For pvp they might have gotten worse, however for stam-pve they might have become the best choice

When you deal damage with a weapon ability. Any weapon ability. Dots even.
Nothing ro see here.

Already with 500 stam and 254 weapon damage as well basically 200 stam regen, orc is competing for the top pve Stam DPS spot. Give them more and they basically blow all other non-redguard races out of the water.

Someone forgot about the 258 weapon damage that gets buffed and affects healing

Nerftheforums wrote: »

"Restore health" is not healing. It works like pots, it is not affected by any buff or debuff including defile and battle spirit, except for syphoner. Learn the basics of the game before randomly QQing please.

proof link?
I know only 1 "restore health", from potions. And defile and battle spirit make their role in it.

Nerftheforums wrote: »

"Restore health" is not healing. It works like pots, it is not affected by any buff or debuff including defile and battle spirit, except for syphoner. Learn the basics of the game before randomly QQing please.

Lmfao. Potions do get affected by battlespirit and defile. Learn the basics of the game before randomly trying to lecture people.

Orc just feels a bit all over the place. More speed, more raw damage, some kind of sustain and healing, and more healing received - and pays for this with the lowest attributes of all races.

Going by Gilliam's comment on the Orc changes:
The Orc race is one of honor and code. Well known for their aggressive combat style, we wanted to showcase this by helping them keep up the fight with their new recovery when utilizing any weapon. Their previous bonus to Melee Damage was too niche, and we wanted Orcs to feel powerful with less restrictions. Since we’re giving them more damage and aggression, we also wanted to dial back on some of their defensive power.

I think the concept would be fine, to make Orcs a race that can get quickly into a fight, and has to stay in combat for most of its effects. But overall that should be enough of a drawback - in comparison, Bosmer and Khajiit recovery bonuses work out of combat and can be improved upon further, and Redguards are obviously superior.

Changes I'd propose:

Brawny: Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500 1000.
Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 760 Health and 380 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

This way you give up the passive healing bonus for improving the original concept, and close the gap to other races' attributes. It helps them "keep up the fight" while dialing back their "defensive power", as Gilliam intended.

nsmurfer wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Orc just feels a bit all over the place. More speed, more raw damage, some kind of sustain and healing, and more healing received - and pays for this with the lowest attributes of all races.

Going by Gilliam's comment on the Orc changes:
The Orc race is one of honor and code. Well known for their aggressive combat style, we wanted to showcase this by helping them keep up the fight with their new recovery when utilizing any weapon. Their previous bonus to Melee Damage was too niche, and we wanted Orcs to feel powerful with less restrictions. Since we’re giving them more damage and aggression, we also wanted to dial back on some of their defensive power.

I think the concept would be fine, to make Orcs a race that can get quickly into a fight, and has to stay in combat for most of its effects. But overall that should be enough of a drawback - in comparison, Bosmer and Khajiit recovery bonuses work out of combat and can be improved upon further, and Redguards are obviously superior.

Changes I'd propose:

Brawny: Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500 1000.
Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 760 Health and 380 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

This way you give up the passive healing bonus for improving the original concept, and close the gap to other races' attributes. It helps them "keep up the fight" while dialing back their "defensive power", as Gilliam intended.

Make it 1000 and they literally blow Khajiit out of the water in terms of DPS. Higher raw damage, higher sustain, seriously?

Weapon power and crit aren't comparable across all situations, but generally the Khajiit bonus is on par. The recovery as I said is also more beneficial in different situations, as you don't have to remain in combat and it can be increased further, whereas the Orc sustain passive remains flat.
Maybe there is a middle ground somewhere below 1000 max stats for Orcs, but 500 seems certainly too low.

katorga wrote: »

It is interesting how health stat and health regen got monkey hammered. Not a single +20% health regen got converted to +258 regen. Khajiit kept 100 health regen; Orc got it replaced with a fixed 380 proc doing damage, likely cut in half by Battle Spirit, and Nord lost it completely.

