Racial Passive Changes - Cloaked Global Nerf

Vapirko · January 2019

Sorry, normally I’d join you in criticism of the changes as I have many times over the years, but for perhaps the first time ever I think ZOS has done a very solid job. They’ve kept most of the unique passives and at least on paper it looks good. Id not consider myself a casual at all. They actually balanced the races without removing the unique passives.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · January 2019

Ok, so we'll go through a first glance look.

Redguard - that 9% on recovery didn't give much to end game players. 8% cost reduction on weapon skills does. And adrenaline rush got a buff. Overall = BUFF

High Elves - Lost some Max Magicka, Gained in sustain with what is essentially a magicka adrenaline rush. Also, that spell damage now applies to everything, not just specific elemental damage. Overall = Buff

Argonians - not going to argue that they got nerfed but the lizards needed it.

Wood Elves - lost some recovery and gained max stat as well as some speed with the new passive. Overall = BUFF

Breton - Lost some max magicka, gained recovery and further cost reduction. Overall = BUFF.

Dark Elf - lost some max stat and gained off stat and health. Lost flame damage and gained both weapon and spell damage. Overall = BUFF.

Imperial - lost some max health, gained stam on tank specs. Red diamond overall got buffed (less health return but higher chance). Cost reduction to block and bash. Overall = BUFF

Will do the rest later but this is not "the sky is falling scenarios" here. Don't treat it like it is.

Lab3360 · January 2019

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Ok, so we'll go through a first glance look.

Redguard - that 9% on recovery didn't give much to end game players. 8% cost reduction on weapon skills does. And adrenaline rush got a buff. Overall = BUFF

High Elves - Lost some Max Magicka, Gained in sustain with what is essentially a magicka adrenaline rush. Also, that spell damage now applies to everything, not just specific elemental damage. Overall = Buff

Argonians - not going to argue that they got nerfed but the lizards needed it.

Wood Elves - lost some recovery and gained max stat as well as some speed with the new passive. Overall = BUFF

Breton - Lost some max magicka, gained recovery and further cost reduction. Overall = BUFF.

Dark Elf - lost some max stat and gained off stat and health. Lost flame damage and gained both weapon and spell damage. Overall = BUFF.

Imperial - lost some max health, gained stam on tank specs. Red diamond overall got buffed (less health return but higher chance). Cost reduction to block and bash. Overall = BUFF

Will do the rest later but this is not "the sky is falling scenarios" here. Don't treat it like it is.

Its not the sky is falling scenario.
Im just tired of the cumulative affect of all these damn nerfs every fn update or patch.

Could be im just tired of mmos, since this seems to be there M.O.

I grew up with you pay for a game and thats what you got. Now you pay for a game and WHAM! We change it and make you weaker. But here is a discount token to make things better for you. But you will need to buy more if you want to change others too.

Im fn tired of this sht.

Undefwun · January 2019

Lab3360 wrote: »

Same reason why changed bring out casuals with there trash builds not hitting more than 15k dps and cant clear dps checks in COA 2.

Or tanks that cant clear Moonhunter keep because of casual trash builds.

Because, well, you know, passive and numbers dont matter in this game.

So you know how they changed shields on mag sorcs with Murkmire?

Mag Sorc was one of those classes you can take into PvP and do good on because the skill floor is lower than say magblade.
Spam fury on some player far away, get a kill, feel useful.. if someone looked in your direction. cast 3 shields and run.

Do you know who cried the most when they nerfed shield stacking? The TRASH players. Most of the good ones sat down and figured out how to fix their build/play style, while the TRASH was whining on the forums.

Since you are such a bright spark, I'm sure you see where this is going...

I guarantee you, no one in my progression guild is gonna suddenly under perform. I give em 2 days after PTS is out they will have found a way around it and pass it down to the plebs like me.

Lab3360 · January 2019

Undefwun wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Same reason why changed bring out casuals with there trash builds not hitting more than 15k dps and cant clear dps checks in COA 2.

Or tanks that cant clear Moonhunter keep because of casual trash builds.

Because, well, you know, passive and numbers dont matter in this game.

So you know how they changed shields on mag sorcs with Murkmire?

Mag Sorc was one of those classes you can take into PvP and do good on because the skill floor is lower than say magblade.
Spam fury on some player far away, get a kill, feel useful.. if someone looked in your direction. cast 3 shields and run.

Do you know who cried the most when they nerfed shield stacking? The TRASH players. Most of the good ones sat down and figured out how to fix their build/play style, while the TRASH was whining on the forums.

Since you are such a bright spark, I'm sure you see where this is going...

