People who say argonian passives on live are op, why is that?
Oathunbound
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I simply have a question about the perception of argonian passives being OP. My main and 2 pvp toons i have currently are argonians, not because they are OP, in fact i made them back when they were considered the worst race to do any role at all. I know when morrowind dropped and the sustain in general too a major hit that the potion passive really took hold and made them more relevant, yet here is where i get confused. In PvP i feel how the potion passive help me and can agree that at times it could feel/be OP and i figured either a nerf or complete removal of it but that's a PvP perspective. In PvE the sustain was nice but overall they did not have anything to help their dps other then their 3% max mag. I can see the argument that their extra hp lets them go full stam/mag enchants therefore they can get more damage, but in the was the game is now with most pve fights being either one shots or paltry damage, the extra hp is nice but mostly irrelevant, unless your a tank then the more the merrier. Their other passives the deal with healing made them great at healing and better self healing.
So with these observations i can see the argument in PvP that the needed some sort of tweak/nerf but in PvE they had support locked down but nothing that offers any extra damage outside of the max mag bonus. I know the racials only truly matter in people attempting being at the top of the trail leader boards but i find it strange that argos got nothing but a real shaft to the one role they were good at and not even a small bone thrown their way for damage (unless you count the 1000 max mag a boost which is nice if it was higher then the 3% on live would get you). I'm surprised they didn't get some stam thrown in or a small wep damage/spell damage bonus considering that their own ESO descrption makes it out that they are versatile in combat. I see that the potion passive helps no matter the build but only in sustain. So if you think argonian racials are op as they are now how so? I'm genuinely curious as to others point of view as to why they are views as OP when i can see that they can have some advantages in certain situations but overall not op.
So with these observations i can see the argument in PvP that the needed some sort of tweak/nerf but in PvE they had support locked down but nothing that offers any extra damage outside of the max mag bonus. I know the racials only truly matter in people attempting being at the top of the trail leader boards but i find it strange that argos got nothing but a real shaft to the one role they were good at and not even a small bone thrown their way for damage (unless you count the 1000 max mag a boost which is nice if it was higher then the 3% on live would get you). I'm surprised they didn't get some stam thrown in or a small wep damage/spell damage bonus considering that their own ESO descrption makes it out that they are versatile in combat. I see that the potion passive helps no matter the build but only in sustain. So if you think argonian racials are op as they are now how so? I'm genuinely curious as to others point of view as to why they are views as OP when i can see that they can have some advantages in certain situations but overall not op.
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Saphayla✭✭✭I can't say I've ever seen a meta DPS that was an Argonian; DPS is typically dominated by Altmer/Breton for Magicka and Redguard/Khajiit for Stamina. Argonian is, however, the best for Healing and Tanking, which technically means that, if everyone followed the meta, 50% of all Dungeons and 25% of all Trials would be Argonian. Considering Argonian makes up 10% of the available races, that's not very nice.3 -
Oathunbound✭✭✭I can't say I've ever seen a meta DPS that was an Argonian; DPS is typically dominated by Altmer/Breton for Magicka and Redguard/Khajiit for Stamina. Argonian is, however, the best for Healing and Tanking, which technically means that, if everyone followed the meta, 50% of all Dungeons and 25% of all Trials would be Argonian. Considering Argonian makes up 10% of the available races, that's not very nice.
I see how if the meta was strictly held to then yes, there would be 2 in every dungeon. However support role are least affected by racials so the meta is a bit more loose there, I think its the PvP vs PvE balance issue that is preventing them from getting any sort of DPS/resource boost added to their racials (minus the mag which already was there) because a boost in tandum with the potion passive would make Argos stand out much more in PvP while only making them mediocre in a pve dps role (end game that is)0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s more of a PvP thing. I don’t believe they’re op though if anything the other races should’ve followed suit if zos intention was to make race feel less important. What made argonian good excluding the resourceful passive is the fact you could swap from stam to mag at will and do just fine. The new changes seem to want to follow that approach. Which is why it’s odd argonian received nothing but nerfs.5 -
Oathunbound✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »It’s more of a PvP thing. I don’t believe they’re op though if anything the other races should’ve followed suit if zos intention was to make race feel less important. What made argonian good excluding the resourceful passive is the fact you could swap from stam to mag at will and do just fine. The new changes seem to want to follow that approach. Which is why it’s odd argonian received nothing but nerfs.
