So... Warden class, Useless or am I wasting my time?

Xruptor · January 2019

I've recently returned to the game after a long hiatus. I have a question on whether I'm wasting my time on my Warden and should return to playing my Argonian Sorcerer because it brings more the table?

I had previously played as a Magika Sorcerer (which I got to 50 and put in lots of time on it, including CP points.). I geared it up and even played it in PVP and such. I had a good run with it but there was something about the class that I just felt was lacking. Honestly it could have just been the builds I was running or how I was playing it. There were many times I just felt weak and then there were times I felt that I only had defensive abilities slotted, with one damage skill and rest pet stuff. There were times it just felt boring.... BUT THE DPS was good!

So anyways I gave Warden a try out when Morrowind was released. I leveled an Argonian Warden up to 50 and really liked how the class plays and the abilities it has. I really liked the Magicka Warden at the time and truly enjoy the fact that I can heal/tank/dps on him. The fact that he has 3 different skill lines other than DPS was appealing as well. I'm currently dragging him through content and trying to catch him up to the point my Sorcerer is. (I'm somewhat of a competitionist LOL) I'm not having a hard time at all as a Magicka Warden but there will be a point I do want to do end content. Hence the "wasting my time?" question. BTW I don't mind healing, but I do want to do DPS from time to time.

With that being said, something keeps nagging at me so I felt I should ask here. Everything I've read about the Warden class both ingame and out of game has given my warning signs that I "should be looking elsewhere". Is it true that it's an extraordinarily weak class compared to all the other classes? Aside from Stamina builds, should I just shelve this character since I'm playing Magicka on him and move on? I do enjoy healing but apparently Templars and even Resto Staff Sorcs can do better than a Warden?

So I'm asking you all, should I continue playing the Warden which I enjoy, knowing fully well that it's an under-performing at least in the Magicka department? OR... should I just return back to my Sorcerer because of the DPS and utility it brings. (Apparently it can heal just as well also). I just don't want to put countless hours in my Warden only to feel that it was totally gimped at the end.

All this negativity about the class is making me doubt whether I should continue on it or not. I would like to hear what you all have to say in my current situation.

Sharee · January 2019

"Useless or am I wasting my time?"

What's the difference?

Stamina wardens are very strong. Magicka - depends on whom you ask.

ccmedaddy · January 2019

Magsorcs aren't really that much better than magdens in the current meta so if you enjoy the Warden class, I recommend sticking to it.

Besides, even with an Argonian magden (just like mine!) you can reach high enough DPS to complete all vet content in the game, including vet trials.

Xruptor · January 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Magsorcs aren't really that much better than magdens in the current meta so if you enjoy the Warden class, I recommend sticking to it.

Besides, even with an Argonian magden (just like mine!) you can reach high enough DPS to complete all vet content in the game, including vet trials.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I'm still debating what I should do at this point. It's so frustrating really.

It's nice to see another Argonian Warden

I was under the impression that Mag Sorcs are more than okay right now? I've had people tell me in game that Wardens (specially Magika Wardens) are garbage and I should reroll (seriously this really did happen). One of the many reasons why I went online and did some research. What I found was a little concerning. Hence why I posted this thread to get some feedback from others.

Chirru · January 2019

Compared to Sorcs the Magden dps is pitiful.
Got two 400+ Magdens and shelved them both.

Do not know how Stamden compares to Sorc

Basically PvP folks complained that much Wardens are OP that they were Nerfed into Oblivion.

But than...most other Classes were not treated kindly either.
I think that only the Sorc and NB escaped the Ueber Nerf madness (my opinion and maybe I am wrong).

Let us wait what surprises the future will bring

Good luck to us all

LeHarrt91 · January 2019

Magicka Wardens are decent, and with a lot of indirect buffs next patch they will be better. They do pull less dps that the other classes currently though.

Stamina Warden is great at the moment in PVE and PVP.

Dalsinthus · January 2019

Stamdens are pretty dominant in pvp right now. They are tanky, with great heals and high burst damage. I’m honestly getting tired of fighting the sharks - dawny - spin2win meta.

