Thanks for allowing Skyshards to be brought to other characters. Thread closed.

Imryll · January 2019

No, thank you. I want to grow individual characters not have ready-made alts--just add XP.

Edziu · January 2019

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Nothing but stubbornness or laziness prevents that right now. In the time you've taken to post about this on various threads, you could have had a maxed out character list.

no I couldnt
more its useless and tedious for me
I have leved to max all all my 10 characters and what?

most of them decided to level through random dungs with map exploration for skyshards taking me atleast 2 weeks to lvl single char on 50 lvl through this and what? still no enough skyshards/skillpoints gathered, still missing mst of map to have it explored with unlocked with it every wayshrine

while I love to do an content with friends...I just hate to reapeat this solo content only to make new character in playable state only because I want to try play different class

maybe and I have sometimes "casual" playing as have no time to play much more and still this exploration once I have done in cleary 100% on my char I just have no anywilling to repeat this once again as this is to boring, to tedious for me and better for me is just go to sleep withinh this time or just play other game like even single player which have better options to play while repeating same content which we have now to just level new character

and sorry but I dont even care to farm an challenger acheivements with nodeath, speedruns and hm at single run in dlc dungs to get them on every on my char with it

I dont care on what class I have got titles etc, this is my as player progress not character, Im doing content which I want only on single character which at this time I play on this class which I want now play and this doesnt mater to me if this class is even on meta or even in unplayable state for most progressing people - I jsut have hype to play on this class at thats all - even my character looks literally same, same race etc because I just like this look

Merlin13KAGL · January 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Again, you're assuming everyone wants it handed to them.

You can have more than enough skillpoints (which is why skyshards are such a concern) without every picking up a single shard (beyond the tutorial one, for those that wish to get picky). Base alliance war skills go pretty quick. Undaunted 9 in less than 25 hours. Basic guild skills in a handful of hours, as well.

Nothing saying you can't work on an alt, or alts over time. This is how most have ended up with 15 (or more). You don't have to be endgame ready the same day you create a new character.

I've stated it before, you can casual your way to fully functional in ~ 100 hours. How far back do you honestly expect it to be dialed back? What's your "Ready in X hours" goal?

Actually, nobody here is suggesting everyone wants it handed to them, that's where the toggle or map markers that have been suggested by so many come in to it.

I know you can do the math but you're talking about 1500 hours (62.5 days) those people have spent just getting characters up to speed, doing the same thing over and over. What a joke.
It takes like 2-4 hours to get a character to level 50 so today they'd only need to spend 30-60 hours levelling those 15 characters (Which in itself is less than your estimate of getting a single character up to speed) Again, what a joke.

I imagine whoever said 90% probably don't want to have to do that is pretty bang on the money.

Sky shards, lorebooks and other collectables are literally run-and-grab, no content involved, no minimum requirements, no skill; Just an unacceptable amount of time.

Why are you against a toggle on collectables? How does it affect you if someone knows where collectables are on the maps or has 150 skill points at level 1? As in, what is your actual problem with it, why are you fighting against it? I'm struggling to actually understand your issue.

It's a simple QOL change.

Just out of interest: Would you agree that we should remove all addons from PC, including these markers, auction house addons and all the rest that provide equally simple QOL help to players?

That's the top addons, in order: Skyshard locations, Lorebook locations, Crafting & trait tracker, Node maps, Detailed combat metrics (Not just SCT), Not entirely sure what the map rebuild is for (Vortan), A UI and Quest locations.

“It takes 2-4 hours”
It took me 3-4 MONTHS to get my main to level 30

How many in game hours? /played ?

IRL timeframe tells nothing about the actual required time, only your required time. To put it on common ground, list the /played time. I think you'll find it's less than you anticipate.

xxthir13enxx · January 2019

Thus the “Optional” portion...

I fail to see how people think this affects Others gameplay...

this is a QoL change we would like for Our Game....
You don’t Have to Use it if You don’t Want to.

tmbrinks · January 2019

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Thus the “Optional” portion...