I think they see the potion passive as universally good for any class/role, And it is, but it only affects sustain. While sustain is important it can be reasonably managed without it. I think this is mainly a case of balancing for PvP screws PvE balance and we get stuck with flat nerfs rather the a new approach to their passives. I was honesty expecting the resourceful passive removed and replaced and honestly would not be upset of they did just that for more permanent buffs rather then a trigger on pots3 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭Currently you get 4620 magicka, health and stamina back when you drink a potion, which should happen every 45 seconds that makes about 102.5 magicka, stamina and health per second (--> 205 regen). If you compare that to the other races it is a very high value. A high elf for example would need to have roughly 2k base regeneration for this amount, which many people will not be willing to use because that means running around with at least 3k reg (actually more like 3.5k) in the end. And this is only for one attribute. Nearly no healer or tank runs that much reg in a trial or dungeon and in PvP the other ressources are even more important making the passive only stronger as you already noticed. Also you get 5% more healing received and 5% more healing done which is also incredible for Tanks, Healers and PvP in general.
Now imagine using cooldown reduction enchantments to make that passive even stronger. Personally I believe them not to be OP currently but definitely overly strong compared with the alternatives.2 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭Oathunbound wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »It’s more of a PvP thing. I don’t believe they’re op though if anything the other races should’ve followed suit if zos intention was to make race feel less important. What made argonian good excluding the resourceful passive is the fact you could swap from stam to mag at will and do just fine. The new changes seem to want to follow that approach. Which is why it’s odd argonian received nothing but nerfs.
I think they see the potion passive as universally good for any class/role, And it is, but it only affects sustain. While sustain is important it can be reasonably managed without it. I think this is mainly a case of balancing for PvP screws PvE balance and we get stuck with flat nerfs rather the a new approach to their passives. I was honesty expecting the resourceful passive removed and replaced and honestly would not be upset of they did just that for more permanent buffs rather then a trigger on pots
I can agree with you here. But even with the changes I believe argonians to be in a good spot. It could be a little better though and it certainly feels bad for almost everyone who uses an argonian (because they only see nerfs)2 -
Oathunbound✭✭✭Temeraire507 wrote: »Currently you get 4620 magicka, health and stamina back when you drink a potion, which should happen every 45 seconds that makes about 102.5 magicka, stamina and health per second (--> 205 regen). If you compare that to the other races it is a very high value. A high elf for example would need to have roughly 2k base regeneration for this amount, which many people will not be willing to use because that means running around with at least 3k reg (actually more like 3.5k) in the end. And this is only for one attribute. Nearly no healer or tank runs that much reg in a trial or dungeon and in PvP the other ressources are even more important making the passive only stronger as you already noticed. Also you get 5% more healing received and 5% more healing done which is also incredible for Tanks, Healers and PvP in general.
Now imagine using cooldown reduction enchantments to make that passive even stronger. Personally I believe them not to be OP currently but definitely overly strong compared with the alternatives.
I agree completely. The potion passive is great for sustain and in PvP its noticeably more potent and the other passives synergize well together but not to the point of OP or broken. I'm just trying to see why some people perceive them to be OP and the nefs are either fine or don't go far enough.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's because not very many of them have played them vs other races and are judging by what they think they see in pvp or what they hear.
They are (soon to were) strong for tanking because of the combination of healing bonuses (getting nerfed), health bonus (getting nerfed) and potion passive (getting nerfed). This will let them still be acceptable at the role, but no longer BiS. This is fine IMO if they goal is to eliminate BiS all together and offer a few equal choices for races across a build. When all they did was rearrange the imbalance that was already there.
The BIGGER issue IMO is that looking at it from a PvE perspective - support bonuses are not as big a deal as DPS bonuses when you look at end game raiding. I tried some DPS builds with different races and just wasn't happy not playing Argonian b/c I liked the race, so I changed. You can see a HUUUUGE difference in your power level (i.e. numbers) when I went from Altmer and Dunmer DPS to Argonian on the exact same builds/gear/CP etc. No matter how good you are, you will be weaker. But in support, there are no hard numbers to say "I do X DPS" - all that matters is can you get the job done. And you can get the job done with any race. You might personally notice a little more work if you had an Altmer tank over an Argonian, but if you got the job done, your team would not. Can't say that about DPS with everything else being the same.
What am I getting at? That I don't mind the fact they wanted to nerf something like the potion passive, it was strong, though I didn't feel too strong, but fine, second nerf incoming now to that passive. I can see the argument for it at least. But I don't think they needed to also have the health bonus cut and the healing recieved cut. If they are cutting everything for them across the board, then I think they would have deserved something to help them in a damage build. Nothing that would make them equal tier to races that are all DPS bonuses and no support bonuses, but a little to make them at least have something to offer.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC5 -
Oathunbound✭✭✭It's because not very many of them have played them vs other races and are judging by what they think they see in pvp or what they hear.
They are (soon to were) strong for tanking because of the combination of healing bonuses (getting nerfed), health bonus (getting nerfed) and potion passive (getting nerfed). This will let them still be acceptable at the role, but no longer BiS. This is fine IMO if they goal is to eliminate BiS all together and offer a few equal choices for races across a build. When all they did was rearrange the imbalance that was already there.
