AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Do you have a link to that video? I'd love to see what build uses Undaunted Infiltrator.

I mean its an easy mode build. I can still find the video but its IA, Undaunted, Grothdarr/Zaan

Rotation is basically lightning puddle, lightning WoE, swap bars, heavy attack, lightning clench, heavy attack, lightning clench. Restart

Keep Lightning form up and pop it either every 2nd or 3rd rotation

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

See I dont understand why IA....I dont see a point in the 5 piece bonus which applies minor vulnerability which a lightning staff and lightning wall pretty much give anyways so in my eyes its better to run something else

I still say that set has to be bugged.

Infiltrator should not be adding but about 1k DPS with the 5 pc, hardly enough to warrant losing a useful 4th pc buff. QE or any of a handful of other sets should be outperforming.

I get the results were tested, but the math simply does not add up, thus the expected bug.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

See I dont understand why IA....I dont see a point in the 5 piece bonus which applies minor vulnerability which a lightning staff and lightning wall pretty much give anyways so in my eyes its better to run something else

It also adds crit, and minor vulnerability uptime will be better with IA than with just lightning staff.

I realize that now. I quit like last January or so but have never been hugely into PvE but I knew basics so I never knew they nerfed how much just a lightning staff with WoE gave.

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Asking for a stubborn friend. Is IA worth even using on a sorc? Let alone an "easy mode" heavy attack magsorc build?

She wants to run Undaunted Infiltrator, IA and Grothdarr. (Saw a YouTube video)

Yeah, that's a @xynode, build. He does an insane amount of testing on his builds for performance, and yes, IA + UI works very nicely. Grothdarr is a fine choice for wrapping that up, though it's not the only option. Illambris or Valk both come up as alternatives.

The only downside is that she'll have to retrait her UI jewelry. Failing that she could run Spider Cultist or Netch in those slots, if she doesn't have Summerset.

But, the short answer is, yeah, that's not just viable, it's a pretty solid build.

starkerealm wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

Elegant does not work

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

See I dont understand why IA....I dont see a point in the 5 piece bonus which applies minor vulnerability which a lightning staff and lightning wall pretty much give anyways so in my eyes its better to run something else

IA is also a minor slayer set, and has additional damage on heavy attacks, this is on top of minor vulnerability. Wise Mage is worthless, but IA is a reasonable pick for DPS these days. You're probably thinking off-balance, which was never exactly the same thing.

You could be right. Still says shock damage proc's minor vulnerability

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Asking for a stubborn friend. Is IA worth even using on a sorc? Let alone an "easy mode" heavy attack magsorc build?

She wants to run Undaunted Infiltrator, IA and Grothdarr. (Saw a YouTube video)

Yeah, that's a @xynode, build. He does an insane amount of testing on his builds for performance, and yes, IA + UI works very nicely. Grothdarr is a fine choice for wrapping that up, though it's not the only option. Illambris or Valk both come up as alternatives.

The only downside is that she'll have to retrait her UI jewelry. Failing that she could run Spider Cultist or Netch in those slots, if she doesn't have Summerset.

But, the short answer is, yeah, that's not just viable, it's a pretty solid build.

And yea I saw Xynode testing out the build last night on pts and swapping the sets out and testing the new ones with the heavy attack build. I just dont think she should be running the build tho. Its meh, Its good for beginners but the damage still isnt that great. Especially when she gets the build or starts working on it she'll only be 160cp lmao

If you watch the actual build video, he still hits >40k with it.

I'd say that's better than 'meh,' even if the math doesn't indicate it should be possible.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Asking for a stubborn friend. Is IA worth even using on a sorc? Let alone an "easy mode" heavy attack magsorc build?

She wants to run Undaunted Infiltrator, IA and Grothdarr. (Saw a YouTube video)

Yeah, that's a @xynode, build. He does an insane amount of testing on his builds for performance, and yes, IA + UI works very nicely. Grothdarr is a fine choice for wrapping that up, though it's not the only option. Illambris or Valk both come up as alternatives.

The only downside is that she'll have to retrait her UI jewelry. Failing that she could run Spider Cultist or Netch in those slots, if she doesn't have Summerset.

But, the short answer is, yeah, that's not just viable, it's a pretty solid build.

And yea I saw Xynode testing out the build last night on pts and swapping the sets out and testing the new ones with the heavy attack build. I just dont think she should be running the build tho. Its meh, Its good for beginners but the damage still isnt that great. Especially when she gets the build or starts working on it she'll only be 160cp lmao

If you watch the actual build video, he still hits >40k with it.

I'd say that's better than 'meh,' even if the math doesn't indicate it should be possible.