I guarantee you, no one in my progression guild is gonna suddenly under perform. I give em 2 days after PTS is out they will have found a way around it and pass it down to the plebs like me.

I know bro. I think im just tired of the constant and unecessary changes. There will be work arounds coming. Im just not sure if the game is even worth the trouble anymore, because the next patch, they will change something else for some bs reason and then I will have tonadjust that. Its like they just nake changes just so youre always busy.

How about fixing the lag in the service
How about fixing bad targeting system
How about fixing some of these sad gear sets that are worthless.
How about making useless skills workable.
How about fixing some of the broken mechanics and glitches in some trials and dungeons
How about fixing the memory loss issue that has plagued this gsme since launch.

Yet, this is what they chose to work on (racial passives?).

clocksstoppe · January 2019

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Dark Elf - Overall = BUFF.

Jhalin · January 2019

Khajiit - a “hybrid” race in the gutter with every other “hybrid” anything

zaria · January 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

Khajiit - a “hybrid” race in the gutter with every other “hybrid” anything

Khajiit and Dumer are a lot in the same boat because hybrids don't work.
You can argue that Khajiit and Dumer players tend to select race first then class so you have to give them something.

Girl_Number8 · January 2019

clocksstoppe wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Dark Elf - Overall = BUFF.

Ummmm, how they thought dark elf got a buff is just, smh.

Undefwun · January 2019

Lab3360 wrote: »

[

I know bro. I think im just tired of the constant and unecessary changes. There will be work arounds coming. Im just not sure if the game is even worth the trouble anymore, because the next patch, they will change something else for some bs reason and then I will have tonadjust that. Its like they just nake changes just so youre always busy.

How about fixing the lag in the service
How about fixing bad targeting system
How about fixing some of these sad gear sets that are worthless.
How about making useless skills workable.
How about fixing some of the broken mechanics and glitches in some trials and dungeons
How about fixing the memory loss issue that has plagued this gsme since launch.

Yet, this is what they chose to work on (racial passives?).

^^ now this version of you I can talk to.

Well it is an MMO, they always change. You deal with it or you leave if it's not fun anymore. I still have fun, so I stay.
I almost left when Sloads was rampant with every clown shoe running the set in BGs.

I've said it since Summerset. Stop making content DLCs. I know the casuals need their shinies, but no more content.
Instead make 1 solid FIX-STUFF DLC. I sub. Have since I came back in Nov 17 when I came back. I subbed when i played in '14 to early '15. I actually forgot to cancel my sub and payed for 6 months after i stopped playing, BUT I would pay separately for a FIX-STUFF DLC.....

Well just like necromancy, alot of ppl whined about racial passives. So they addressed it. What the complainers didn't think of is, that ZOS wasn't just gonna downgrade lizard potion sustain and buff their favorite class like they wanted and be done with it. No no no, ZOS addressed it all.

And there you go...they got racial changes and it's funny to me, because now alot of the same people are complaining about it.. "but but but this is not what I wanted... "

Like I said it's and MMO, you adapt and keep going or you quit and find something that brings you joy again...

beadabow · January 2019

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Ok, so we'll go through a first glance look.

Redguard - that 9% on recovery didn't give much to end game players. 8% cost reduction on weapon skills does. And adrenaline rush got a buff. Overall = BUFF

High Elves - Lost some Max Magicka, Gained in sustain with what is essentially a magicka adrenaline rush. Also, that spell damage now applies to everything, not just specific elemental damage. Overall = Buff

Argonians - not going to argue that they got nerfed but the lizards needed it.

Wood Elves - lost some recovery and gained max stat as well as some speed with the new passive. Overall = BUFF

Breton - Lost some max magicka, gained recovery and further cost reduction. Overall = BUFF.

Dark Elf - lost some max stat and gained off stat and health. Lost flame damage and gained both weapon and spell damage. Overall = BUFF.

Imperial - lost some max health, gained stam on tank specs. Red diamond overall got buffed (less health return but higher chance). Cost reduction to block and bash. Overall = BUFF

Will do the rest later but this is not "the sky is falling scenarios" here. Don't treat it like it is.

Thank you for the summaries and conclusions, I think you are spot on in most of your assessments. I disagree with the Dark Elf changes being a buff (other than to hybrid character players) though. Seems like they diluted the Dark Elve's pre-existing magic potency to me for a weaker (and therefore a nerf) spread of stam/magicka/ and health. Regardless of whether the changes are considered a nerf or a buff, playing dark elves in the future will be both more challenging and interesting to see.