The BIGGER issue IMO is that looking at it from a PvE perspective - support bonuses are not as big a deal as DPS bonuses when you look at end game raiding. I tried some DPS builds with different races and just wasn't happy not playing Argonian b/c I liked the race, so I changed. You can see a HUUUUGE difference in your power level (i.e. numbers) when I went from Altmer and Dunmer DPS to Argonian on the exact same builds/gear/CP etc. No matter how good you are, you will be weaker. But in support, there are no hard numbers to say "I do X DPS" - all that matters is can you get the job done. And you can get the job done with any race. You might personally notice a little more work if you had an Altmer tank over an Argonian, but if you got the job done, your team would not. Can't say that about DPS with everything else being the same.
What am I getting at? That I don't mind the fact they wanted to nerf something like the potion passive, it was strong, though I didn't feel too strong, but fine, second nerf incoming now to that passive. I can see the argument for it at least. But I don't think they needed to also have the health bonus cut and the healing recieved cut. If they are cutting everything for them across the board, then I think they would have deserved something to help them in a damage build. Nothing that would make them equal tier to races that are all DPS bonuses and no support bonuses, but a little to make them at least have something to offer.
I feel the same and think that when I ask people why, I mainly get second hand quotes from people who never played argo. I'm like you in that I just don't feel right playing anything other than argo because I've always liked and played them in every ES game. But the fact that every single aspect of them got nerfed with 0 compensation seems overboard. I think as long as the potion passive remains we will never get a damage boost added because it will make Argos bis in PvP for virtually any build ( depending on which damage stat got boosted)2 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭Oathunbound wrote: »Temeraire507 wrote: »Currently you get 4620 magicka, health and stamina back when you drink a potion, which should happen every 45 seconds that makes about 102.5 magicka, stamina and health per second (--> 205 regen). If you compare that to the other races it is a very high value. A high elf for example would need to have roughly 2k base regeneration for this amount, which many people will not be willing to use because that means running around with at least 3k reg (actually more like 3.5k) in the end. And this is only for one attribute. Nearly no healer or tank runs that much reg in a trial or dungeon and in PvP the other ressources are even more important making the passive only stronger as you already noticed. Also you get 5% more healing received and 5% more healing done which is also incredible for Tanks, Healers and PvP in general.
Now imagine using cooldown reduction enchantments to make that passive even stronger. Personally I believe them not to be OP currently but definitely overly strong compared with the alternatives.
I agree completely. The potion passive is great for sustain and in PvP its noticeably more potent and the other passives synergize well together but not to the point of OP or broken. I'm just trying to see why some people perceive them to be OP and the nefs are either fine or don't go far enough.
In a simplified scenario I see the following groups and reasons:
People are trolling. Maybe the topic is not very serious to them, so they want to have some fun or they are bored and hope for someone to react. Those people are unlikely to stop behaving like they do.
People like to blame their failures on someone else. It is easier than actually accepting it might be your own fault to be weaker than an argonian. Those people are very unlikely to stop seeing argonian as OP.
People blindly follow others beliefs.
For some people's builds sustain may be of importance to a point where argonians are the only viable option. To those the changes may be good or bad depending on their view and if they already play argonian or chose another race knowing it won't perform as well as argonian.
Their calculations show them different results than ours do to us.
Then you have the meta bound people where 0.01% better equals the only viable option. Those are likely competitive raiders battling for every single leaderboard point. This group is hard to evaluate because they are likely to test the s**t out of PTS to see every little difference between the races.
The last group I see are the meta followers that believe in the meta to a point where they deny everything else to be viable in any kind. Those guys either like the meta or not. Those who like it may either stick to the opinion of a great figure in the community or may be mad about every little nerf. Those who dislike it are likely to call for nerfs until the metarace is gone for good.
I don't assume the right to put anyone in either category or judge anyone without a good reason to do so. Every group is understandable to some point. My beliefs are not universal or superior to the ones of anyone else and this is not the best place for a discussion of philosophyEdited by Temeraire507 on January 19, 2019 10:03PM1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I think the perception issue comes from PvP where anything that makes it harder to burn your opponent is hated. So even though they get nothing to help them do damage, the stuff they have that helps them in support is seen an a bigger deal than it is.
Again, we are talking about people assuming things from seeing someone they fight or hearing things and not playing the exact same builds on one vs another.
In playing some of the guys in pvp when I went from meta races to Argonian, you could see the power loss and only occasionally see the benefit gained from the support passives. Like I'd said, I could see the nerf coming to potion passive, but they should have gotten some stat bonus to both mag and stam and not just mag or like someone suggested, maybe add a damage bonus to the potion passive as well, like an extra 100 damage for 5 seconds or something.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Argonians are OPAF! Nerf now before it's too late!