I fail to see how people think this affects Others gameplay...

this is a QoL change we would like for Our Game....
You don’t Have to Use it if You don’t Want to.

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression. But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills. It will completely unbalance under 50 PvP/BGs.

For the "compromise" of having it unlock at level 50. (First off... not a compromise, since the argument is "we want account bound skyshards/skill points" (something they don't have) then go... well "let's compromise at only unlocking it at 50... that's fair"... not how changes work)

As for adding the 'skyshards' and 'lorebooks' add-ons as base game UI things for Console... I'm all for... then you can have your "toggle" of whether you want to use them or not.

But to just "give" you all the skill points you want for a character to be overpowered at a low level... no, no, a thousand times no.

(If you want the multitude of other reasons, look back in the thread, they have all been stated multiple times, by literally hundreds of people)

Why did somebody have to necro this thread... I thought it was dead...

xxthir13enxx · January 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

For the "compromise" of having it unlock at level 50. (First off... not a compromise, since the argument is "we want account bound skyshards/skill points" (something they don't have) then go... well "let's compromise at only unlocking it at 50... that's fair"... not how changes work)

Not how changes work....
....
....
Your argument Against it...is how it would impact U50 PVP...
the fix...Unlock at lvl 50
But that’s...not how changes work!?
Edit: Oh n btw I think it’s crazy to have CP on a U50 toon aswell...but hey...That’s Okay

klowdy1 · January 2019

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Make it so the locations are added to your map account wide after discovering the location of a skyshard or lore book.

There is an addon for that and you dont even need to discover locations first. In fact addons significantly enhance gameplay so much i would never dream of playing this game on console. Skyshard, lore book, quest locations...harvestmap, awesomeguildstore, mastermerchant, craftstore, TTC... i could go on. I cant imagine playing the game without all those addons that make the game much more bearable.

XBOX

I know which is why i said the last line. I wouldnt support every character being automatically given those items but would support that once shards, lorebooks, quest givers, and wayshrines are found by one character the location is shared with all other characters on that account.

This isn't a bad idea. I'm not for linking everything, but if books and shards show up on the map for alts, once another character has found it, that wouldn't be bad at all. You're still going out to collect everything, you just have a good idea of where everything (already collected once) is going to be.

BNOC · January 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

tmbrinks wrote: »

It will completely unbalance under 50 PvP/BGs.

Remember the rune cage meta? I was in < 50 BG's on a fully geared level 15 Sorc and I was going +30-0 consistently pulling 1-2M damage a game, without Met, shields or half of the base skills.

Under 50's BG's are unbalanced by the fact that any experienced players are usually competent with mechanics, completely geared through their own or a friends crafter and are often playing against complete beginners.

Under 50s BG's can safely be ignored as a problem imo.

tmbrinks · January 2019

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

For the "compromise" of having it unlock at level 50. (First off... not a compromise, since the argument is "we want account bound skyshards/skill points" (something they don't have) then go... well "let's compromise at only unlocking it at 50... that's fair"... not how changes work)

Not how changes work....
....
....
Your argument Against it...is how it would impact U50 PVP...
the fix...Unlock at lvl 50
But that’s...not how changes work!?
Edit: Oh n btw I think it’s crazy to have CP on a U50 toon aswell...but hey...That’s Okay

So, something is the way it currently is... you want a change... you don't get to go "we'll compromise halfway between, that's fair"

If ZoS had any intention of changing this, they would have said something in this 20+ page long thread by now. CP is already the "compromise" so it's easier to level. This is just one more in the line of "gimme, gimme, gimme more" until suddenly you're fully leveled, with every skill point in the game upon character creation. At that point, is it even a game? (That being said, I would RATHER them get rid of CP for under 50, than put in account bound skyshard/lorebooks/etc. I think they've struck a good balance of some things account bound and some character bound, but hey, what do I know?)

It's an MMO, MMO's are built upon you repeating content, and take time to build your characters.