Khrogo · January 2019

We’ve been here before: It’s Morrowind all over again. The sky is falling! No, it’s not. We need to be nerfed every now and again. Every year we get 120 champion points. Those points aren’t cosmetic, they cause power creep which, left unchecked, is a problem. Personally, I’d prefer not to sleepwalk through game content.

Undefwun · January 2019

Just thought I'd point something out as an example.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453630/update-21-nord-rugged-passive-a-mathematical-analysis

This is how changes should be analysed, not non factual posts based on emotion at ZOS... like alot of the threads at the moment

sekou_trayvond · January 2019

Lab3360 wrote: »

sekou_trayvond wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

No. Its not the direction they went. This is ludacris.

lol

In my mind this is how I think milennials believe 'ludicrous' is spelled.

Lol

1. Im probably old enough to be youre father

2. My kids use my phone and it comes up in dictionary as auto.

not unless your 77 there, sir

ZOS_RikardD · January 2019

Greetings,

We've had to remove some comments from this topic for baiting and insult.

Please remember to keep conversations constructive, civil and on-topic and take a moment to review our Community Rules here. Thank you.

Lab3360 · January 2019

Undefwun wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

[

I know bro. I think im just tired of the constant and unecessary changes. There will be work arounds coming. Im just not sure if the game is even worth the trouble anymore, because the next patch, they will change something else for some bs reason and then I will have tonadjust that. Its like they just nake changes just so youre always busy.

How about fixing the lag in the service
How about fixing bad targeting system
How about fixing some of these sad gear sets that are worthless.
How about making useless skills workable.
How about fixing some of the broken mechanics and glitches in some trials and dungeons
How about fixing the memory loss issue that has plagued this gsme since launch.

Yet, this is what they chose to work on (racial passives?).

^^ now this version of you I can talk to.

Well it is an MMO, they always change. You deal with it or you leave if it's not fun anymore. I still have fun, so I stay.
I almost left when Sloads was rampant with every clown shoe running the set in BGs.

I've said it since Summerset. Stop making content DLCs. I know the casuals need their shinies, but no more content.
Instead make 1 solid FIX-STUFF DLC. I sub. Have since I came back in Nov 17 when I came back. I subbed when i played in '14 to early '15. I actually forgot to cancel my sub and payed for 6 months after i stopped playing, BUT I would pay separately for a FIX-STUFF DLC.....

Well just like necromancy, alot of ppl whined about racial passives. So they addressed it. What the complainers didn't think of is, that ZOS wasn't just gonna downgrade lizard potion sustain and buff their favorite class like they wanted and be done with it. No no no, ZOS addressed it all.

And there you go...they got racial changes and it's funny to me, because now alot of the same people are complaining about it.. "but but but this is not what I wanted... "

Like I said it's and MMO, you adapt and keep going or you quit and find something that brings you joy again...

I may very well be done then bro.
I really am tired of the hampster wheel feel.
Maybe just done mmos or any service game. I didnt grow up with this type of business model in gaming.

This feels very wrong to pay a comoany to nerf youre progress practically every update.

juttaa77b16_ESO · January 2019

The changes themselves aren't the only reason people are complaining about the racial changes. They aren't even the main complaint. The biggest complaint is that they are trying to sell us balancing of the races in the crown store because they balanced the races poorly from the beginning. 1 token per account is a pitance when many players already have many leveled alts @3k crowns per char nonetheless. We already pay for the sub, dlc's, and expansions for the game services in which balancing is included imho. We shouldn't be paying for their errors and that is basically what's happening here. so I agree with the majority here. This is a no no.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · January 2019

im a tank and im ok with it...nb tanking gets some now especially as khajiit...so again what nerf? I see only flavor.

Chrlynsch · January 2019

%based race passive inceases were being amplifed each CP increase and further creating a rift between meta and non meta set ups. These changes will help keep that power creep in check.

Lab3360 · January 2019

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

im a tank and im ok with it...nb tanking gets some now especially as khajiit...so again what nerf? I see only flavor.

From a strictly mathmatical standpoint, any conversion from a percentage value to a flat value under 6k is a nerf regarding combat metric.

GarnetFire17 · January 2019

Undefwun wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Same reason why changed bring out casuals with there trash builds not hitting more than 15k dps and cant clear dps checks in COA 2.

Or tanks that cant clear Moonhunter keep because of casual trash builds.

Because, well, you know, passive and numbers dont matter in this game.

So you know how they changed shields on mag sorcs with Murkmire?

Mag Sorc was one of those classes you can take into PvP and do good on because the skill floor is lower than say magblade.
Spam fury on some player far away, get a kill, feel useful.. if someone looked in your direction. cast 3 shields and run.

