@John_Falstaff I am already have 4.5k wpd. +258 for my only heal vigor did nothing.

Don't forget that the 4% extra healing is very strong.

In a state of equilibrium (average incoming damage = average incoming healing), like in a sustained fight, this basically means around 4% more mitigation because they heal out of the incoming damage more efficiently. There is always some form of healing ticking.
In terms of resists, 4% is some 2600. That's about 66% of Nord's Rugged passive (3960 res). Quite strong for something that nobody even mentions when comparing the races.

yodased wrote: »

I believe the choices made reflect the concept that race isn't the factor that separates builds. In their data they see clear trends and patterns that align characters and classes into something that performs objectively better across the board.

These changes make race less of an important choice, sure it matters, but its not like it used to be where if you are a mag dk you get to choose from dunmer and dunmer. Does this suck for those who want to min max and only have the absolute best performing character regardless of passives? Probably, I'm not one of those people so I can't speak for them.

Oh it is still min max, only the variables have changed.

With these changes I'll probably change my Orc healer to something else, but I still want to have an Orc.

What do you think will be the best class for an Orc with these race changes?

labambao wrote: »

@John_Falstaff I am already have 4.5k wpd. +258 for my only heal vigor did nothing.

Agreed on this point. I’d rather have more max stat.

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think the orc changes , while not perfect , are for the better.

As for troll king hp regen builds, they needed a nerf really.
No wonder everyone is running around with master axes and troll king.

It needed to happen, and I'm glad I can actually wear fun stuff like balorgh, blood spawn, slimecraw etc again.

But why do people use Troll King on something like stamsOrc? Because stamsorc has little other tools to build if wanna stay in combat and not get stomped by zergs, atleast then can use LoS and hp regen with smart play to survive. Compare this to things like Cloak that can use to escape the same zerg and keep yourself in the fight.

So little things like these nerfs, with the earlier speed nerfs, all just empower the zergs since the solo and small scale players keep getting options taken out from them.

People tend to use things that still work if used properly with situational awareness, but soon nothing left other than join to zerg and spam 1 skill there with the rest of them.

So one can go wear Balorgh and get chased by a zerg and dropped down fast. Wearing Balorg while riding back from closest keep after being killed feels so good.

But i guess all these are buffs for pvp as people seem to say here. I think i`ll just give up on trying to explain these, i feel like they are repairing something that did not need repairing and did not bring freedom and did not increase variety, still 2 races for max and stam dps are above others. Nothing changed except many pvp builds got nerfed, oh well.

Stam sorcs are gonna be useless in PvP unless they get some changes in the PTS

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think the orc changes , while not perfect , are for the better.

As for troll king hp regen builds, they needed a nerf really.
No wonder everyone is running around with master axes and troll king.

It needed to happen, and I'm glad I can actually wear fun stuff like balorgh, blood spawn, slimecraw etc again.

But why do people use Troll King on something like stamsOrc? Because stamsorc has little other tools to build if wanna stay in combat and not get stomped by zergs, atleast then can use LoS and hp regen with smart play to survive. Compare this to things like Cloak that can use to escape the same zerg and keep yourself in the fight.

So little things like these nerfs, with the earlier speed nerfs, all just empower the zergs since the solo and small scale players keep getting options taken out from them.

People tend to use things that still work if used properly with situational awareness, but soon nothing left other than join to zerg and spam 1 skill there with the rest of them.

So one can go wear Balorgh and get chased by a zerg and dropped down fast. Wearing Balorg while riding back from closest keep after being killed feels so good.

But i guess all these are buffs for pvp as people seem to say here. I think i`ll just give up on trying to explain these, i feel like they are repairing something that did not need repairing and did not bring freedom and did not increase variety, still 2 races for max and stam dps are above others. Nothing changed except many pvp builds got nerfed, oh well.

Its simply not balanced to have 4-5k hp regen just because you wear troll king as a stams'Orc. ''Cloak this, cloak that, zerg this zerg that'', well guess what my Dk got none of the mobility stamsorcs have ,none of the damage stamsorcs have, you don't see me complaining because I couldn't kite an entire zerg like stamsorcs do.

And I don't understand why you people use zergs as an excuse for everything that overperforms in this game.Stamblades say the same thing for cloak, templars said the same for AFK BoL spam, magsorcs said the same for shieldstacking, DKs said the same thing for permablocking, Its as if zergs can't use these tools.

I don't stand and oppose zergs, I'm more of a BG/small scale player, and I hate it when some random guy that can't even keep up his vigor can fight me equally and recover from grave mistakes, because he wears troll king. Its a crutch, there are many other crutches for stamina builds, but troll king is one of the most ridicilous ones, followed closely by master axes.

Problem with these things are not being strong, but being too ''dumb-proof''.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Its simply not balanced to have 4-5k hp regen just because you wear troll king as a stams'Orc. ''Cloak this, cloak that, zerg this zerg that'', well guess what my Dk got none of the mobility stamsorcs have ,none of the damage stamsorcs have, you don't see me complaining because I couldn't kite an entire zerg like stamsorcs do.

And I don't understand why you people use zergs as an excuse for everything that overperforms in this game.Stamblades say the same thing for cloak, templars said the same for AFK BoL spam, magsorcs said the same for shieldstacking, DKs said the same thing for permablocking, Its as if zergs can't use these tools.

I don't stand and oppose zergs, I'm more of a BG/small scale player, and I hate it when some random guy that can't even keep up his vigor can fight me equally and recover from grave mistakes, because he wears troll king. Its a crutch, there are many other crutches for stamina builds, but troll king is one of the most ridicilous ones, followed closely by master axes.

Problem with these things are not being strong, but being too ''dumb-proof''.

Dk has none of the mobility ? You have 10% less move speed, thats it really. Bolt escape is a very clunky skill. And dk has arguably more damage than stamsorc, but at least not less. You have class dots, debuff and usable ults. Stamsorc has hurricane and a chance at implosion, that's it really. I'm not saying dk is op and doesn't have issues but I just disagree with these 2 points.

It's also not so much complaining because we couldn't kite a zerg, it's just that stamsorc has no defence against outnumbered fights anymore, the larger group has the speed, not the solo player. So all stamsorc has to counter being outnumbered is bolt escape and it's a terrible skill for what t's supposed to do. I have mentioned on another thread that I used orc, steed, major expidition and streak and still could not escape a chasing group, that is ridiculous.

And you don't get 4.5k hp for just using troll king. But even when you do get that high it's still far from op. You can get 6k hp rec and still die fast. Stamsorc isn't a tanky class and it has no defences like some other classes do, that's why most stamsorcs use troll king, because it's simply needed. It allows you to stay in the fight longer and use los and heal a bit, without it we would be way too squishy to survive.

I really don't get why people keep saying troll king is op though, when there are damage like bleeds and oblivion that do insane amounts and ignore your defences, or a damage monster set like zaan that hits over 20k, troll king won't counter that. And troll king does nothing to stop burst either. If it is so op though then why do most stamdens and stam dks use bloodspawn ? Troll king works better for some builds, worse for others, that makes it good, not op.

Also I don't understand the crutch argument, almost everything in the game is a crutch if you look at it like that.