Are you asking in Skyrim, once you've played the game, that your next character should be fully maxed out, right out of the box? Of course not... that would ruin the game.

Same thing here.

tmbrinks · January 2019

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

tmbrinks wrote: »

It will completely unbalance under 50 PvP/BGs.

Remember the rune cage meta? I was in < 50 BG's on a fully geared level 15 Sorc and I was going +30-0 consistently pulling 1-2M damage a game, without Met, shields or half of the base skills.

Under 50's BG's are unbalanced by the fact that any experienced players are usually competent with mechanics, completely geared through their own or a friends crafter and are often playing against complete beginners.

Under 50s BG's can safely be ignored as a problem imo.

The difference is you have to make a conscientious effort to do those things (I have friends in the game, so that they could do exactly that). Not have them just "given" to you upon character creation.

Do you see the difference?

One requires some effort, sacrifice, time spent on character creation.

The other is a handout.

If you want something, work for it, don't just get it handed to you.

Leocaran · January 2019

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

Oh, yes. I was too lazy to formulate this. Thank you for clearly explaining why this "getting a lot of skill points at level 1 is OP" is just idiocy.

BNOC · January 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

tmbrinks wrote: »

It will completely unbalance under 50 PvP/BGs.

Remember the rune cage meta? I was in < 50 BG's on a fully geared level 15 Sorc and I was going +30-0 consistently pulling 1-2M damage a game, without Met, shields or half of the base skills.

Under 50's BG's are unbalanced by the fact that any experienced players are usually competent with mechanics, completely geared through their own or a friends crafter and are often playing against complete beginners.

Under 50s BG's can safely be ignored as a problem imo.

The difference is you have to make a conscientious effort to do those things (I have friends in the game, so that they could do exactly that). Not have them just "given" to you upon character creation.

Do you see the difference?

One requires some effort, sacrifice, time spent on character creation.

The other is a handout.

If you want something, work for it, don't just get it handed to you.

I get given 1100 Champion points upon character creation, a shared bank full of food/potions/whatever, +XX million gold to buy whatever I want and so on.. The end result is that I am stronger with more advantages upon character creation and with that, will be levelling significantly faster than someone else.

I earned those CP on another character, should I have to collect them all again? I earned master crafter on another character, should I be not be allowed to craft my new character gear, potions, enchants or foods that others don't have access to?

If you answer no to any of those then ask yourself why Skyshards or lorebooks can't be shared.

I don't know what the damage, mitigation and recovery benefits are from those things I mentioned above but they're SIGNIFICANTLY more advantageous than a few skill points and a couple passives.

I got my traits researched and earned CP on my main the same way I collected skyshards and lorebooks on it - Time invested.
In that sense, I don't see the difference - Why are CP and Skyshards different?

I'm aware master crafting isn't globally shared across my characters but it doesn't need to be due to the fact you have a shared bank, which in essence, makes it global.

tmbrinks · January 2019

Leocaran wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

Oh, yes. I was too lazy to formulate this. Thank you for clearly explaining why this "getting a lot of skill points at level 1 is OP" is just idiocy.

once again... one option you have to work for... the other you are just given. There is a major difference

and yes... you unlock skills/passives/morphs much, much faster than you can put skill points into them (if you are just leveling up) So this would allow you to upgrade your character much, much, faster than you can previously. Thus, it is not a QoL improvement, it is a buff to your character. That means that balance and power need to be talked about.

kathandira · January 2019

Tetrafy wrote: »

As much as I love to re collect 1000 collectables it would be nice to only have to do this once per account. Nothing burns out new users more than a necessary grind to make other characters viable. Especially on console, we don't get addons. So even if the option was given to us that would be great, like a toggle on/off option. Suggestion from another member included a soft cap on skill points earned from skyshards for every 5 or ten levels until level 50 where the full amount is earned. And even a soft cap on the mages guildline for lorebooks. And with the most recent DLC this still is relevant. Perhaps give consoles the ability to use the skyshard addon? Give us something we spend thousands of hours and dollars on this game. Even some feedback would be alright.