Do you know who cried the most when they nerfed shield stacking? The TRASH players. Most of the good ones sat down and figured out how to fix their build/play style, while the TRASH was whining on the forums.

Since you are such a bright spark, I'm sure you see where this is going...

I guarantee you, no one in my progression guild is gonna suddenly under perform. I give em 2 days after PTS is out they will have found a way around it and pass it down to the plebs like me.

To be fair trash players need feel like they can be good, otherwise they quit and the game dies. So i still think it was a bad move.

GarnetFire17 · January 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

The changes themselves aren't the only reason people are complaining about the racial changes. They aren't even the main complaint. The biggest complaint is that they are trying to sell us balancing of the races in the crown store because they balanced the races poorly from the beginning. 1 token per account is a pitance when many players already have many leveled alts @3k crowns per char nonetheless. We already pay for the sub, dlc's, and expansions for the game services in which balancing is included imho. We shouldn't be paying for their errors and that is basically what's happening here. so I agree with the majority here. This is a no no.

Well they aren't trying to force it down your throat they are give you an option to change your race. would you rather not have a choice. Because if think these race changes wouldn't happen even if there was no way to change your race in the game you'd be kidding yourself.

karekiz · January 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

Race should be nothing but a cosmetic choice or whatever alliance you want to be a part of.

I disagree. Most old school MMO's had racial stats that mattered, while you could still do the build. Making them all cosmetic you might as well make everyone a human to reduce lag at that point.

Didgerion · January 2019

It indeed looks like a global nerf....wich is not a bad thing if it affects everyone equally.....but guess what...new class and new sets are coming...the global nerf will not be that global anymore.

OtarTheMad · January 2019

The sky isn't falling, everything will be just fine.

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

Lab3360 wrote: »

Seriously? This was the big change that was ushered as Big Game Improvement.

Health Tanks - Nerf
Magika Dps - Nerf
Stamina Dps - Nerf

Youre so called racial passive changed pretty much eliminated racial defining skills/passive. Zos either eliminated it certain passives or nerf them so badly where they will no long have any real effectiveness in endgame builds. You basically made ever Race so generic, they all will feel exactly the same.

So, what is the point in even having racial passives if the passive really wont matter. Why not make races simply a cosmetic difference only.

You have a lot of people who based builds around these passive since the inception of the game. Now you decide to pull the rug from underneath these players who were just working with established perameters by Zos.

This is biggest crock of you know what ever.

This does nothing regarding making races more versatile. Well, I mean of you include making races so generic to the point they are all function practically the same, then yes, they are versatile.

What a rip off. We thought there were going to be morphs to the passives. Something new. Nerfs are not new and they dont bring new customers, and the dont encourage loyal ones to stay.

29% of the playerbase does not want to see these changes. Thats a lot of people. Please listen!.

Not agree with your post,

I like these changes, they are good and some races may need tuning!

Aurielle · January 2019

Magicka Dunmer is basically dead. Guess I’m rerolling my magNB as a GD stamNB.

Weper · January 2019

They should just remove racial passives so we can play our favorite race. With the passives we are forced to play with the meta or at least with a viable race.

Ertosi · January 2019

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

High Elves - Lost some Max Magicka, Gained in sustain with what is essentially a magicka adrenaline rush. Also, that spell damage now applies to everything, not just specific elemental damage. Overall = Buff

This was a nerf to all pet sorcs due to the loss of Max Magicka and pets not scaling off of spell damage.

And if you were an elementalist like my thunder mage, it's a double hit.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Wood Elves - lost some recovery and gained max stat as well as some speed with the new passive. Overall = BUFF

Losing bonuses to stealth and bonus damage from stealth is a massive nerf to bosmers. And what do they get from it? Extra speed from tumbling which is made redundant from most already carrying bows.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Dark Elf - lost some max stat and gained off stat and health. Lost flame damage and gained both weapon and spell damage. Overall = BUFF.

The loss to flame damage and max stat is a massive nerf to one of the most iconic builds on Nirn, Dunmer fire mages. This is especially true for the dunmer MagDKs.

Ertosi · January 2019

Khrogo wrote: »

We’ve been here before: It’s Morrowind all over again. The sky is falling! No, it’s not. We need to be nerfed every now and again. Every year we get 120 champion points. Those points aren’t cosmetic, they cause power creep which, left unchecked, is a problem. Personally, I’d prefer not to sleepwalk through game content.

Did you not hear? The Champion point cap is now fixed and will not be increased any more.

Then with these racial changes truly being an overall nerf to max stats, they have our characters trimmed down from both ends without any more hope for vertical progression.