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Previously standard race/class combos are no longer optimal

Narvuntien
Narvuntien
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I feel like that is the main issue with the changes.
People are super attached to characters they have played for ages and don't want to change them for more damage.

The two big ones happen to be my two mains. Dumner and MagDK, Bosmer and Nightblade. (I know argonians got hit with the nerf hammer but they were everything, not one class)

I am not the only Dumner Magdk, its such an iconic combo. I did it when magdk wasn't even good. Now its just so much worse than Altmer DKs (as DKs use almost all class skills). Now it makes sense that Dumner is more hybrid since they get a bonus to dual wield and it makes no sense they are a magicka class all this time. The issue as noted is that hybrid isn't useful in any way so there is no good way to make the best out of the new passive. Perhaps the rest of the patch will make hybrid work?? perhaps there will be a buff to swords?? to make the playstyle more useful for magdks?? But with just this info its decoupled the more iconic race/class combo and that's a problem.

Proposed solution: I know you removed the % damage types from the race classes but fire damage was so important to Dumners current play styles. I propose we lose the random extra hp passive and replace it with a damage bonus to fire and poison to play up their dual natures. It would be strong but sustain will still be an issue but it will retain the dumner dragonknight combo that is important to players.

So Bosmer has always been a PVP only race and these changes do nothing to change that. I think it can be argued that stealthy wasn't healthy for the game passive, huge amount of stealth damage can do completely unfair things particularly when nightblades can do it repeatedly. But the stealthy passive made the bosmer nightblade combo critically important in pvp. So the speed passive might be really good (I think it is) but its kind of very PVP focused, it helps a lot with kiting and staying out of range which suits bosmers encouraged bow play style. The problem I see here is that there is no way to increase damage (or sustain) in their passives anywhere. Redgaurds are very sustain focused, Orcs have a damage bonus and Khajiti have crit bonus and bosmer run fast? To make Bosmers work they need

Proposed solution: Hmm I would think bonus damage to ranged attack but then you removed the opposite from the orcs so you don't want that and it helps wardens not nightblades. So I propose Stamina cost reduction for Class skills as a sort of mirror to redgaurds and their weapon skills passive. Nightblades use Suprise attack as their major skill.

  • Calboy
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    Just don't race change? I know, crazy huh!
  • LightMaster7
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    And why the hell do we need to do that? What if we played one race and one character for years and now your saying we have to change to fit their mold? screw that.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Calboy wrote: »
    Just don't race change? I know, crazy huh!

    I wont but what if my dps drops? and I can no longer do Vet trials?.. on the character that has all my achievements.
  • Tigerseye
    Tigerseye
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    It helps a lot with kiting and staying out of range which suits bosmers encouraged bow play style.

    Well, except, if you use a bow (or, ideally, bow/bow) you already have Hasty Retreat.

    Which is superior to this racial passive, because it lasts 4 seconds, rather than 3 and increases speed by 30%, rather than 20%.

    So, the racial is really only going to be of any use to a Bosmer who is not using a bow (or not using a bow all the time).

    The problem I see here is that there is no way to increase damage (or sustain) in their passives anywhere.

    This is absolutely true.

    So I propose Stamina cost reduction for Class skills as a sort of mirror to redgaurds and their weapon skills passive. Nightblades use Suprise attack as their major skill.

    Good idea. :smile:

    Edited by Tigerseye on January 18, 2019 5:30AM
  • Thorstienn
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Calboy wrote: »
    Just don't race change? I know, crazy huh!

    I wont but what if my dps drops? and I can no longer do Vet trials?.. on the character that has all my achievements.

    What are you pulling now? MagDk is around 45+k self now.... you'd need to lose like 10+k for this to effect the content you want, which it won't.

    If they add back a buff to flame dmg without other changes, Dunmer would just be no1 again as it is now for damage, due to the flame staff meta; 25%LA dmg, flame wall, DK engulfing buff.

    Also, just be patient. This is just racial passives, BEFORE even PTS release. We haven't seen any proposed class/balance changes or had the month of PTS.

    Finally, as is the case now, thensifference between the races will still be very small: your choice to "spend money" to chase 1%
  • Jameliel
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    One of my masters axe bleed-build buddies who plays with great ping was raving about how "Bosmer got buffed". At first I was flabbergasted how they could think that, then I realized for people like them, it is a buff. They never made a wood elf, nor did they ever play a pure archer. They also never played an actual TES game. Now that there is yet ANOTHER race which lets them enjoy little speed buffs as they dodge roll around bleeding people with their axes, they will surely roll one. As long as I've played any TES game, Bosmer have always been great at dealing damage from stealth and controlling animals. Seems like the current team at zos are simply picking things at random to change, while rubbing their hands together in anticipation of all the crowns/race-change tokens they are going to sell.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Tigerseye wrote: »
    Narvuntien wrote: »
    It helps a lot with kiting and staying out of range which suits bosmers encouraged bow play style.

    Well, except, if you use a bow (or, ideally, bow/bow) you already have Hasty Retreat.

    Which is superior to this racial passive, because it lasts 4 seconds, rather than 3 and increases speed by 30%, rather than 20%.

    So, the racial is really only going to be of any use to a Bosmer who is not using a bow (or not using a bow all the time).
    ...

    Out of interest, has ZOS made any statement as to whether the Bosmer passive will stack with Hasty Retreat due to them being varied effects?
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
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  • Kuramas9tails
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    You do realize a lot of us changed our race when the resource nerf hit and we did fine. I am still so attached to my MageKhajiit that got me my first clearance of VMA and also my first two boss clearance of VMOL in our progression that I wear cat related costumes on my Altmer because I miss being a Khajiit so much.
      Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
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      AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
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      FOR THE QUEEN!
      PS4/NA
    • Narvuntien
      Narvuntien
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      Thorstienn wrote: »
      Narvuntien wrote: »
      Calboy wrote: »
      Just don't race change? I know, crazy huh!

      I wont but what if my dps drops? and I can no longer do Vet trials?.. on the character that has all my achievements.

      What are you pulling now? MagDk is around 45+k self now.... you'd need to lose like 10+k for this to effect the content you want, which it won't.

      If they add back a buff to flame dmg without other changes, Dunmer would just be no1 again as it is now for damage, due to the flame staff meta; 25%LA dmg, flame wall, DK engulfing buff.

      Also, just be patient. This is just racial passives, BEFORE even PTS release. We haven't seen any proposed class/balance changes or had the month of PTS.

      Finally, as is the case now, thensifference between the races will still be very small: your choice to "spend money" to chase 1%

      I am at 30K dps... I have 300 ping. Also they are called Xian Telvanni so I can't race change them.

      Yeah well, they might buff swords or something hybrid then It will still work.
      Edited by Narvuntien on January 18, 2019 3:03PM
    • Silver_Strider
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      At least Dunmer has options available to them that doesn't shoehorn them into only 1 build, even if those options don't translate into being Top Tier.

      I like the Hybrid nature of Dunmer's new passives since it opens up actual diversity with the race. They won't be the best Tanks/Stamina DPS/Magic DPS/Healers but those options are now universally decent options for a Dunmer to pursue, whereas before it was Magic DPS or gtfo.

      I'd honestly hoped all racials would have gotten this hybrid mentality instead of only Dunmer and Khajiit so that, while 1 or 2 races might still be the mathematical best for a specific role (Redguard Stamina DPS, Altmer Magic DPS), the gap wouldn't be so massive that other races couldn't keep up, which is the current situation in regards to racials.
      Argonian forever
    • WoppaBoem
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      .
      Edited by WoppaBoem on January 18, 2019 3:48PM
      Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only
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