Calling all Mag Sorcs, Race changes discussion

bardx86 · January 2019

All,

Currently I'm running a high elf but breton is looking inciting. I'm not really feeling the sustain change to high elf. Think it would be possible to still build a high damage Sorc on breton or would high elf still be the way to go?

TheYKcid · January 2019

Still going to be Altmer for me.

My philosophy for building Sorc has always been that the highest efficiency comes from obtaining sustain through sets, as Sorc is a great platform for the best sustain sets in the game. After building around this core, damage then comes from generic sources like jewelry enchants, Mundus stone, etc. If I swapped to Breton (thus getting sustain from racials instead), I just don't see which of my current sets I'd want to replace:

Amber is indispensable because its stam sustain provides unparalleled defensive utility in the form of more dodging, blocking, and Dark Conversions (the last of which is more sustain in itself).

Lich is simply the best backbar set for mag, period, and my build necessitates a backbar since I run Master's destro (can't get a full bar without it now). If I wanted to replace this with a damage set, the options are pretty limited. Spell Strat comes to mind, but having to constantly reapply would disrupt combos and restrict my ability to quickly re-prioritise targets.

I suppose it could be different if you ran 5/5/2 frontbar without the Master's, allowing for a pure damage 5pc like Spinner's. In my case it still makes sense to build around sustain sets—now with Altmer racials added to my list of fungible/interchangeable damage sources.

Beardimus · January 2019

I'm stubborn, and Pact loyal so will be sticking with Dunmer and hoping there are some tweaks to the passive before go live

f047ys3v3n · January 2019

Altmer still BIS. mSorcs are way to far from sustain for the now very good sustain Breton to free us from the tyranny of the heavy attack. Make no mistake, we lost probably 2 set pieces worth of overall power since we both synergized relatively well with the elemental damage thing and have giant mag pools to multiply by the old % system, but Altmer is still best.

Now, mNB, they might be thinking about going Breton especially since they sure can't be dark elf anymore. They are right on the edge of sustain and are absolutely required to sustain or their entire proc depended rotation falls apart.

Vildebill · January 2019

For PvE, it's Altmer of bust if you want to get maximum damage, no brainer there.

PvP is of course another situation since it depends on your personal build, sets and how you play. Personally I would still go Altmer in PvP since there's a lot of good sets that gives both damage and sustain like amberplasm and shacklebreaker.

rafaelcsmaia · January 2019

I think it all comes down to the possibility of using blue food.

If it is possible to sustain a rotation in blue food on a breton, it would make the damage almost the same with the bonus of having more health.

We need pts for that

twofaced · January 2019

AD still gonna suck another year

FrancisCrawford · January 2019

For a pet sorcerer, it's not obvious that Altmer remains the best, because spell damage is useless for pet damage, pet healing, and shields. That said, thanking heaven for small favors -- while the Altmer damage buff is no longer good for pet sorcerers, the cooldown on the sustain passive is a perfect match for Daedric Prey. Also, the damage loss from using a magicka absorption enchantment rather than an elemental one is now slightly reduced for Altmers.

katorga · January 2019

Breton should have had 2300 spell resist and 2300 spell pen instead of 100 mag regen.

That said, percent reductions get hit with diminishing returns pretty heavily, so the 7% reduction will be more like 4-5% real world once you layer on class passives, light armor, and cp cost reductions. Unless they've changed them to additive and I never heard about it, that has been a long time complaint about the Breton cost reduction and Nord damage reduction, going way way back.

5 bucks says pets are removed or completely reworked. With all of the Sorc nerfs and the loss of overload bar, they are unworkable now. Losing the OL bar broke the entire design of the class. Dev's always claimed it was their precisely because pets took up so many slots.

Pelican · January 2019

I'm staying altmer, good damage buff since frags and curse were previously unaffected by altmer passive. Go dunmer only if you really need the sustain.

gepe87 · January 2019

Gonna change to Altmer unfortunatly. The mag reduction and no flame damage bonus isn't enough to be competitive both PvP and PvE.

JobooAGS · January 2019

Pvp wise, how does redguard sound with bright throat and another mag dmg set, dropping shackle and/or amberplasm?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

bardx86 wrote: »

All,

Currently I'm running a high elf but breton is looking inciting. I'm not really feeling the sustain change to high elf. Think it would be possible to still build a high damage Sorc on breton or would high elf still be the way to go?

Have you look at Khajiit?

TheYKcid · January 2019

JobooAGS wrote: »

Pvp wise, how does redguard sound with bright throat and another mag dmg set, dropping shackle and/or amberplasm?

@JobooAGS That's actually a seriously cool idea, but I wouldn't go with Redguard though—their new passive gives cost redux to weapon abilities ONLY, and you won't be using any stam wep abilities.