I've never understood what the point of doing all that one multiple characters was.

I have 1 main, and 6 alts. I do all the collecting of things and big achievements on my Main, and the alts live with just what they need (A few extra sky shards to fill out a couple passives)

tmbrinks · January 2019

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

tmbrinks wrote: »

It will completely unbalance under 50 PvP/BGs.

Remember the rune cage meta? I was in < 50 BG's on a fully geared level 15 Sorc and I was going +30-0 consistently pulling 1-2M damage a game, without Met, shields or half of the base skills.

Under 50's BG's are unbalanced by the fact that any experienced players are usually competent with mechanics, completely geared through their own or a friends crafter and are often playing against complete beginners.

Under 50s BG's can safely be ignored as a problem imo.

The difference is you have to make a conscientious effort to do those things (I have friends in the game, so that they could do exactly that). Not have them just "given" to you upon character creation.

Do you see the difference?

One requires some effort, sacrifice, time spent on character creation.

The other is a handout.

If you want something, work for it, don't just get it handed to you.

I get given 1100 Champion points upon character creation, a shared bank full of food/potions/whatever, +XX million gold to buy whatever I want and so on.. The end result is that I am stronger with more advantages upon character creation and with that, will be levelling significantly faster than someone else.

I earned those CP on another character, should I have to collect them all again? I earned master crafter on another character, should I be not be allowed to craft my new character gear, potions, enchants or foods that others don't have access to?

If you answer no to any of those then ask yourself why Skyshards or lorebooks can't be shared.

I don't know what the damage, mitigation and recovery benefits are from those things I mentioned above but they're SIGNIFICANTLY more advantageous than a few skill points and a couple passives.

I got my traits researched and earned CP on my main the same way I collected skyshards and lorebooks on it - Time invested.
In that sense, I don't see the difference - Why are CP and Skyshards different?

I'm aware master crafting isn't globally shared across my characters but it doesn't need to be due to the fact you have a shared bank, which in essence, makes it global.

What you already have is the compromise (with shared CP, shared bank, shared gear)... The compromise, in my opinion, is already fair enough (overpowered with CP... overland is a joke) so why do you feel the incessant need to ask for even more?

For things with character progression and character power, you essentially have equal numbers that are account bound and that are character bound. THAT IS A PRETTY DAMN GOOD COMPROMISE already...

Items, such as gold, master writs, etc... are earned based on a characters individual progression, not the accounts (they use achievements to measure motif knowledge, etc...) If you made that account bound, along with the skyshards/skill points, there will be more crafting, more master writs, etc... further eroding the value of those crafts... it could affect the economy of the game in a drastic way.

The Devs of games, spends tons of time to determine what can and can't happen, what could effect the economy, power, balance of a game.

If, after 5 years, they haven't touched this, or made even a single mention of looking at it... there must be a really good reason for it... and that's probably because it would be game-breaking in some way.

AlnilamE · January 2019

BNOC wrote: »

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

Please try this. Tell us here how many skill points you need for a build, and then run around Tamriel collecting skyshards until you have all those skill points. Then tell us what level you got to, because you most definitely won't be level 1 anymore.

xxthir13enxx · January 2019

It is Precisely BECAUSE it has been 5years that NOW they Should apply this...those of us that have been here since the beginning THAT are tired of the same ol #>*+^% been there done that...
It is these kind of changes that keep long term players playing...I currently have Zero interest in NEW Necromancer class...(therefore no sale to ZOS) as I’m not going through all the bs Again with leveling...C'est la vie

tmbrinks · January 2019

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

It is Precisely BECAUSE it has been 5years that NOW they Should apply this...those of us that have been here since the beginning are tired of the same ol #>*+^% been there done that...
It is these kind of changes that keep long term players playing...I currently have Zero interest in NEW Necromancer class...(therefore no sale to ZOS) as I’m not going through all the bs Again with leveling...C'est la vie

please don't speak for "all" of us... I too have been here since the beginning.

xxthir13enxx · January 2019

Sorry missed a word...happy?

