from alkosh in any coordinated group and occasionally Potl 1320 you get around 16320 penetration, the max resistances on bosses is 18k so you are left with 1.7k remaining penetration take 20% of that with 2 maces and you get 340 penetration from 2 maces which is horrible compared to other weapons.

You wrote about ideal scenario, when that is not the case even in vet trials with PUGs, and what you wrote is very unrealistic and circumstantial.

As a tank even in pug vet trials i can barely get 2 synergies during the whole duration of the trial to activate Alkosh on the boss. Regardless if asking for synergies the people have a tunnel vision and DDs are using synergies as fast as they see them.

Also a tank can only put major fracture on limited amount of enemies. Something on trials like vHRC, vAA, vSO is impossible to do it on more than 1-2. Except if you want gargoyles, or bosses running around the DDs & healers while I try to use pierce armour instead of focusing block the boss avoiding to get one shotted.

Trash fights in vet dungeons again, the tank has to run around put major fracture, while someone gives him synergy to activate alkosh.

And because someone else made much better work please have a read.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367589/why-maces-are-not-as-bad-in-pve-as-most-consider-them-to-be-analysis

Joker99 · January 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

So in the U21 sword passive will get a buff from 2% to 3% pure damage per sword so a pure 6% damage increase is better or 10% crit chance? Also Axes have been gutted for some reason and now they are useless in PvE and maces have always been useless.

So can anyone test or do calculations to see if that is true?

Maybe you have no clue what maces do.
If you have less than ~7000 penetration debuff on your target, that has Veteran content resistances, maces do more damage than daggers even when you have +90% crit damage multiplier. That includes trash mobs fights or those 3DD 1H runs.
To make you understand bit better, even if you put major fracture to ALL enemies, this is still not enough for daggers to catch up with the maces damage.

That is why most of the builds which are based on dummy damage output, are far away from reality.

Maces ignores 10% of the remaining resistances after all penetration applied, any real dd will have around 11-12k penetration with major fracture, add 3k from alkosh in any coordinated group and occasionally Potl 1320 you get around 16320 penetration, the max resistances on bosses is 18k so you are left with 1.7k remaining penetration take 20% of that with 2 maces and you get 340 penetration from 2 maces which is horrible compared to other weapons.

You wrote about ideal scenario, when that is not the case even in vet trials with PUGs, and what you wrote is very unrealistic and circumstantial.

As a tank even in pug vet trials i can barely get 2 synergies during the whole duration of the trial to activate Alkosh on the boss. Regardless if asking for synergies the people have a tunnel vision and DDs are using synergies as fast as they see them.

Also a tank can only put major fracture on limited amount of enemies. Something on trials like vHRC, vAA, vSO is impossible to do it on more than 1-2. Except if you want gargoyles, or bosses running around the DDs & healers while I try to use pierce armour instead of focusing block the boss avoiding to get one shotted.

Trash fights in vet dungeons again, the tank has to run around put major fracture, while someone gives him synergy to activate alkosh.

And because someone else made much better work please have a read.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367589/why-maces-are-not-as-bad-in-pve-as-most-consider-them-to-be-analysis

It's pretty stupid to build yourself around no optimisation, not like the small damage increase will matter much in a PUG.

Tasear · January 2019

Joker99 wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

So in the U21 sword passive will get a buff from 2% to 3% pure damage per sword so a pure 6% damage increase is better or 10% crit chance? Also Axes have been gutted for some reason and now they are useless in PvE and maces have always been useless.

So can anyone test or do calculations to see if that is true?

Maybe you have no clue what maces do.
If you have less than ~7000 penetration debuff on your target, that has Veteran content resistances, maces do more damage than daggers even when you have +90% crit damage multiplier. That includes trash mobs fights or those 3DD 1H runs.
To make you understand bit better, even if you put major fracture to ALL enemies, this is still not enough for daggers to catch up with the maces damage.

That is why most of the builds which are based on dummy damage output, are far away from reality.

Maces ignores 10% of the remaining resistances after all penetration applied, any real dd will have around 11-12k penetration with major fracture, add 3k from alkosh in any coordinated group and occasionally Potl 1320 you get around 16320 penetration, the max resistances on bosses is 18k so you are left with 1.7k remaining penetration take 20% of that with 2 maces and you get 340 penetration from 2 maces which is horrible compared to other weapons.

You wrote about ideal scenario, when that is not the case even in vet trials with PUGs, and what you wrote is very unrealistic and circumstantial.

As a tank even in pug vet trials i can barely get 2 synergies during the whole duration of the trial to activate Alkosh on the boss. Regardless if asking for synergies the people have a tunnel vision and DDs are using synergies as fast as they see them.

Also a tank can only put major fracture on limited amount of enemies. Something on trials like vHRC, vAA, vSO is impossible to do it on more than 1-2. Except if you want gargoyles, or bosses running around the DDs & healers while I try to use pierce armour instead of focusing block the boss avoiding to get one shotted.

Trash fights in vet dungeons again, the tank has to run around put major fracture, while someone gives him synergy to activate alkosh.

And because someone else made much better work please have a read.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367589/why-maces-are-not-as-bad-in-pve-as-most-consider-them-to-be-analysis

It's pretty stupid to build yourself around no optimisation, not like the small damage increase will matter much in a PUG.

It's called building for flexibility

ankeor · January 2019

PvE wise I tend to think like "Everytime I do not crit I lose damage"
To me 70% crit chance is 30% chance to not being able to crit. So I prefer to stack crit chance unless there is another very strong option. Considering other 1h weapon options I think they are not worth to take place of daggers.