Bosmer, on the other hand... you still get the 2k stam and the full 258 stam regen at all times (Magsorc also happens to have a really good stam regen multiplier due to vamp + the Daedric passive, so this is great). I could even imagine getting decent use out of the rolldodge speed passive—streak > rolldodge is a common defensive combo to get behind LOS when you're heavily snared.

That said, I highly doubt this will outperform Amberplasm once all the relevant stats have been redistributed within your build. Amber is simply too efficient—it has good stats even without the stam regen; essentially massive stam sustain without penalty. You'll also be losing Altmer's 2k mag, & 387 total SD (from Altmer + Amber 4pc)— the Bosmer BTB setup will have a small advantage in max max, but a huge deficit in total damage due to the SD loss.

I've tried building around BTB in the past but never got as much juice out of it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5691525#Comment_5691525

Wildberryjack · January 2019

Mine is staying Altmer. I'll be making my Necromancer a Breton and don't want all my guys to be the same race. Besides, Altmer will still be very strong for Sorcerer even if they get beaten out a bit in the sustain department.

JobooAGS · January 2019

TheYKcid wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Pvp wise, how does redguard sound with bright throat and another mag dmg set, dropping shackle and/or amberplasm?

@JobooAGS That's actually a seriously cool idea, but I wouldn't go with Redguard though—their new passive gives cost redux to weapon abilities ONLY, and you won't be using any stam wep abilities.

Bosmer, on the other hand... you still get the 2k stam and the full 258 stam regen at all times (Magsorc also happens to have a really good stam regen multiplier due to vamp + the Daedric passive, so this is great). I could even imagine getting decent use out of the rolldodge speed passive—streak > rolldodge is a common defensive combo to get behind LOS when you're heavily snared.

That said, I highly doubt this will outperform Amberplasm once all the relevant stats have been redistributed within your build. Amber is simply too efficient—it has good stats even without the stam regen; essentially massive stam sustain without penalty. You'll also be losing Altmer's 2k mag, & 387 total SD (from Altmer + Amber 4pc)— the Bosmer BTB setup will have a small advantage in max max, but a huge deficit in total damage due to the SD loss.

I've tried building around BTB in the past but never got as much juice out of it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5691525#Comment_5691525

Weapon abilities include staves. So force pulse, clench, blockade, mutagen, healing ward and likely ults too all get 8% cheaper which means more sustain overall. With another damage set such as bsw, necropotence or destro mastery you can make up for the loss in spell damage/max mag somewhat.

TheYKcid · January 2019

JobooAGS wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Pvp wise, how does redguard sound with bright throat and another mag dmg set, dropping shackle and/or amberplasm?

@JobooAGS That's actually a seriously cool idea, but I wouldn't go with Redguard though—their new passive gives cost redux to weapon abilities ONLY, and you won't be using any stam wep abilities.

Bosmer, on the other hand... you still get the 2k stam and the full 258 stam regen at all times (Magsorc also happens to have a really good stam regen multiplier due to vamp + the Daedric passive, so this is great). I could even imagine getting decent use out of the rolldodge speed passive—streak > rolldodge is a common defensive combo to get behind LOS when you're heavily snared.

That said, I highly doubt this will outperform Amberplasm once all the relevant stats have been redistributed within your build. Amber is simply too efficient—it has good stats even without the stam regen; essentially massive stam sustain without penalty. You'll also be losing Altmer's 2k mag, & 387 total SD (from Altmer + Amber 4pc)— the Bosmer BTB setup will have a small advantage in max max, but a huge deficit in total damage due to the SD loss.

I've tried building around BTB in the past but never got as much juice out of it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5691525#Comment_5691525

Weapon abilities include staves. So force pulse, clench, blockade, mutagen, healing ward and likely ults too all get 8% cheaper which means more sustain overall. With another damage set such as bsw, necropotence or destro mastery you can make up for the loss in spell damage/max mag somewhat.

I took a closer look at the tooltip wording and you're right. That's interesting.

Still doesn't seem worth it though. The stam sustain from Redguard only applies when you're on the offensive, unlike Amber. The 387 SD deficit still applies. A little harder to quantify the sustain from cost redux, but I only have 2 weapon spells on my bars so definitely less than Altmer too.

You only gain a little bit of extra max mag from BTB in return. Destro mastery won't work unless I doublebar destros which I'm not willing to lol.

Also I can't think of any good drinks to use with the build. Witchmother's would be too much sustain, Spring-Loaded would be too much stam. Bloody Mara (two stat) is barely better than trifood which I currently use.

Only interesting thing would be cheaper resto ults (if it applies to ults) but then it'd only be 107 > 97 which is not a huge improvement.

Ariades_swe · January 2019

katorga wrote: »

Breton should have had 2300 spell resist and 2300 spell pen instead of 100 mag regen.