BNOC · January 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

tmbrinks wrote: »

It will completely unbalance under 50 PvP/BGs.

Remember the rune cage meta? I was in < 50 BG's on a fully geared level 15 Sorc and I was going +30-0 consistently pulling 1-2M damage a game, without Met, shields or half of the base skills.

Under 50's BG's are unbalanced by the fact that any experienced players are usually competent with mechanics, completely geared through their own or a friends crafter and are often playing against complete beginners.

Under 50s BG's can safely be ignored as a problem imo.

The difference is you have to make a conscientious effort to do those things (I have friends in the game, so that they could do exactly that). Not have them just "given" to you upon character creation.

Do you see the difference?

One requires some effort, sacrifice, time spent on character creation.

The other is a handout.

If you want something, work for it, don't just get it handed to you.

I get given 1100 Champion points upon character creation, a shared bank full of food/potions/whatever, +XX million gold to buy whatever I want and so on.. The end result is that I am stronger with more advantages upon character creation and with that, will be levelling significantly faster than someone else.

I earned those CP on another character, should I have to collect them all again? I earned master crafter on another character, should I be not be allowed to craft my new character gear, potions, enchants or foods that others don't have access to?

If you answer no to any of those then ask yourself why Skyshards or lorebooks can't be shared.

I don't know what the damage, mitigation and recovery benefits are from those things I mentioned above but they're SIGNIFICANTLY more advantageous than a few skill points and a couple passives.

I got my traits researched and earned CP on my main the same way I collected skyshards and lorebooks on it - Time invested.
In that sense, I don't see the difference - Why are CP and Skyshards different?

I'm aware master crafting isn't globally shared across my characters but it doesn't need to be due to the fact you have a shared bank, which in essence, makes it global.

What you already have is the compromise (with shared CP, shared bank, shared gear)... The compromise, in my opinion, is already fair enough (overpowered with CP... overland is a joke) so why do you feel the incessant need to ask for even more?

For things with character progression and character power, you essentially have equal numbers that are account bound and that are character bound. THAT IS A PRETTY DAMN GOOD COMPROMISE already...

Items, such as gold, master writs, etc... are earned based on a characters individual progression, not the accounts (they use achievements to measure motif knowledge, etc...) If you made that account bound, along with the skyshards/skill points, there will be more crafting, more master writs, etc... further eroding the value of those crafts... it could affect the economy of the game in a drastic way.

The Devs of games, spends tons of time to determine what can and can't happen, what could effect the economy, power, balance of a game.

If, after 5 years, they haven't touched this, or made even a single mention of looking at it... there must be a really good reason for it... and that's probably because it would be game-breaking in some way.

I don't disagree that CP makes you OP at low levels.

"I'm aware master crafting isn't globally shared across my characters but it doesn't need to be due to the fact you have a shared bank, which in essence, makes it global." - If that were to be shared, master writs as you said, may just cause a few prices to go down, I'm not disputing that.

I'm disputing why we're putting collectables into character bound when they only take time, regardless of what level or class you're on and your knowledge of that class or game in general - Save character bound things for feats of skill that require you to understand your character - Raid titles etc;

If you think the devs spent a tonne of time determining what can and what can't happen in regards to the games balance then don't you believe we would have no CP sharing at all pre-level 50?

In 5 years they haven't touched it granted; However, in the meantime and I won't go too deep here as I'm sure you're aware, they've added insane proc sets, mechanics that bypass mitigation and have consistently implemented a bunch of other changes that affected balance and the economy massively. I don't think they have these conversations or as much depth as you think.

BNOC · January 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

Please try this. Tell us here how many skill points you need for a build, and then run around Tamriel collecting skyshards until you have all those skill points. Then tell us what level you got to, because you most definitely won't be level 1 anymore.

