People blame CP for the creep

I blame new introduced gear ... and they wont stop doing that

For me that cp thing is just a smoke screen

In things like level scaling and whatnot, the CP power creep is pretty obvious. The cp160 scaling in all of Tamriel was introduced with Tamriel, and the cap was only 561, only a couple patches when they did away with vet ranks and started raising the cap 501. And now that cap’s over 800. So yeah, I think it has a lot to do with the power creep. Hopefull the stop on raising the cap will help ease it.

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

In things like level scaling and whatnot, the CP power creep is pretty obvious. The cp160 scaling in all of Tamriel was introduced with Tamriel, and the cap was only 561, only a couple patches when they did away with vet ranks and started raising the cap 501. And now that cap’s over 800. So yeah, I think it has a lot to do with the power creep. Hopefull the stop on raising the cap will help ease it.

But at the same time they nerfed all the class abilities. You cannot compare anymore.

Edit:
Also the increase of health and resistance (18k from 9k) on monsters has been changed

Facefister wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't larger health pools on enemies counteract power creep?

Your average DD does like 10k dps with 810 CP, they would struggle even more.

Take out the glitching as the basis for damage dealing. Increase light attack values. Everyone complains about power creep but if the only issue to larger pools is low damage because a small perctange can glitch moves perhaps they should fix that and lay the foundation for high dps. Everyone on average should be able to hit average dps but a good rotation should increase that. Increase health pools problem solved. Doing it this way is just going to *** people off.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Being able to kill things instantly isn't the only form of power creep, especially in PVP, which is honestly where the power creep is at its worst, and so is what I'll be talking about.

The problem with CP is that due to the way everything is set up, it offers no meaningful choice between various aspects of your build. You can freely use CP to make up for certain aspects of your build that you've neglected, such as your damage, healing, mitigation, sustain, etc. This has led to players being able to rock 2 full 5-piece damage sets with either a damage or a utility monster set, buffed via CP, while being able to sustain adequately, heal indefinitely, take a ton of damage via both pure mitigation and extra health (often 3-4k more than non-CP, which is huge), on top of the "perks" available through CP.

Comparatively, in non-CP, you'd have to specifically build for each of these. In non-CP, I've noticed builds often balance themselves around three main aspects: damage, sustain, mitigation. By building for one, you're losing some of the other two. The most common setup in non-CP is a damage/sustain build, where you build for both damage and sustain, usually by using one 5-piece damage set, and another 5-piece sustain set. There's also damage/mitigation, which is what I'm experimenting with on my magDK, however you lose out on sustain, so you have to be careful with your magicka/stamina. And finally there's sustain/mitigation, which is typically found on healers and tanks, which obviously don't build for damage.

Builds are a lot more balanced in non-CP, with very important choices having to be made when building for non-CP. Each build has strengths and weaknesses, and you have to work around them, both as the user and the opponent.

If CP is going to be balanced, it has to offer meaningful choices when building your character. You should be able to pick between pure damage, pure sustain, pure mitigation, pure healing, or a mix.

See Im a cp player and started at low cp in the cp campaign I also played under 50 and no cp. No CP is so basic it's almost boring. I still do rather well with my niche build (stam dk). But good players will be good regardless. Yeah CP helps but it's such a minute amount imo. The amount of crying that goes on from the average player is astounding. Theres a reason the CP playlist is a ton more populated than non CP. I walk up to a team of 4 wearing Earthgore I'm not even going to bother, because I just know better.

Facefister wrote: »

Now we're blaming animation canceling? The majority of the DDs are bad, and when they get called out, they do all kinds of mental gymnastics about why their 10k dps is better than 40k dps.

Im saying it should be easier to average 40k dps and use animation cancelling to get 80k plus. Its backwards when cancelling is needed to hit 40k plus dps. Its funny top players complain about power creep and yet allow a system that really only benifits them to be on top. This is the first community I've been in where I think the elite are wrong. And that's coming from a top 200 1 percent Halo player.

There is no CP power creep anymore. Adding 30 more CP at cap is less than a 2% benefit because of heavy diminishing returns. It's just something people complain about on forums.

Latios wrote: »

I think no-CP PvP is just much worse than CP one. That’s mostly because game balancing is made with CP in mind.