I think at this point, we can take the guy who "does teh math" out behind the woodshed. His methodology is garbage, and his only recourse is, "but I'm a professional!"

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

Elegant does not work

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

See I dont understand why IA....I dont see a point in the 5 piece bonus which applies minor vulnerability which a lightning staff and lightning wall pretty much give anyways so in my eyes its better to run something else

IA is also a minor slayer set, and has additional damage on heavy attacks, this is on top of minor vulnerability. Wise Mage is worthless, but IA is a reasonable pick for DPS these days. You're probably thinking off-balance, which was never exactly the same thing.

You could be right. Still says shock damage proc's minor vulnerability

Went and looked it up. This is what I get for not running mag characters. Yes, Lightning damage can proc minor vulnerability for 4 seconds. It cannot proc off your light or heavy with a shock staff, though. IA procs minor vulnerability on EVERY heavy attack for 10 seconds. Stick enough damage sources out there and you're probably correct, minor vulnerability isn't as huge as I was thinking. However, within it's context, having 100% uptime on minor vulnerability is still nice. Especially given the proc chances to apply it passively from the damage type are pretty low. With a shock enchantment, you're talking 20% proc chance, which is reasonable, except that is the most likely proc source. Stuff like Liquid Lightning has ~5% chance to proc Minor Vulnerability. So, with that in mind... yeah, IA will put it on there and keep it there. You can force it to apply with force shock and an asylum staff, but at that point, we're talking about your active ability AND a unique weapon breaking your 5/5/2. As opposed to a potentially useful set.

IA isn't a panacea, it's not the best out there, but it is a solid set. Now, I say that, but I mostly run it on tanks because it amuses me.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Asking for a stubborn friend. Is IA worth even using on a sorc? Let alone an "easy mode" heavy attack magsorc build?

She wants to run Undaunted Infiltrator, IA and Grothdarr. (Saw a YouTube video)

Yeah, that's a @xynode, build. He does an insane amount of testing on his builds for performance, and yes, IA + UI works very nicely. Grothdarr is a fine choice for wrapping that up, though it's not the only option. Illambris or Valk both come up as alternatives.

The only downside is that she'll have to retrait her UI jewelry. Failing that she could run Spider Cultist or Netch in those slots, if she doesn't have Summerset.

But, the short answer is, yeah, that's not just viable, it's a pretty solid build.

And yea I saw Xynode testing out the build last night on pts and swapping the sets out and testing the new ones with the heavy attack build. I just dont think she should be running the build tho. Its meh, Its good for beginners but the damage still isnt that great. Especially when she gets the build or starts working on it she'll only be 160cp lmao

If you watch the actual build video, he still hits >40k with it.

I'd say that's better than 'meh,' even if the math doesn't indicate it should be possible.

A couple caveats. Xy is one of the best DPS in the world. Just because he can pull 40k, don't expect that you will. However, the other side of this is, the build is tuned to be easy to run. This is a build that's designed to deliver effective, functional, damage for a player who is starting to tackle endgame content. It's not a build tuned around score runs, or absurdly high damage.

I still like IA, though; it's a solid workhorse set.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@starkerealm I'm not doubting the end results nor Xy's thoroughness. I do fear for the Math guy's well being.

That's fair. Even laudable.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'd just like it a whole lot more if certain things where more intuitive than they sometimes are.

(I don't doubt this one, but it still puzzles me.)

There's a lot of UI elements that are obtuse. I really wish there was more information presented to the player that fully explained what was modifying certain stats. I mean, ESO is complicated enough that the tooltips need tooltips sometimes.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I definitely get that there are in-practice results vs ideal test environment ones. It's nice when there's some kind of consistency in where to start. I guess it would also be helpful to 'see' why the differences between one player's parse and another's end up as diverse as they sometimes do.

Because ESO really is a player skill based game. Perfectly executing your rotation is exceedingly challenging in ESO, in contrast to most MMOs where maintaining a flawless rotation is fairly painless. There's a number of factors that contribute to this. The lack of tab targeting, means you have to stay on target, the entire weaving and animation canceling systems, and this before you consider things like build and gear.

Except, the weave and cancel system is where the vast majority of your performance as a player comes in. That's what determines if your DPS is good or terrible. Not, if you copied a build from someone else. There are basics, like, "put your AoEs down," and "keep your buffs up," but the bread and butter of performance is if you can hit your cancels.

Indeed. I'm a stubborn one, liking to understand the "why," not just the how. I'm mid tier, in regard to DPS.