MLGProPlayer · January 2019

Depends on what role you want to play.

Magicka DPS: Sorc = Warden (both suck)
Stamina DPS: Sorc < Warden
Tank: Sorc < Warden
Healer: Sorc > Warden

Wolfpaw · January 2019

No such thing as a "balanced mmorpg", just wait til your class turn is at the top. In other words, play what's fun to you.

zvavi · January 2019

Wardens are fine bro. all classes are balanced +-10%. Those don't worry for it.

Elusiin · January 2019

Wardens are not the best with magicka dps (and stamina healing is not a thing, I would not recommend trying it). Skills bring little burst or utility, I'd only recommend them for stam dps, either mag or stam tanking, or mag healing.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Magicka Wardens are decent, and with a lot of indirect buffs next patch they will be better. They do pull less dps that the other classes currently though.

Stamina Warden is great at the moment in PVE and PVP.

forgot to mention lack of group viability

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Depends on what role you want to play.

Magicka DPS: Sorc = Warden (both suck)
Stamina DPS: Sorc < Warden
Tank: Sorc < Warden
Healer: Sorc > Warden

Magsorc has higher dps and group viability. for Mag DPS i would say Sorc > Warden

FrancisCrawford · January 2019

I don't understand the view that wardens bring little group utility.

Shalks has an AoE debuff that the group may otherwise have only single-target.
Minor Toughness is a good thing.
Frost Cloak is helpful to anybody except templars (definitely) and DKs (possibly).
Lotus offers healing
Winter's Revenge offers a little snare.

Sylvermynx · January 2019

I kind of think it depends on what you expect to get.

If you're looking at "endgame" (yeah, I put that in quotes... sue me....) a warden might not be a very good option. I don't know as I don't do endgame.

Overall, I've found my wardens to be playable and fun.

MLGProPlayer · January 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't understand the view that wardens bring little group utility.
Shalks has an AoE debuff that the group may otherwise have only single-target.

Minor Toughness is a good thing.

Frost Cloak is helpful to anybody except templars (definitely) and DKs (possibly).

Lotus offers healing

Winter's Revenge offers a little snare.

Those are support skills. You can't fit any of them into a magden's skillbar without losing massive DPS (and they already have the lowest DPS).

So yes, warden tank and healer does have utility (no one ever argued otherwise). It's magden DPS that's the problem. They have the lowest DPS in the game and no utility.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't understand the view that wardens bring little group utility.
Shalks has an AoE debuff that the group may otherwise have only single-target.

Minor Toughness is a good thing.

Frost Cloak is helpful to anybody except templars (definitely) and DKs (possibly).

Lotus offers healing

Winter's Revenge offers a little snare.

Major breach is provided by tanks already.

Minor toughness is only provided to yourself with normal builds.

Frost cloak isn't run on Magden. It's a tank or pvp thing.

Lotus blossom is *** and not worth slotting even for the major prophecy as inner light already provides it and increases your dps. Healers can run it though.

Winter's Revenge's snare doesn't stack with a tank's snare. They usually run a more powerful snare than 30%.

Na0cho · January 2019

I see a ton of magdens in battlegrounds right now.

Snares for days and insane sustain ( especially argonian)

If by endgame you mean trials the I guess they are sub par.

Trials don’t interest me in the slightest. My end game is pvp.

JobooAGS · January 2019

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't understand the view that wardens bring little group utility.
Shalks has an AoE debuff that the group may otherwise have only single-target.

Minor Toughness is a good thing.

Frost Cloak is helpful to anybody except templars (definitely) and DKs (possibly).

Lotus offers healing

Winter's Revenge offers a little snare.

Major breach is provided by tanks already.

Minor toughness is only provided to yourself with normal builds.

Frost cloak isn't run on Magden. It's a tank or pvp thing.

Lotus blossom is *** and not worth slotting even for the major prophecy as inner light already provides it and increases your dps. Healers can run it though.

Winter's Revenge's snare doesn't stack with a tank's snare. They usually run a more powerful snare than 30%.

Unless you are poking everything in sight, major fracture and breech is not hitting the adds.