The worst aspect about CP(and newer sets) is that old content gets dumb easy. They are rarely updated, while we get very strong sets and such. Maelstrom, which was hellish, is now a pie. As are trials that used to be much worse(like MoL, which may not be a pie, but is much easier than when it was released).

I mean old content should be easier as time goes on. Main reason being is people don't really play old content. On FFxiv we had extreme trials right and savage raids, recently they added a party finder option to do it at your ilevel because people just werent playing the content anymore and now people play old stuff for completions and still have the option to duty find old content at harder levels. Hey now VMA isn't that easy. Easier sure. You still can make mistakes and lose and get overwelmed. If anything VMA is the only chunk of content that has aged well even with CP increases.

Tetrafy wrote: »

Latios wrote: »

I think no-CP PvP is just much worse than CP one. That’s mostly because game balancing is made with CP in mind.

The worst aspect about CP(and newer sets) is that old content gets dumb easy. They are rarely updated, while we get very strong sets and such. Maelstrom, which was hellish, is now a pie. As are trials that used to be much worse(like MoL, which may not be a pie, but is much easier than when it was released).

I mean old content should be easier as time goes on. Main reason being is people don't really play old content. On FFxiv we had extreme trials right and savage raids, recently they added a party finder option to do it at your ilevel because people just werent playing the content anymore and now people play old stuff for completions and still have the option to duty find old content at harder levels. Hey now VMA isn't that easy. Easier sure. You still can make mistakes and lose and get overwelmed. If anything VMA is the only chunk of content that has aged well even with CP increases.

Well, what I mean about vMA is that, if you build correctly for it, it is not going to be difficult at all after you learn mechanics.
When it came out, you had to build with considerable defenses and offenses; now, you just build full offense with some sort of self-healing, like vigor. That’s because CP increased mitigation by very significant margins, while also increasing your damage - that means things take longer to kill you AND you kill them faster.
With it, pulling 50-60K DPS on a 10 second burst is completely possible, while 40K was very hard back in the day. Also, you had to keep an eye on how much damage you were taking, stopping to heal on multiple occasions. The only arena where I’m overwhelmed by damage is the fifth, at boss, because the very high DPS makes a bunch of adds spawn. A single sigil of defense solves the problem completely.

Latios wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Latios wrote: »

I think no-CP PvP is just much worse than CP one. That’s mostly because game balancing is made with CP in mind.

The worst aspect about CP(and newer sets) is that old content gets dumb easy. They are rarely updated, while we get very strong sets and such. Maelstrom, which was hellish, is now a pie. As are trials that used to be much worse(like MoL, which may not be a pie, but is much easier than when it was released).

I mean old content should be easier as time goes on. Main reason being is people don't really play old content. On FFxiv we had extreme trials right and savage raids, recently they added a party finder option to do it at your ilevel because people just werent playing the content anymore and now people play old stuff for completions and still have the option to duty find old content at harder levels. Hey now VMA isn't that easy. Easier sure. You still can make mistakes and lose and get overwelmed. If anything VMA is the only chunk of content that has aged well even with CP increases.

Well, what I mean about vMA is that, if you build correctly for it, it is not going to be difficult at all after you learn mechanics.
When it came out, you had to build with considerable defenses and offenses; now, you just build full offense with some sort of self-healing, like vigor. That’s because CP increased mitigation by very significant margins, while also increasing your damage - that means things take longer to kill you AND you kill them faster.
With it, pulling 50-60K DPS on a 10 second burst is completely possible, while 40K was very hard back in the day. Also, you had to keep an eye on how much damage you were taking, stopping to heal on multiple occasions. The only arena where I’m overwhelmed by damage is the fifth, at boss, because the very high DPS makes a bunch of adds spawn. A single sigil of defense solves the problem completely.

Yea Ive only completed about 10 times on a sorc I did try a DK and I'm just not that good. I can probably do a run about hour and a bit. But yeah maybe it was more difficult but thats ok vma weapons are for the most part not used anymore post 2 5 pc sets. Honestly I think a lot of this end game issues would be solved if they jist point level requirements on their higher level content. It would make elite happy and probably give cp upper prog people to keep pushing to hit those content requirements. I think thats something ffxiv gets right honestly it works people push for end game even still. And everything has a level and or ilevel requirement.

