Same discussion.. ZOS will not do anything. I report the same 3 BOTS once a day each. Been reporting them for months. Still there.

mocap wrote: »

bots are main producers of golden mats. Don't report them. Seriously, not trolling. How many golden mats most of you sold last month? I bet 0.

16 would be the worst amount in any 1 DAY i have ever sold for years. Most days its 34+. My stock still grows. There are guilds that are based on crafting where most members do writs daily on every character. If i need more gold mats ill go collect some of my thousands of survey maps. 1 zone will get me about 2 hundred gold mats over about 2 hours speed farming them. Each map is collected before rapids expires. About 20 maps per location currently. Total survey map collection time amount left to collect is around 100 hours for just myself. WTB survey map collection service please ZOS Economy stability is very important in any MMO. Botters have been the single reason that has ended a lot of other games.

Every bot is taking gold from hard working players by killing the prices. When botting was at its worst. Rubedo leather was around 6g each with many traders having 30 listings of 200 made from multiple accounts at the same time. A few times per day as well. Terrible for anyone wanting to sell their mats after working so hard. at 6g most players were vendoring them. Now the prices have recovered a fair amount from being so bad in the past. Same thing goes with all the other mats from botters

Botting being possible in online gaming in this last decade baffles me. How is there no anti-cheat software that we must agree to if we want to play eso like so many other online games have. Software that will detect cheat software "running" at any moment the game is running. The removal of them i will not share specific details publicly. I will only say it is not on day 1. I can say botters do get removed. Do report them. A change was made many years a go where the more reports made against someone puts them higher on the list for investigation resulting in actions happening sooner rather than later. My personal mission of literally over 100 accounts at Vivec's Antlers in Stonefalls was totally successful. Now not only can players grind there. They can also do the quest which requires killing those same creatures. Information was both requested and given to zos regarding the botting accounts there. A change was made the following patch making the creatures there. Turning them from around a 30 second spawn time. To a random spawn time closer to that around the spawn time of other creatures in eso. The fast spawn times seemingly were there so multiple players could complete the quest with out no enemies in sight. Which did work fine until the botters came along

Even ESO during beta. The server were reset due to so many items from botters. Most people will say that it was hard to even see a single node for weeks or months. Constantly seeing characters zipping through the sky to each node location. The anti cheat software used has definitely improved since then. It does need to keep improving.

There will always be people trying to cheat everyone else. Thankfully its less than 1% of people out there

Taunting enemies. Pulling enemies on small amounts of the accounts at a time and shielding or self healing gets them killed. It really is fun

I just don’t get it.

Every third thread in here is someone complaining about things so inconsequential towards their gameplay and experience.

It’s gotten so bad that I now make posts complaining about their inconsequential threads.

Why do most of you get so bothered by everything.

It’s a game. It’s fun it’s a release. It isn’t your personal fantasy world that operates how and when you like.

That’s the point of mmo’s

I can’t even play single player games personally because I get bored in ten minutes with nothing but scripted content. Might as well watch a movie or read a book if storytelling is what I’m looking for.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

bots are main producers of golden mats. Don't report them. Seriously, not trolling. How many golden mats most of you sold last month? I bet 0.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Do you want cheap materials?

Is y'all botting?

Yeah. Just because we understand that botters make prices of materials much lower, must mean that we are botters.

This is literally not how economics work. Take away the bots and prices might spike for a couple days but they won't go above what people are willing to pay for them. It's not the real world - everyone has access to the same nodes. When the bots are denying those nodes and flooding the market with them, they can set whatever price they want... yet they set a low price.

Because people won't pay more for them.

Bots do not help the market in any way at all.

mrpaxman wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

bots are main producers of golden mats. Don't report them. Seriously, not trolling. How many golden mats most of you sold last month? I bet 0.

16 would be the worst amount in any 1 DAY i have ever sold for years. Most days its 34+. My stock still grows. There are guilds that are based on crafting where most members do writs daily on every character. If i need more gold mats ill go collect some of my thousands of survey maps. 1 zone will get me about 2 hundred gold mats over about 2 hours speed farming them. Each map is collected before rapids expires. About 20 maps per location currently. Total survey map collection time amount left to collect is around 100 hours for just myself. WTB survey map collection service please ZOS Economy stability is very important in any MMO. Botters have been the single reason that has ended a lot of other games.