Orbs, when you pop them count as a heal done by you therefore apply toughness to group

Ermiq · January 2019

Warden is a great healer.
Warden has great visuals and interesting gameplay feel.
Stam Warden is a great PvPer.
Argonian Sorc is not that much better in DPS than Argonian Warden, only minmaxers would care about that difference, but minmaxers would never play Argonian Warden for DPS.

Conclusion: Warden is bad for minmax-DPS-nerds, while the majority of playerbase keep getting fun with their Wardens.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

JobooAGS wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't understand the view that wardens bring little group utility.
Shalks has an AoE debuff that the group may otherwise have only single-target.

Minor Toughness is a good thing.

Frost Cloak is helpful to anybody except templars (definitely) and DKs (possibly).

Lotus offers healing

Winter's Revenge offers a little snare.

Major breach is provided by tanks already.

Minor toughness is only provided to yourself with normal builds.

Frost cloak isn't run on Magden. It's a tank or pvp thing.

Lotus blossom is *** and not worth slotting even for the major prophecy as inner light already provides it and increases your dps. Healers can run it though.

Winter's Revenge's snare doesn't stack with a tank's snare. They usually run a more powerful snare than 30%.

Unless you are poking everything in sight, major fracture and breech is not hitting the adds.

Orbs, when you pop them count as a heal done by you therefore apply toughness to group

The adds already die fast often times they are already dead before the fissure comes up. The only thing i see there that is useful is the orb pop. Even then you're not hitting everyone unless you're in a trial. And in a trial Stamden is better. Stamden is just better anyway.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

Eremith wrote: »

Warden is a great healer.
Warden has great visuals and interesting gameplay feel.
Stam Warden is a great PvPer.
Argonian Sorc is not that much better in DPS than Argonian Warden, only minmaxers would care about that difference, but minmaxers would never play Argonian Warden for DPS.

Conclusion: Warden is bad for minmax-DPS-nerds, while the majority of playerbase keep getting fun with their Wardens.

4 dps skills that (most of which are raw dps) doesn't feel too fun to me. I'm here for the "wields frost spells against their enemies" bit which feels like a lie. It's still my favourite class though.

dovakiin5574 · January 2019

I mean... I did vMoL with a magden on my team (I was stamblade) and tbh they were rezzing me more than the other way around so...

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I mean... I did vMoL with a magden on my team (I was stamblade) and tbh they were rezzing me more than the other way around so...

Not sure how to feel about this. I feel really rude saying this. But maybe it speaks more about you as a player? Again, sorry. Its rude.

dovakiin5574 · January 2019

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I mean... I did vMoL with a magden on my team (I was stamblade) and tbh they were rezzing me more than the other way around so...

Not sure how to feel about this. I feel really rude saying this. But maybe it speaks more about you as a player? Again, sorry. Its rude.

Oh lol it shouldn't. I am actually really good, but when I play with a certain group I like to LEROOOY JENKIIIIIIIINNNSSS right into mobs lol.

45k solo, 52k raid buffed ~~ Average vet trial deaths when I'm being super serious is 1.5

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I mean... I did vMoL with a magden on my team (I was stamblade) and tbh they were rezzing me more than the other way around so...

Not sure how to feel about this. I feel really rude saying this. But maybe it speaks more about you as a player? Again, sorry. Its rude.

Oh lol it shouldn't. I am actually really good, but when I play with a certain group I like to LEROOOY JENKIIIIIIIINNNSSS right into mobs lol.

45k solo, 52k raid buffed ~~ Average vet trial deaths when I'm being super serious is 1.5

Ah! It's probably the jenkins mentality XD.

MLGProPlayer · January 2019

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I mean... I did vMoL with a magden on my team (I was stamblade) and tbh they were rezzing me more than the other way around so...

Magden doesn't have anything that would make them more survivable than any other magicka class. This just sounds like a function of magicka having more survivability than stamina in general.

Jamdarius · January 2019

Xruptor wrote: »

I've recently returned to the game after a long hiatus. I have a question on whether I'm wasting my time on my Warden and should return to playing my Argonian Sorcerer because it brings more the table?