(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I found it at gfycat.com (someone had a lot of fun modding Skyrim), but my point still stands 6 argonians taking on a hard mode vet trial boss dragon is way too OP and one of them is just standing around getting carried xD(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Argonians are "mathematically better". That means, when you add together everything they got, the sum is higher than other races.
The problem is "what they got" is not always "what they need". Its like one toon having a 250 bonus to weapon and magical damage, and other having 400 weapon damage and no magical damage. Mathematically, the first is better, because 250+250 is more than 400. But for all practical purposes, the second is actually better, because you gonna make him a stam toon and wipe the floor with the first one.1 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many of you guys said resourceful is too strong. But is it strong for real?
We all know why is this strong. Because of infused potion cooldown enchant on jewelry. So what about to look at this thing and nerf this enchant rather than someone elses passive?
Should be major buffs reduced from 20% to 15% because of new altmer passive? Or breton with % spell cost passive because of spell cost enchants? Stacking buffs is always bad for ballance
Also this potion builds is only good on tanks. Sure, nerf whole race because on one role.
Dont blame race, problem is somewhere elseEdited by Anyron on January 20, 2019 6:09PM1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Problem is that meany people simply repeat what others have said. I am also 100% that many of those people have not played argonian that much.
Also people don't realise that main problem (and I can really grasp why that people seems to overlook this, yes even top tier players and class reps - people that know this game better than ZOS does seems to overlook this) is that argonian potion passive is not direct reason why they can have very good sustain.
You see, argonians only became very popular and often used in PvP after Summerset update... and what we got with Summerset ? You guessed it - jewellery crafting.
In short, 3 pcs of Infused jewellery with potion speed enchants allow to reduce potion cooldown by 24 seconds. This means that you can drink potion every 21 seconds, instead of 45 seconds. This effectively DOUBLES the argonians potion passive.
That is the secret.
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Oathunbound✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Problem is that meany people simply repeat what others have said. I am also 100% that many of those people have not played argonian that much.
Also people don't realise that main problem (and I can really grasp why that people seems to overlook this, yes even top tier players and class reps - people that know this game better than ZOS does seems to overlook this) is that argonian potion passive is not direct reason why they can have very good sustain.
You see, argonians only became very popular and often used in PvP after Summerset update... and what we got with Summerset ? You guessed it - jewellery crafting.
In short, 3 pcs of Infused jewellery with potion speed enchants allow to reduce potion cooldown by 24 seconds. This means that you can drink potion every 21 seconds, instead of 45 seconds. This effectively DOUBLES the argonians potion passive.
That is the secret.
Yea it seems the root of the perception is the summerset update and jewel crafting amplifying their passive further. I think I saw someone suggest that make it proc every 40 sec, the standard pot CD, and then give them something to compensate, that way the passive is still useful but can't be as hevaly boosted by infused jewelry.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People do the math and conclude that the potion passive amounts to regen levels far more generous than other passives provide to the pther races. This is fine and all when your chugging trash pots.
But its a much harder pill to swallow when people make that comparison while im over hear slaving away for expansive ass mats so i can craft actual potions that are crucial for pvp. As if the trade off isnt even a factor. I realize how that is relative and possibly bleeds into other issues outside of passive balance but still. Eso knew full well what they were doing whem they named that passive....
Im quite literally paying for the effectiveness of it.
Edited by exeeter702 on January 20, 2019 8:21PM0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »People do the math and conclude that the potion passive amounts to regen levels far more generous than other passives provide to the pther races. This is fine and all when your chugging trash pots.
But its a much harder pill to swallow when people make that comparison while im over hear slaving away for expansive ass mats so i can craft actual potions that are crucial for pvp. As if the trade off isnt even a factor. I realize how that is relative and possibly bleeds into other issues outside of passive balance but still. Eso knew full well what they were doing whem they named that passive....
Im quite literally paying for the effectiveness of it.
Far more generous than for other races??
(ALL RACES HERE HAVE ALSO +2K MAIN DPS STAT)
High elf
Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. =4600 over 48s
Wood elf
Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
Redguard
When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. = 8550 over 45s0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »People do the math and conclude that the potion passive amounts to regen levels far more generous than other passives provide to the pther races. This is fine and all when your chugging trash pots.
But its a much harder pill to swallow when people make that comparison while im over hear slaving away for expansive ass mats so i can craft actual potions that are crucial for pvp. As if the trade off isnt even a factor. I realize how that is relative and possibly bleeds into other issues outside of passive balance but still. Eso knew full well what they were doing whem they named that passive....
Im quite literally paying for the effectiveness of it.
Far more generous than for other races??
(ALL RACES HERE HAVE ALSO +2K MAIN DPS STAT)
High elf
Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. =4600 over 48s
Wood elf
Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
Redguard
When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. = 8550 over 45s
I was referring to the current live values....0
