[Update 21] Nord "Rugged" passive — a mathematical analysis

TheYKcid · January 2019

barshemm wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

@Vapirko I'm extremely curious about that, myself. But I'd first need to know whether the new Unflinching passive (stam & HP restore) procs strictly on weapon abilities only, or if light & heavy attacks are included.

It's the difference between being an extremely reliable source of sustain & passive healing... or entirely useless on certain builds.

My best guess says that they should be counted, since current proc conditions that state "weapon abilities" (eg. the Red Mountain & Way Of Fire sets) do proc on light & heavy weaves.

But you never know when it comes to ZOS coding & tooltips—so we'll have to wait for PTS.

There has a big catch though. Even if the passive healing works on light attacks, they still offer nothing when you have to go defensive. Stam sorc for example already has it's class heal tied to offensive attacks. You los and dots wear off, no crit surge heal. Right now due to passives, orc Stam sorc has vigor and higher health recovery to reset. Health recovery especially important as it's no cost vs vigor shares the same pool as your roll dodge and sprint.

Vigor + Rally + Dark Deal is already more than enough defensive healing tbh—It's certainly more than what a Stamplar has. I'm glad to take the new Orc passives, personally. BTW, the way they worded Swift Warrior highly suggests to me that it's being refactored to provide the full 10% speed bonus, not 4% like it currently does—but we'll see come PTS.

Vapirko · January 2019

TheYKcid wrote: »

barshemm wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

@Vapirko I'm extremely curious about that, myself. But I'd first need to know whether the new Unflinching passive (stam & HP restore) procs strictly on weapon abilities only, or if light & heavy attacks are included.

It's the difference between being an extremely reliable source of sustain & passive healing... or entirely useless on certain builds.

My best guess says that they should be counted, since current proc conditions that state "weapon abilities" (eg. the Red Mountain & Way Of Fire sets) do proc on light & heavy weaves.

But you never know when it comes to ZOS coding & tooltips—so we'll have to wait for PTS.

There has a big catch though. Even if the passive healing works on light attacks, they still offer nothing when you have to go defensive. Stam sorc for example already has it's class heal tied to offensive attacks. You los and dots wear off, no crit surge heal. Right now due to passives, orc Stam sorc has vigor and higher health recovery to reset. Health recovery especially important as it's no cost vs vigor shares the same pool as your roll dodge and sprint.

Vigor + Rally + Dark Deal is already more than enough defensive healing tbh—It's certainly more than what a Stamplar has. I'm glad to take the new Orc passives, personally. BTW, the way they worded Swift Warrior highly suggests to me that it's being refactored to provide the full 10% speed bonus, not 4% like it currently does—but we'll see come PTS.

That would be cool. I can adjust my build around lower max stats. More inherent mobilty would be awesome. And hopefully we see at least a small nod towards single player mobilty improvements in the PTS notes as well .

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2019

Better maths, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5736784#Comment_5736784

paulsimonps wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

6% flat dmg reduction to 3960 resistance is a nerf.

It’s a sizeable buff against anything else than bleeds, and that’s the point. The previous bonus was multiplicative, not additive, meaning that those 6% are very ineffective after the dust settles and mitigation is fully calculated. Read @paulsimonps excellent thread about damage calculation and mitigation (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire/) if you don’t believe that.

Edit:

DAMAGE TAKEN=Base Damage*(1-((Resistance/660)/100))*(1-(Mitigation #1)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #2)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #3)/100))*etc etc

The way you would use this formula is to replace the place holders with the percentage numbers that is show in the tool-tips in the game and obviously the resistance should be the number of which ever resistance you want to test with. If you have more than 3 sources than just add more to fill your needs. Now something you might notice is that this way of calculating will result in diminishing returns, what that means is that for each added mitigation source the usefulness of each individual source gets reduced. As an example, having 2 sources that give 50% mitigation will give you a total of 75% mitigation.

And that's exactly what happens with Nord's current Rugged passive.

@Feanor
@Qbiken

Did some quick math, this is with Gold 7 heavy and the heavy armor passive, gold shield and Major Ward/Resolve and saw how much the Nord change would effect someone like that in NO CP PvP with Minor Maim(Cause its so common).

OLD=100-(100*(1-((24433/660)/100))*(1-50/100)*(1-15/100)*(1-6/100))=74.8393689394

NEW=100-(100*(1-((28393/660)/100))*(1-50/100)*(1-15/100))=75.7833712121

This is if they were also blocking with a One Handed and Shield or a Frost Staff

OLD=100-(100*(1-((24433/660)/100))*(1-50/100)*(1-15/100)*(1-6/100)*(1-50/100)*(1-20/100))=89.9357475758

NEW=100-(100*(1-((28393/660)/100))*(1-50/100)*(1-15/100)*(1-50/100)*(1-20/100))=90.3133484848

So yea, there is a gap and against people that are not using Bleed it is a buff. Though Obviously for people that were at the cap and used Nord anyway, for whatever reason, it would be a nerf. Though I am gonna assume that is a tiny tiny tiny minority.

So we are talking about less the a percentage difference in the old vs new. Keep that in mind.