I had previously played as a Magika Sorcerer (which I got to 50 and put in lots of time on it, including CP points.). I geared it up and even played it in PVP and such. I had a good run with it but there was something about the class that I just felt was lacking. Honestly it could have just been the builds I was running or how I was playing it. There were many times I just felt weak and then there were times I felt that I only had defensive abilities slotted, with one damage skill and rest pet stuff. There were times it just felt boring.... BUT THE DPS was good!

So anyways I gave Warden a try out when Morrowind was released. I leveled an Argonian Warden up to 50 and really liked how the class plays and the abilities it has. I really liked the Magicka Warden at the time and truly enjoy the fact that I can heal/tank/dps on him. The fact that he has 3 different skill lines other than DPS was appealing as well. I'm currently dragging him through content and trying to catch him up to the point my Sorcerer is. (I'm somewhat of a competitionist LOL) I'm not having a hard time at all as a Magicka Warden but there will be a point I do want to do end content. Hence the "wasting my time?" question. BTW I don't mind healing, but I do want to do DPS from time to time.

With that being said, something keeps nagging at me so I felt I should ask here. Everything I've read about the Warden class both ingame and out of game has given my warning signs that I "should be looking elsewhere". Is it true that it's an extraordinarily weak class compared to all the other classes? Aside from Stamina builds, should I just shelve this character since I'm playing Magicka on him and move on? I do enjoy healing but apparently Templars and even Resto Staff Sorcs can do better than a Warden?

So I'm asking you all, should I continue playing the Warden which I enjoy, knowing fully well that it's an under-performing at least in the Magicka department? OR... should I just return back to my Sorcerer because of the DPS and utility it brings. (Apparently it can heal just as well also). I just don't want to put countless hours in my Warden only to feel that it was totally gimped at the end.

All this negativity about the class is making me doubt whether I should continue on it or not. I would like to hear what you all have to say in my current situation.

Now it depends on what kind of end game content and what for you wanna go. Because if you plan to be "top" I suggest you look Elsweyr. MagDens are pretty strong but not the top of the chart if you compare them to magicka NB's for example, they become even less powerful if you roleplay them as Frost Mages however you can still do all content just fine.

Magdens are very good in BG PvP, people are cursing them for their ability to snare everything.

Knightpanther · January 2019

Nothing is useless if you have fun playing it.

Be safe

Xruptor · January 2019

Thanks for all the great responses! Ive decided to stick with my Warden since i enjoy playing him. Im not really a min maxer and if they can do just fine later on and complete content, then im okay with that. I'll just push forward with him through the current muck surrounding the class and hope they fix things in the future. There are a lot of naysayers and or doomsayer with the class, so it was a little troubling.
I suppose if i really did ever want to make him slightly better, i would change him to high elf or something. But i enjoy him being an argonian

His current dps seems fine to me so far.

FrancisCrawford · January 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't understand the view that wardens bring little group utility.
Shalks has an AoE debuff that the group may otherwise have only single-target.

Minor Toughness is a good thing.

Frost Cloak is helpful to anybody except templars (definitely) and DKs (possibly).

Lotus offers healing

Winter's Revenge offers a little snare.

Those are support skills. You can't fit any of them into a magden's skillbar without losing massive DPS (and they already have the lowest DPS).

So yes, warden tank and healer does have utility (no one ever argued otherwise). It's magden DPS that's the problem. They have the lowest DPS in the game and no utility.

Shalks doesn't belong in a warden DPS rotation? Winter's Revenge doesn't? The personal crit and sustain benefits of Lotus aren't enough to make it worth running? The DPS loss of casting Cloak (or another class' equivalent) is too awful to contemplate?

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Lotus blossom is *** and not worth slotting even for the major prophecy as inner light already provides it and increases your dps.

Hmm. Inner Light is one bar only and replaces an Animal Companions skill. But Inner Light gives +6% to max magicka and +1% to regen, which is a lot better than +3% to damage. And one should be happy to backbar Netch for the regen passive. And the need to have a destro staff skill on each bar is going away.

OK. I guess Inner Light really does contribute non-trivially to DPS.