Haha.. I mean, everyone was aware that you'd get a few levels from discovery experience but it's the premise.

Runschei · January 2019

To be honest this is the main reason I spend a good 95% of my playtime on only two of my nine characters. I just cannot get myself to run around like a bot to collect lorebooks and skyshards because it is so time consuming and braindead as you can make it.

TheBonesXXX · January 2019

klowdy1 wrote: »

No. I will go one further, and say make CP individual. Knowing how to function decently with a stam DK does not prepare you to play a magblade, so why do you get to start so far along with your magblade alt?

I rather CP be removed then ever see it individual again.

FlopsyPrince · January 2019

Amazing. This same "but you are giving it away if you don't make every alt go through the grind" is what drove me from WoW several years back.

I am all for grinding, especially quests. It will take me a long time to go through all the game has to offer, but having to play next to my computer with the skyshard locations up in a browser window is idiotic and does not help keep things enjoyable. Playing the game is what makes things enjoyable, not grinding through the same things with multiple characters.

The point that I get CP (up to about 240 for me now) on all characters is a strong argument for making the same on lorebooks and shards account-wide. Having waypoints would be a significant help as well, though some of that can be mediated by taking advantage of guild rosters.

The other claim that "I ground it out and so should you" is not smart overall and is a good way to push altoholics away.

The PS4 version doesn't have the addon option to put many things on the map as well, making the grind even worse, even with having a computer browser window nearby when playing.

More things should be shown on the map as well: Skyshards, Lore books, Survey locations, Treasures, etc. Why can I not have them on the PS4 if they are on the PC via addons?

Yeah, I know that some of you walked to school uphill both ways, in the snow, but we are no longer in that age and keeping the focus on playing the game, not redoing stupid stuff should be the point. Shouting "NO" lacks much in the way of solid thought.

FlopsyPrince · January 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

Please try this. Tell us here how many skill points you need for a build, and then run around Tamriel collecting skyshards until you have all those skill points. Then tell us what level you got to, because you most definitely won't be level 1 anymore.

I am not sure what the point of this is. I would rather play the game to level than hunt skyshard locations, but I find that I have had to hunt several to at least be able to find the raw mats in the wild (with those lighting skills) with new characters. That kept me from playing quests and instead focusing on finding things.

Exploration can be fun the first time. It rapidly gets tedious and you can never recreate the initial rush of exploring new places, so don't force it as a grind.

tmbrinks · January 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Amazing. This same "but you are giving it away if you don't make every alt go through the grind" is what drove me from WoW several years back.

I am all for grinding, especially quests. It will take me a long time to go through all the game has to offer, but having to play next to my computer with the skyshard locations up in a browser window is idiotic and does not help keep things enjoyable. Playing the game is what makes things enjoyable, not grinding through the same things with multiple characters.

The point that I get CP (up to about 240 for me now) on all characters is a strong argument for making the same on lorebooks and shards account-wide. Having waypoints would be a significant help as well, though some of that can be mediated by taking advantage of guild rosters.

The other claim that "I ground it out and so should you" is not smart overall and is a good way to push altoholics away.

The PS4 version doesn't have the addon option to put many things on the map as well, making the grind even worse, even with having a computer browser window nearby when playing.

More things should be shown on the map as well: Skyshards, Lore books, Survey locations, Treasures, etc. Why can I not have them on the PS4 if they are on the PC via addons?

Yeah, I know that some of you walked to school uphill both ways, in the snow, but we are no longer in that age and keeping the focus on playing the game, not redoing stupid stuff should be the point. Shouting "NO" lacks much in the way of solid thought.

If you have read the other statements, you would have seen that there is almost universal agreement that the addons for showing Skyshard locations as well as Lorebooks should be available in the base game UI for consoles, with the option to turn that on or off as you please.

xan4silkb14_ESO · January 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Again, you're assuming everyone wants it handed to them.