Every bot is taking gold from hard working players by killing the prices. When botting was at its worst. Rubedo leather was around 6g each with many traders having 30 listings of 200 made from multiple accounts at the same time. A few times per day as well. Terrible for anyone wanting to sell their mats after working so hard. at 6g most players were vendoring them. Now the prices have recovered a fair amount from being so bad in the past. Same thing goes with all the other mats from botters

Botting being possible in online gaming in this last decade baffles me. How is there no anti-cheat software that we must agree to if we want to play eso like so many other online games have. Software that will detect cheat software "running" at any moment the game is running. The removal of them i will not share specific details publicly. I will only say it is not on day 1. I can say botters do get removed. Do report them. A change was made many years a go where the more reports made against someone puts them higher on the list for investigation resulting in actions happening sooner rather than later. My personal mission of literally over 100 accounts at Vivec's Antlers in Stonefalls was totally successful. Now not only can players grind there. They can also do the quest which requires killing those same creatures. Information was both requested and given to zos regarding the botting accounts there. A change was made the following patch making the creatures there. Turning them from around a 30 second spawn time. To a random spawn time closer to that around the spawn time of other creatures in eso. The fast spawn times seemingly were there so multiple players could complete the quest with out no enemies in sight. Which did work fine until the botters came along

Even ESO during beta. The server were reset due to so many items from botters. Most people will say that it was hard to even see a single node for weeks or months. Constantly seeing characters zipping through the sky to each node location. The anti cheat software used has definitely improved since then. It does need to keep improving.

There will always be people trying to cheat everyone else. Thankfully its less than 1% of people out there

Taunting enemies. Pulling enemies on small amounts of the accounts at a time and shielding or self healing gets them killed. It really is fun

It baffles my mind why they don't buy/develop an anti-cheat system for this game. Maybe it would bring down performance even more?

Na0cho wrote: »

I just don’t get it.

Every third thread in here is someone complaining about things so inconsequential towards their gameplay and experience.

It’s gotten so bad that I now make posts complaining about their inconsequential threads.

Why do most of you get so bothered by everything.

It’s a game. It’s fun it’s a release. It isn’t your personal fantasy world that operates how and when you like.

That’s the point of mmo’s

I can’t even play single player games personally because I get bored in ten minutes with nothing but scripted content. Might as well watch a movie or read a book if storytelling is what I’m looking for.

Some people like to make gold through farming. Bots ruin that for them.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

bots are main producers of golden mats. Don't report them. Seriously, not trolling. How many golden mats most of you sold last month? I bet 0.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Do you want cheap materials?

Is y'all botting?

Yeah. Just because we understand that botters make prices of materials much lower, must mean that we are botters.

This is literally not how economics work. Take away the bots and prices might spike for a couple days but they won't go above what people are willing to pay for them. It's not the real world - everyone has access to the same nodes. When the bots are denying those nodes and flooding the market with them, they can set whatever price they want... yet they set a low price.

Because people won't pay more for them.

Bots do not help the market in any way at all.

This literally makes no sense. Farmers set low prices because there is far more supply than demand. More competition leads to downward pressure on the price.

And how is there far more supply than demand again?

But if you took out all the bots, and there was suddenly only 10% of the current supply of, let's say, Jute on the market... do you think the sellers would spike their prices to match that and still turn a profit? Of course not. No one would pay that because players can just go farm for themselves. The price will never go above what buyers are willing to pay, bots or not. It literally makes complete sense. There's no competition, only convenience.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

bots are main producers of golden mats. Don't report them. Seriously, not trolling. How many golden mats most of you sold last month? I bet 0.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Do you want cheap materials?

Is y'all botting?

Yeah. Just because we understand that botters make prices of materials much lower, must mean that we are botters.

This is literally not how economics work. Take away the bots and prices might spike for a couple days but they won't go above what people are willing to pay for them. It's not the real world - everyone has access to the same nodes. When the bots are denying those nodes and flooding the market with them, they can set whatever price they want... yet they set a low price.

Because people won't pay more for them.

Bots do not help the market in any way at all.