Tetrafy wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't larger health pools on enemies counteract power creep?

It would.

So would increasing their offenses and defenses. Maybe give them some actual strategy and competent AI as well. It would be nice to actually have an interesting gameplay experience outside of dungeons and trials on this game.

To be honest, that's my biggest gripe with this game currently. The game has just become too streamlined, too shallow, too easy. Questing is a bore. Enemies die in seconds (if they last even that long). New areas to quest in are basically sight-seeing expeditions. Only world bosses offer interesting combat experiences. And there is absolutely no incentive what-so-ever to ever group up with another player while exploring the landscape.

If this game wants to hold my attention for much longer they are going to have to start adding some more complexity and challenge to the combat systems. That's all there is to it. And no - adding cheesy one-shot mechanics that kill you if you don't follow the right directions isn't what I have in mind.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't larger health pools on enemies counteract power creep?

It's more complicated than that because CP affects things like our base stat pools and damage mitigation.. Doing so would just drag out a lot of fights without necessarily making them more challenging.

Dragging out fights is important if you want to actually have an interesting combat system because it makes the player have to consider defense and survival options which adds depth to the strategy elements of building your character.

If players can simply annihilate everything in a nanosecond then there is very little else for them to consider and everyone ends up running around mindlessly questing on some fully decked out damage-dealer obliterating everything in their path. Which is a fair description of questing on this game.

Juhasow wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

People blame CP for the creep

I blame new introduced gear ... and they wont stop doing that

For me that cp thing is just a smoke screen

Yeah definitely new gear is an issue when same character in julianos+TBS+skoria is doing 15k+ more DPS right now then it was doing back then during orsinium update when julianos was introduced , mundus stones used for TBS were stronger and 501 CP cap newly added. Not even mentioning about current vs back then survivability.

Definitely an issue with new gear...

Yeah but where is this actually in issue or no youre doing to well on your dps needs nerfed.

Read once more including both comments so maybe You wont miss the point second time. My post had context which You've missed by reading only it without the post I responded on.

Ah sarcasm yeah I missed it. I think 15k more dps is fine. Make the end game fights more difficult.

Tetrafy wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Now we're blaming animation canceling? The majority of the DDs are bad, and when they get called out, they do all kinds of mental gymnastics about why their 10k dps is better than 40k dps.

Im saying it should be easier to average 40k dps and use animation cancelling to get 80k plus. Its backwards when cancelling is needed to hit 40k plus dps. Its funny top players complain about power creep and yet allow a system that really only benifits them to be on top. This is the first community I've been in where I think the elite are wrong. And that's coming from a top 200 1 percent Halo player.

This is partially why I've been stating we need to bring back caps on all of our stats, in addition to putting a cap on DPS itsself in this game. Make it so that no one can get over 35-40k dps. It's certainly not needed in any aspect of this game what so ever, other than those elite players who want to bypass trials mechanics. Which is one of the reasons why we were nerfed so hard with Morrowind.
ZOS made these trials with an average DPS number in mind. By capping everyone's max dps to say, 10k above that number, that will effectively lower the ceiling and raise the floor, without gutting the middle ground.

That way, we leave the CP as it is, maybe add a few more things in for flavour; And it is made so that players can generally work to play the way they want, while using the points to compensate for their play style and choices.

Examples....

- With the new Racial Changes coming, players would be able to compensate for those racials so they have a viable khajit sorcerer by the time they get to end game or within so many CP afterwards.

- Players who are unable to Animation Cancel (which is still an unfixable bug, not a real feature of this game - [Your internet latency significantly impacts this]), can eventually compensate for that inability by using the CP to increase their damage where they need it. Eventually they will also meet that DPS Cap, whether they can animation cancel or not. It will at least allow them to go into trials and learn those mechanics and play the other parts of the game they couldn't previously. It also prevents the end game elite players, like those in Hodor and other raiding guilds from getting that 50-70k dps, skipping mechanics and causing an uproar on the forums and causing nerfs to the 90% of the players who can't ever pull that much dps.

- The average player wants diversity in their builds. Hybrid builds are not viable in end game trials (tanks the slight exception) and some people love their hybrids. This would help to make them viable again. You know, that whole "Play as you want".