You can have more than enough skillpoints (which is why skyshards are such a concern) without every picking up a single shard (beyond the tutorial one, for those that wish to get picky). Base alliance war skills go pretty quick. Undaunted 9 in less than 25 hours. Basic guild skills in a handful of hours, as well.

Nothing saying you can't work on an alt, or alts over time. This is how most have ended up with 15 (or more). You don't have to be endgame ready the same day you create a new character.

I've stated it before, you can casual your way to fully functional in ~ 100 hours. How far back do you honestly expect it to be dialed back? What's your "Ready in X hours" goal?

Actually, nobody here is suggesting everyone wants it handed to them, that's where the toggle or map markers that have been suggested by so many come in to it.

I know you can do the math but you're talking about 1500 hours (62.5 days) those people have spent just getting characters up to speed, doing the same thing over and over. What a joke.
It takes like 2-4 hours to get a character to level 50 so today they'd only need to spend 30-60 hours levelling those 15 characters (Which in itself is less than your estimate of getting a single character up to speed) Again, what a joke.

I imagine whoever said 90% probably don't want to have to do that is pretty bang on the money.

Sky shards, lorebooks and other collectables are literally run-and-grab, no content involved, no minimum requirements, no skill; Just an unacceptable amount of time.

Why are you against a toggle on collectables? How does it affect you if someone knows where collectables are on the maps or has 150 skill points at level 1? As in, what is your actual problem with it, why are you fighting against it? I'm struggling to actually understand your issue.

It's a simple QOL change.

Just out of interest: Would you agree that we should remove all addons from PC, including these markers, auction house addons and all the rest that provide equally simple QOL help to players?

That's the top addons, in order: Skyshard locations, Lorebook locations, Crafting & trait tracker, Node maps, Detailed combat metrics (Not just SCT), Not entirely sure what the map rebuild is for (Vortan), A UI and Quest locations.

“It takes 2-4 hours”
It took me 3-4 MONTHS to get my main to level 30

I'm a filthy casual and I have almost gotten my 3rd character to level 50 since I started 8 months ago. 2 of those are almost entirely leveled through PvP. I don't know how much you play on average per day, but as has been said before IRL time does not equate to play time. Some days I'll play for several hours, and sometimes I'm on vacation and log 0 time. I only use the xp scrolls on my characters that have passed level 50 to help gather CP. So if it took you 3-4 months to get your main to level 30, I can only assume you either don't have a lot of IRL time to play, or you have 1 or more other characters you are playing at the same time.

Tetrafy · January 2019

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Because it changes the game.

Right now, if you are just leveling a character, you cannot unlock all the skills as you open them up. You have to pick and choose which ones are most important to your characters' progression.

But with what is proposed, and the infusion of 143 skill points upon the launch of a character, is the ability to unlock everything, AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE (for those who are going to scream "YOU CAN'T UNLOCK EVERYTHING ANYWAYS AS YOU LEVEL") You will still be stronger, at a lower level, and able to do more than other counterparts at a lower level. You will have more passives unlocked, you will have more flexibility in skills.

No it doesn't.

I like the added "just levelling a character" - If you take that away I could easily reply by saying that I can go and collect every skyshard and lorebook, pre-levelling on a level 1 and purchase/morph skills and passives as quickly I get them with plenty to spare - Time to gather collectables doesn't change with your level and you do inevitably have to do it in some way.

So, should we stop players collecting sky shards, lore books and whatever before level 50? Otherwise they are inherently more powerful than their counterparts at low level, especially if they've put the hours in to get things like Meteor.

tmbrinks wrote: »

It will completely unbalance under 50 PvP/BGs.

Remember the rune cage meta? I was in < 50 BG's on a fully geared level 15 Sorc and I was going +30-0 consistently pulling 1-2M damage a game, without Met, shields or half of the base skills.

Under 50's BG's are unbalanced by the fact that any experienced players are usually competent with mechanics, completely geared through their own or a friends crafter and are often playing against complete beginners.

Under 50s BG's can safely be ignored as a problem imo.