I am really annoyed with this. I love using hp regen for my stamsorc since it lacks survivability and losing the 20% on every race is frustrating. Why couldn't they have just kept regen on orc instead of the weak heal proc that does nothing

I believe the choices made reflect the concept that race isn't the factor that separates builds. In their data they see clear trends and patterns that align characters and classes into something that performs objectively better across the board.

These changes make race less of an important choice, sure it matters, but its not like it used to be where if you are a mag dk you get to choose from dunmer and dunmer. Does this suck for those who want to min max and only have the absolute best performing character regardless of passives? Probably, I'm not one of those people so I can't speak for them.

The overarching point though is that creating passives that require a player to choose the race to be the most effective class is against the ethos of the game.

Race matters still, its just not the end all be all that it was perceived to be in previous iterations.

Faulgor wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Orc just feels a bit all over the place. More speed, more raw damage, some kind of sustain and healing, and more healing received - and pays for this with the lowest attributes of all races.

Going by Gilliam's comment on the Orc changes:
The Orc race is one of honor and code. Well known for their aggressive combat style, we wanted to showcase this by helping them keep up the fight with their new recovery when utilizing any weapon. Their previous bonus to Melee Damage was too niche, and we wanted Orcs to feel powerful with less restrictions. Since we’re giving them more damage and aggression, we also wanted to dial back on some of their defensive power.

I think the concept would be fine, to make Orcs a race that can get quickly into a fight, and has to stay in combat for most of its effects. But overall that should be enough of a drawback - in comparison, Bosmer and Khajiit recovery bonuses work out of combat and can be improved upon further, and Redguards are obviously superior.

Changes I'd propose:

Brawny: Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500 1000.
Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 760 Health and 380 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

This way you give up the passive healing bonus for improving the original concept, and close the gap to other races' attributes. It helps them "keep up the fight" while dialing back their "defensive power", as Gilliam intended.

Make it 1000 and they literally blow Khajiit out of the water in terms of DPS. Higher raw damage, higher sustain, seriously?

Weapon power and crit aren't comparable across all situations, but generally the Khajiit bonus is on par. The recovery as I said is also more beneficial in different situations, as you don't have to remain in combat and it can be increased further, whereas the Orc sustain passive remains flat.
Maybe there is a middle ground somewhere below 1000 max stats for Orcs, but 500 seems certainly too low.

254 Weapon Dmg (buffable) and 8% crit (unbuffable) is fairly equal in PvE. But in PvP, 254 Weapon Dmg>>>>8% Weapon Crit due to Impregnable and Impen gear.

Even taking into account every single recovery bonus, the Khajiit regen does not close to 200, which is the Orc regen. While, it does not work out of combat, it works while blocking, balancing it out.

500 Stam is pretty balanced with 750 Stam for Khajiit.

Glory wrote: »

Orc has some of the best proposed passives for stamina.

So much ignorance.

Ignorance ? Your being ignorant too by assuming these passives benefit every playstyle and build. There is many different types of builds and then pve and pvp. For me this change is just a nerf. I have a free race change token so I can pick another race but orc is still just worse off for my character.

labambao wrote: »

Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500.
500! not even 1000, just 500. Okay, deal with it.

Unflinching: Healing Received by 5% and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
380 if you use weapon ability with 4sec cd. It's 190 with battle spirit. If you havent defile debuff.
So as orc i can only roleplay here? Make orcs great again.

Dear Malacath, why complaining?

Okay Orc tanks may have a little bit less of these changes, but as a Stamina Character, the Orc loves the changes. The orc felt a long time a bit underpowered (even for magicka), but well at the end we have to accept that we are apparently not an intelligent race and therefore we don't have Magicka support. Although I still feel that this is unfair, because in every race you can have powerful persons (same for highelf: Why shouldn't they be good for stamina as well? Normally they are very intelligent and support Magicka better, but I guess even highelves have some strong ones in their race).

But so far the changes are well. I don't feel that I (as a DD) am worse than before, no indeed, I am better. Speaking for Stamina.

Smashing with Axe/Mace/Dagger/Sword, no problem! Or with a bow, no problem!

And maybe one day we will be the strongest, most intelligent and healthiest race in Tamriel. Maybe. Never give up!