It never ceases to amaze me how the Xynode's, the Liko's, and the LZH's out there can put the same thing in their hands and double what another can do, all while baking a soufflé , and writing the intro to their 3rd novel.

r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Asking for a stubborn friend. Is IA worth even using on a sorc? Let alone an "easy mode" heavy attack magsorc build?

She wants to run Undaunted Infiltrator, IA and Grothdarr. (Saw a YouTube video)

Yeah, that's a @xynode, build. He does an insane amount of testing on his builds for performance, and yes, IA + UI works very nicely. Grothdarr is a fine choice for wrapping that up, though it's not the only option. Illambris or Valk both come up as alternatives.

The only downside is that she'll have to retrait her UI jewelry. Failing that she could run Spider Cultist or Netch in those slots, if she doesn't have Summerset.

But, the short answer is, yeah, that's not just viable, it's a pretty solid build.

And yea I saw Xynode testing out the build last night on pts and swapping the sets out and testing the new ones with the heavy attack build. I just dont think she should be running the build tho. Its meh, Its good for beginners but the damage still isnt that great. Especially when she gets the build or starts working on it she'll only be 160cp lmao

If you watch the actual build video, he still hits >40k with it.

I'd say that's better than 'meh,' even if the math doesn't indicate it should be possible.

I think at this point, we can take the guy who "does teh math" out behind the woodshed. His methodology is garbage, and his only recourse is, "but I'm a professional!"

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

Elegant does not work

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

See I dont understand why IA....I dont see a point in the 5 piece bonus which applies minor vulnerability which a lightning staff and lightning wall pretty much give anyways so in my eyes its better to run something else

IA is also a minor slayer set, and has additional damage on heavy attacks, this is on top of minor vulnerability. Wise Mage is worthless, but IA is a reasonable pick for DPS these days. You're probably thinking off-balance, which was never exactly the same thing.

You could be right. Still says shock damage proc's minor vulnerability

Went and looked it up. This is what I get for not running mag characters. Yes, Lightning damage can proc minor vulnerability for 4 seconds. It cannot proc off your light or heavy with a shock staff, though. IA procs minor vulnerability on EVERY heavy attack for 10 seconds. Stick enough damage sources out there and you're probably correct, minor vulnerability isn't as huge as I was thinking. However, within it's context, having 100% uptime on minor vulnerability is still nice. Especially given the proc chances to apply it passively from the damage type are pretty low. With a shock enchantment, you're talking 20% proc chance, which is reasonable, except that is the most likely proc source. Stuff like Liquid Lightning has ~5% chance to proc Minor Vulnerability. So, with that in mind... yeah, IA will put it on there and keep it there. You can force it to apply with force shock and an asylum staff, but at that point, we're talking about your active ability AND a unique weapon breaking your 5/5/2. As opposed to a potentially useful set.

IA isn't a panacea, it's not the best out there, but it is a solid set. Now, I say that, but I mostly run it on tanks because it amuses me.

I thought I read somewhere that some bosses (maybe alot?) could only have vulnerability applied by using IA. That they were immune to other sources? I may be mistaken though.

The main source used to be via Shock Staff, through off balance, through Wall of Elements, IIRC. (Now it can come from shock damage, usually a shock glyph on an infused staff, making IA redundant.)

Since they changed how off balance worked (and effectively gave it a cooldown), that may be what you're thinking of. Since IA does not require off balance, it's a guaranteed source for minor vulnerability. It fits in perfectly with a Heavy attack build, since that's what you're doing anyway.

r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Asking for a stubborn friend. Is IA worth even using on a sorc? Let alone an "easy mode" heavy attack magsorc build?

She wants to run Undaunted Infiltrator, IA and Grothdarr. (Saw a YouTube video)

Yeah, that's a @xynode, build. He does an insane amount of testing on his builds for performance, and yes, IA + UI works very nicely. Grothdarr is a fine choice for wrapping that up, though it's not the only option. Illambris or Valk both come up as alternatives.

The only downside is that she'll have to retrait her UI jewelry. Failing that she could run Spider Cultist or Netch in those slots, if she doesn't have Summerset.

But, the short answer is, yeah, that's not just viable, it's a pretty solid build.

And yea I saw Xynode testing out the build last night on pts and swapping the sets out and testing the new ones with the heavy attack build. I just dont think she should be running the build tho. Its meh, Its good for beginners but the damage still isnt that great. Especially when she gets the build or starts working on it she'll only be 160cp lmao

If you watch the actual build video, he still hits >40k with it.

I'd say that's better than 'meh,' even if the math doesn't indicate it should be possible.

I think at this point, we can take the guy who "does teh math" out behind the woodshed. His methodology is garbage, and his only recourse is, "but I'm a professional!"