That said, percent reductions get hit with diminishing returns pretty heavily, so the 7% reduction will be more like 4-5% real world once you layer on class passives, light armor, and cp cost reductions. Unless they've changed them to additive and I never heard about it, that has been a long time complaint about the Breton cost reduction and Nord damage reduction, going way way back.

5 bucks says pets are removed or completely reworked. With all of the Sorc nerfs and the loss of overload bar, they are unworkable now. Losing the OL bar broke the entire design of the class. Dev's always claimed it was their precisely because pets took up so many slots.

There's no cp that reduce magicka cost anymore....
They took it away like 1.5 years ago.

Giraffon · January 2019

I've got a dunmer MagSorc. I'm just going to leave him as is. You never know when you might trip and fall into some lava.

MerlinPendragon · January 2019

I main an Altmer Pet Sorc and wont be making any changes.

ccmedaddy · January 2019

For PvP I'm seriously considering making mine a Redguard so I don't have to worry about stam sustain and can just spec for full dmg. Bye Shakle and Amber, hello Spell Strat+Spinners.

Heimpai · January 2019

I was going to ask if this is pvp or pve then realized my answer would still be the same..Altmer

Ragnaroek93 · January 2019

My magsorc is Dunmer so well... have to racechange to either Altmer or Breton I guess

idk · January 2019

As it stands the high elf would provide the most damage with some sustain. The Bretton would probably provide the most sustain.

DeathlurkZ · January 2019

From a PVE HA pet sorc (1 pet) I am going with altmer which is my current.

My thoughts:

Since my magsorc has a HA in every rotation, I'm not concerned about sustain.
The damage reduction to channeled abilities (lightning HA) sounds nice.

Altmer appears to be the race with the most damage so I will not race change unless PTS shows otherwise.

JobooAGS · January 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

For PvP I'm seriously considering making mine a Redguard so I don't have to worry about stam sustain and can just spec for full dmg. Bye Shakle and Amber, hello Spell Strat+Spinners.

That is similar to what I was thinking of (idk why I blanked on spinners and spell strat, maybe in part because spell strat is relatively rare in coffins)

JobooAGS · January 2019

TheYKcid wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Pvp wise, how does redguard sound with bright throat and another mag dmg set, dropping shackle and/or amberplasm?

@JobooAGS That's actually a seriously cool idea, but I wouldn't go with Redguard though—their new passive gives cost redux to weapon abilities ONLY, and you won't be using any stam wep abilities.

Bosmer, on the other hand... you still get the 2k stam and the full 258 stam regen at all times (Magsorc also happens to have a really good stam regen multiplier due to vamp + the Daedric passive, so this is great). I could even imagine getting decent use out of the rolldodge speed passive—streak > rolldodge is a common defensive combo to get behind LOS when you're heavily snared.

That said, I highly doubt this will outperform Amberplasm once all the relevant stats have been redistributed within your build. Amber is simply too efficient—it has good stats even without the stam regen; essentially massive stam sustain without penalty. You'll also be losing Altmer's 2k mag, & 387 total SD (from Altmer + Amber 4pc)— the Bosmer BTB setup will have a small advantage in max max, but a huge deficit in total damage due to the SD loss.

I've tried building around BTB in the past but never got as much juice out of it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5691525#Comment_5691525

Weapon abilities include staves. So force pulse, clench, blockade, mutagen, healing ward and likely ults too all get 8% cheaper which means more sustain overall. With another damage set such as bsw, necropotence or destro mastery you can make up for the loss in spell damage/max mag somewhat.

I took a closer look at the tooltip wording and you're right. That's interesting.

Still doesn't seem worth it though. The stam sustain from Redguard only applies when you're on the offensive, unlike Amber. The 387 SD deficit still applies. A little harder to quantify the sustain from cost redux, but I only have 2 weapon spells on my bars so definitely less than Altmer too.

You only gain a little bit of extra max mag from BTB in return. Destro mastery won't work unless I doublebar destros which I'm not willing to lol.

Also I can't think of any good drinks to use with the build. Witchmother's would be too much sustain, Spring-Loaded would be too much stam. Bloody Mara (two stat) is barely better than trifood which I currently use.

Only interesting thing would be cheaper resto ults (if it applies to ults) but then it'd only be 107 > 97 which is not a huge improvement.

Overall fair point

bardx86 · January 2019

I guess I should have mentioned i'm looking at PVP builds. I currently run spinners and bright and still have to run one regen on jewelry. Was looking to not have to do that a run more damage. Redguard is interesting as well.

Beardimus · January 2019

I get everyone is solutioning on this thread which is ace but it bugs me. 1. Basically most people are changing = profit and 2 this whole gig around opening up choice means races are just confused. So now Dunmers getting ditched as magika pretty much its a weird nothing middle ground for sorc

Odd. Odd odd