This literally makes no sense. Farmers set low prices because there is far more supply than demand. More competition leads to downward pressure on the price.

And how is there far more supply than demand again?

But if you took out all the bots, and there was suddenly only 10% of the current supply of, let's say, Jute on the market... do you think the sellers would spike their prices to match that and still turn a profit? Of course not. No one would pay that because players can just go farm for themselves. The price will never go above what buyers are willing to pay, bots or not. It literally makes complete sense. There's no competition, only convenience.

Yes, prices will go up. That is how economics works.

Farming has a cost associated with it in the form of time investment.

...and botters represent a zero-time investment. The prices will not go very far up because if they skyrocket no one will buy them. That's what I meant by it being basic economics. Reduce market supply in an environment where supply in the field is available to every single customer and you can only increase the market price by so much before the time investment to farm becomes more desirable to the customer than the payment of gold associated with that time investment on behalf of the seller. Thanks to botting, the prices have been set at more or less current rates (whatever they are) for a considerable amount of time - buyers aren't going to care about the reasons for mark-ups, so the expectation will remain.

I'm happy to be wrong about this though. Triple the price of a material that can be farmed and sells well and see if it still sells as well. Then triple the price of something rare and see if it still sells as well. #science

Yikes.

Interesting side note: Many of the bots I'm seeing are wearing costumes and have pets or cosmetics purchased in the crown store, which means the crowns-for-gold ability is getting used by them to avoid the obvious appearance (I'm assuming that they're not spending their actual money on them). There's still lots of ways to spot them but they are paying attention. It's worth a lot of real money to them to do so.

Ok so I wasnt sure what bots was and still can't really understand it ... Can someone please explain it to me? For what i read Its a non human player but i dont understand how someone can make a robot to play the game instead of him? And how do i know one if i see one?

BWS2K wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

bots are main producers of golden mats. Don't report them. Seriously, not trolling. How many golden mats most of you sold last month? I bet 0.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Do you want cheap materials?

Is y'all botting?

Yeah. Just because we understand that botters make prices of materials much lower, must mean that we are botters.

This is literally not how economics work. Take away the bots and prices might spike for a couple days but they won't go above what people are willing to pay for them. It's not the real world - everyone has access to the same nodes. When the bots are denying those nodes and flooding the market with them, they can set whatever price they want... yet they set a low price.

Because people won't pay more for them.

Bots do not help the market in any way at all.

This literally makes no sense. Farmers set low prices because there is far more supply than demand. More competition leads to downward pressure on the price.

And how is there far more supply than demand again?

But if you took out all the bots, and there was suddenly only 10% of the current supply of, let's say, Jute on the market... do you think the sellers would spike their prices to match that and still turn a profit? Of course not. No one would pay that because players can just go farm for themselves. The price will never go above what buyers are willing to pay, bots or not. It literally makes complete sense. There's no competition, only convenience.

Yes, prices will go up. That is how economics works.

Farming has a cost associated with it in the form of time investment.

...and botters represent a zero-time investment. The prices will not go very far up because if they skyrocket no one will buy them. That's what I meant by it being basic economics. Reduce market supply in an environment where supply in the field is available to every single customer and you can only increase the market price by so much before the time investment to farm becomes more desirable to the customer than the payment of gold associated with that time investment on behalf of the seller. Thanks to botting, the prices have been set at more or less current rates (whatever they are) for a considerable amount of time - buyers aren't going to care about the reasons for mark-ups, so the expectation will remain.

I'm happy to be wrong about this though. Triple the price of a material that can be farmed and sells well and see if it still sells as well. Then triple the price of something rare and see if it still sells as well. #science

Prices were 3x higher what they are at one point. Tempering Alloys were going for 12k 2 years ago on PC/NA. They sell for 4k now. People bought them at 12k.

Farming is slow. In my full farming gear, without any other players around, I might be able to farm 3 stacks of rubedite ore, 2 stacks of dust, 1 stack of wood, 1 stack of silk, and a few dozen flowers in an hour. If you are doing a lot of crafting, that isn't nearly enough to meet your needs.