The difference is you have to make a conscientious effort to do those things (I have friends in the game, so that they could do exactly that). Not have them just "given" to you upon character creation.

Do you see the difference?

One requires some effort, sacrifice, time spent on character creation.

The other is a handout.

If you want something, work for it, don't just get it handed to you.

I get given 1100 Champion points upon character creation, a shared bank full of food/potions/whatever, +XX million gold to buy whatever I want and so on.. The end result is that I am stronger with more advantages upon character creation and with that, will be levelling significantly faster than someone else.

I earned those CP on another character, should I have to collect them all again? I earned master crafter on another character, should I be not be allowed to craft my new character gear, potions, enchants or foods that others don't have access to?

If you answer no to any of those then ask yourself why Skyshards or lorebooks can't be shared.

I don't know what the damage, mitigation and recovery benefits are from those things I mentioned above but they're SIGNIFICANTLY more advantageous than a few skill points and a couple passives.

I got my traits researched and earned CP on my main the same way I collected skyshards and lorebooks on it - Time invested.
In that sense, I don't see the difference - Why are CP and Skyshards different?

I'm aware master crafting isn't globally shared across my characters but it doesn't need to be due to the fact you have a shared bank, which in essence, makes it global.

Exactly.

Tetrafy · January 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Amazing. This same "but you are giving it away if you don't make every alt go through the grind" is what drove me from WoW several years back.

I am all for grinding, especially quests. It will take me a long time to go through all the game has to offer, but having to play next to my computer with the skyshard locations up in a browser window is idiotic and does not help keep things enjoyable. Playing the game is what makes things enjoyable, not grinding through the same things with multiple characters.

The point that I get CP (up to about 240 for me now) on all characters is a strong argument for making the same on lorebooks and shards account-wide. Having waypoints would be a significant help as well, though some of that can be mediated by taking advantage of guild rosters.

The other claim that "I ground it out and so should you" is not smart overall and is a good way to push altoholics away.

The PS4 version doesn't have the addon option to put many things on the map as well, making the grind even worse, even with having a computer browser window nearby when playing.

More things should be shown on the map as well: Skyshards, Lore books, Survey locations, Treasures, etc. Why can I not have them on the PS4 if they are on the PC via addons?

Yeah, I know that some of you walked to school uphill both ways, in the snow, but we are no longer in that age and keeping the focus on playing the game, not redoing stupid stuff should be the point. Shouting "NO" lacks much in the way of solid thought.

If you have read the other statements, you would have seen that there is almost universal agreement that the addons for showing Skyshard locations as well as Lorebooks should be available in the base game UI for consoles, with the option to turn that on or off as you please.

This is the part zos should take note of regardless of outcome of this thread.

Tetrafy · January 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Amazing. This same "but you are giving it away if you don't make every alt go through the grind" is what drove me from WoW several years back.

I am all for grinding, especially quests. It will take me a long time to go through all the game has to offer, but having to play next to my computer with the skyshard locations up in a browser window is idiotic and does not help keep things enjoyable. Playing the game is what makes things enjoyable, not grinding through the same things with multiple characters.

The point that I get CP (up to about 240 for me now) on all characters is a strong argument for making the same on lorebooks and shards account-wide. Having waypoints would be a significant help as well, though some of that can be mediated by taking advantage of guild rosters.

The other claim that "I ground it out and so should you" is not smart overall and is a good way to push altoholics away.

The PS4 version doesn't have the addon option to put many things on the map as well, making the grind even worse, even with having a computer browser window nearby when playing.

More things should be shown on the map as well: Skyshards, Lore books, Survey locations, Treasures, etc. Why can I not have them on the PS4 if they are on the PC via addons?

Yeah, I know that some of you walked to school uphill both ways, in the snow, but we are no longer in that age and keeping the focus on playing the game, not redoing stupid stuff should be the point. Shouting "NO" lacks much in the way of solid thought.

Its the one thing I tip my hat to. FfXIV has the best collection hunting and chracter creation of an mmo ever.