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

Elegant does not work

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

IA is good for a heavy attack build, Undaunted Infiltrator isn't. Use Elegance instead. Or better yet, go double pet and use Necropotence.

See I dont understand why IA....I dont see a point in the 5 piece bonus which applies minor vulnerability which a lightning staff and lightning wall pretty much give anyways so in my eyes its better to run something else

IA is also a minor slayer set, and has additional damage on heavy attacks, this is on top of minor vulnerability. Wise Mage is worthless, but IA is a reasonable pick for DPS these days. You're probably thinking off-balance, which was never exactly the same thing.

You could be right. Still says shock damage proc's minor vulnerability

Went and looked it up. This is what I get for not running mag characters. Yes, Lightning damage can proc minor vulnerability for 4 seconds. It cannot proc off your light or heavy with a shock staff, though. IA procs minor vulnerability on EVERY heavy attack for 10 seconds. Stick enough damage sources out there and you're probably correct, minor vulnerability isn't as huge as I was thinking. However, within it's context, having 100% uptime on minor vulnerability is still nice. Especially given the proc chances to apply it passively from the damage type are pretty low. With a shock enchantment, you're talking 20% proc chance, which is reasonable, except that is the most likely proc source. Stuff like Liquid Lightning has ~5% chance to proc Minor Vulnerability. So, with that in mind... yeah, IA will put it on there and keep it there. You can force it to apply with force shock and an asylum staff, but at that point, we're talking about your active ability AND a unique weapon breaking your 5/5/2. As opposed to a potentially useful set.

IA isn't a panacea, it's not the best out there, but it is a solid set. Now, I say that, but I mostly run it on tanks because it amuses me.

I thought I read somewhere that some bosses (maybe alot?) could only have vulnerability applied by using IA. That they were immune to other sources? I may be mistaken though.

The main source used to be via Shock Staff, through off balance, through Wall of Elements, IIRC. (Now it can come from shock damage, usually a shock glyph on an infused staff, making IA redundant.)

Since they changed how off balance worked (and effectively gave it a cooldown), that may be what you're thinking of. Since IA does not require off balance, it's a guaranteed source for minor vulnerability. It fits in perfectly with a Heavy attack build, since that's what you're doing anyway.

This is what I had read:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406821/is-inaflliable-aether-full-set-useless-now

@Dracane was correct when he wrote that. Enemies with lightning resistance would pick up immunity to the concussed effect. As far as I know, all examples of those resistances were removed with Summerset. (Specifically to avoid situations where a character might have a harder or easier time dealing with specific foes based on the elemental damage they're dealing, especially given that you have limited control over your elemental choices.)

Additionally, I wouldn't normally recommend IA on a healer; there are more valuable things they can slot.

starkerealm wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Asking for a stubborn friend. Is IA worth even using on a sorc? Let alone an "easy mode" heavy attack magsorc build?

She wants to run Undaunted Infiltrator, IA and Grothdarr. (Saw a YouTube video)

Yeah, that's a @xynode, build. He does an insane amount of testing on his builds for performance, and yes, IA + UI works very nicely. Grothdarr is a fine choice for wrapping that up, though it's not the only option. Illambris or Valk both come up as alternatives.

The only downside is that she'll have to retrait her UI jewelry. Failing that she could run Spider Cultist or Netch in those slots, if she doesn't have Summerset.

But, the short answer is, yeah, that's not just viable, it's a pretty solid build.

And yea I saw Xynode testing out the build last night on pts and swapping the sets out and testing the new ones with the heavy attack build. I just dont think she should be running the build tho. Its meh, Its good for beginners but the damage still isnt that great. Especially when she gets the build or starts working on it she'll only be 160cp lmao

If you watch the actual build video, he still hits >40k with it.

I'd say that's better than 'meh,' even if the math doesn't indicate it should be possible.

A couple caveats. Xy is one of the best DPS in the world. Just because he can pull 40k, don't expect that you will. However, the other side of this is, the build is tuned to be easy to run. This is a build that's designed to deliver effective, functional, damage for a player who is starting to tackle endgame content. It's not a build tuned around score runs, or absurdly high damage.

I still like IA, though; it's a solid workhorse set.

Nah. The beauty of the Easy Sorc build is exactly that - it’s easy. I run my main as an ES with the exception that I’m a Breton and not a Thalmor, and I still hit 38k - as an old lazy guy who sucks at rotations and has the twitch reflexes of a half-thawed halibut.

With the skills, passives, sets, and dead simple heavy attack rotation I can STILL hit decent DPS and I almost never run out of resources.

As always, YMMV.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