And again, that's a perfect scenario using an optimized setup. How many players have a full set of farming gear or know how to efficiently farm? How many players are willing to spend 10+ hours every week farming all the materials they need for crafting? Not many I'd say. This is why there will always be a market for materials. There is a substantial cost associated with farming that you're ignoring.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

bots are main producers of golden mats. Don't report them. Seriously, not trolling. How many golden mats most of you sold last month? I bet 0.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Do you want cheap materials?

Is y'all botting?

Yeah. Just because we understand that botters make prices of materials much lower, must mean that we are botters.

This is literally not how economics work. Take away the bots and prices might spike for a couple days but they won't go above what people are willing to pay for them. It's not the real world - everyone has access to the same nodes. When the bots are denying those nodes and flooding the market with them, they can set whatever price they want... yet they set a low price.

Because people won't pay more for them.

Bots do not help the market in any way at all.

This literally makes no sense. Farmers set low prices because there is far more supply than demand. More competition leads to downward pressure on the price.

And how is there far more supply than demand again?

But if you took out all the bots, and there was suddenly only 10% of the current supply of, let's say, Jute on the market... do you think the sellers would spike their prices to match that and still turn a profit? Of course not. No one would pay that because players can just go farm for themselves. The price will never go above what buyers are willing to pay, bots or not. It literally makes complete sense. There's no competition, only convenience.

Yes, prices will go up. That is how economics works.

Farming has a cost associated with it in the form of time investment.

...and botters represent a zero-time investment. The prices will not go very far up because if they skyrocket no one will buy them. That's what I meant by it being basic economics. Reduce market supply in an environment where supply in the field is available to every single customer and you can only increase the market price by so much before the time investment to farm becomes more desirable to the customer than the payment of gold associated with that time investment on behalf of the seller. Thanks to botting, the prices have been set at more or less current rates (whatever they are) for a considerable amount of time - buyers aren't going to care about the reasons for mark-ups, so the expectation will remain.

I'm happy to be wrong about this though. Triple the price of a material that can be farmed and sells well and see if it still sells as well. Then triple the price of something rare and see if it still sells as well. #science

Prices were 3x higher what they are at one point. Tempering Alloys were going for 12k 2 years ago on PC/NA. They sell for 4k now. People bought them at 12k.

Farming is slow. In my full farming gear, without any other players around, I might be able to farm 3 stacks of rubedite ore, 2 stacks of dust, 1 stack of wood, 1 stack of silk, and a few dozen flowers in an hour. If you are doing a lot of crafting, that isn't nearly enough to meet your needs.

And again, that's a perfect scenario using an optimized setup. How many players have a full set of farming gear or know how to efficiently farm? How many players are willing to spend 10+ hours every week farming all the materials they need for crafting? Not many I'd say. This is why there will always be a market for materials. There is a substantial cost associated with farming that you're ignoring.

I agree. There will always be a market for materials - at a price people are willing to pay. That's my point. In the past, people were willing to pay 12k for Alloys. Now they sell for 4k. So post a bunch at 12k right now and see if they sell.

I'm not ignoring the substantial cost, I'm saying it's not an excuse to include or justify botting. If you removed them, people would be forced to decide to either farm or pay. Sellers might make a quick buck initially but the prices won't ever raise significantly because eventually people would just farm it themselves... which they wouldn't want to do... but they won't pay the high prices... so the sellers set prices competitively... and things balance out. You don't need bots to make that process work. That's what I meant by saying it's simple economics - some folks maintain that bots are an important and necessary part of keeping prices low. They aren't.

It's interesting to think what these injections of gold in the dailies are doing to the economy as well. Someone was just talking to me yesterday about the prices for... kuta? I don't remember... and how they'd spiked 'for some reason.' What happened this week? 100k daily reward. Sellers knew folks had more coin to burn and set their prices higher. Coin equals time and ZOS just gave us free time that we didn't spend farming that we could use to get materials. I, personally, don't think the injections are going to tank anything - the prices have already started to settle, I'm sure... because the extra coin is gone. No bots required.

I played in beta and those who didn't have no real idea what botting is like compared to then. Characters popping up from underground, zipping from node to node, massing around nodes and grabbing them before anyone else could, it was horrendous.

They attacked it back then, and if they aren't now then that's very sad because they could if they wanted to. WoW regularly has bot ban waves - it doesn't stop the practise but it slow them down for a time and lets real players engage in a game activity they enjoy without interference.