If you're on Xbox EU i can help out as i always like to go through the story myself^^

daemonios wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Yeah the normal version are ussually prety easy and can be done by ignoring a lot of the mechanics

Wrong. The most recent DLC dungeons are somewhat hard even on normal mode. Too hard for "just the story".
Besides, I don't know about other people but I cannot possibly go through a story while being in a group. Two different realities, two different rhythms, two different, incompatible things.

They really aren't. If you pay the faintest attention to mechanics, you can do all normal dungeons. Even if you don't pay attention you can often save a bad situation, as many things that would one-shot you won't in normal mode, and there is enough time for people to res their team mates.

I understand some people may not have the dexterity to do well with ESO's combat system, but I think they would be a very, very small minority, and though I think we should be as inclusive as possible, you really can't design an entire game around the least able players. The rest could use some practice with their respective classes. Hopefully the new tutorial I think was mentioned in yesterday's stream can fix some of that, as the current tutorials are painfully inadequate.

They're really not such a small minority. In fact I know a lot of people who have trouble with even base game dungeons. While I understand and agree that we can't design a game around either extreme (the best or the worst), I think you're vastly downplaying the difficulty of some of these dungeons for a good number of people.

Difficulty is subjective and just because you and I can do it blindfolded, that doesn't mean it's "not really difficult".

daemonios wrote: »

The rest could use some practice with their respective classes.

It's not a matter of ABILITY. It's a matter of fun. Many players who like stories and questing won't be "practising", not because they can't, but because they don't like it.
In recent DLC dungeons, normal mode isn't story mode any more.
So either they add a real story mode - or they keep DLC dungeons out of the story entirely.

Plus, as I already said, group and story are mutually exclusive.

that the story is tied to the Dungeons is fine IMO....the bigger problem I see here is that these Dungeons are only accesable via ESO+ or buying the DLC's.

They should have been included in Elsweyr, so that the story is not cutt of of players only having the option to buy Elsweyr.
Not everyone can throw the money for eso+ or Crown / DLC's.

its no issues getting the story if you go in the first days. Then nobody know the mechanics and all want the story.
Later on people want to rush as they has done it many times.
Still doing it on normal and say you need quest works out 90% of time.

And you can always drop quest if you feel you did not get it good enough.
Dropped quest twice in Scalecaller Peak as I entered an run in progress.

zaria wrote: »

its no issues getting the story if you go in the first days. Then nobody know the mechanics and all want the story.
Later on people want to rush as they has done it many times.
Still doing it on normal and say you need quest works out 90% of time.

And you can always drop quest if you feel you did not get it good enough.
Dropped quest twice in Scalecaller Peak as I entered an run in progress.

Not true. The only people who will likely be able to clear the dungeon at all in the first days are the more hardcore players who traditionally (not always, but usually), don't care about story period and will move through it as fast as possible.There is nothing wrong with this. That is their play style, and it's fine - but it is still true.

Needing the quest is not the same as actually being able to enjoy the quest. When you say that in a group most people expect you to slam through the dialogue not read it. Having to repeatedly do content you find frustrating in order to get to what you like is... well, counter intuitive. People should be enjoying themselves with their entertainment, not hating it.

All I'm saying here is that we need to acknowledge how odd it is that a group of people who are story focused are going to be the least likely to get to enjoy the story and that OP's concern is valid.

zaria wrote: »

And you can always drop quest if you feel you did not get it good enough.
Dropped quest twice in Scalecaller Peak as I entered an run in progress.

From what we have been told it is not just a side quest but part of an over-arching story.
So there may be no option to drop the quest.

Differentiation being quest and story.

Yeah but we know what happens in the story so it doesn't matter...

Ragnork wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Yeah but we know what happens in the story so it doesn't matter...

Except, with the limited information available, the story is over-arching - the implication is that progression depends on completion of what has gone before. So failure to complete one part precludes your ability to take the next step in the story.

And even if not as described; for those of us who like to read a book by starting on page one and reading through to the final page then picking up the book aka story at some random location is not as rewarding as it should be.

I don't believe they'll make participation in one part of the story actually dependent on having done the earlier parts; that would literally be saying "don't buy this chapter unless you also bought this DLC" and I can't see them wanting to restrict their revenue stream to completionists who buy everything. Probably we will have NPCs fill us in on what happened if we didn't complete earlier parts, but it certainly won't be as much fun as having been there.

daemonios wrote: »

They really aren't. If you pay the faintest attention to mechanics, you can do all normal dungeons. Even if you don't pay attention you can often save a bad situation, as many things that would one-shot you won't in normal mode, and there is enough time for people to res their team mates.

That's not my experience with DLC dungeons: I tried a couple with PUGs during the Undaunted event and we couldn't get past the first boss, while with premade I had a successful run with a group of two experienced players and two average (I was one of the latters) and another that ended with the group disbanding after a few wipe on the first miniboss (to be fair, this group hadn't a real tank as it was supposed to be a quick random normal run).

Generally speaking I found the DLC dungeons to be much harder than the base ones, and the more recent the harder, so I expect the Wrathstone dungeons to be tough nuts to crack

I am not sure if ZOS believe that by tying the over-arching main quest to DLC dungeons they will convince more "casuals" to queue for them or are attempting to monetize the concept by saying "want to see the whole story? Buy our dungeon DLC!", but I don't think they realise one simple truth:

Hardcore raiders who typically run dungeons and story-loving casual players are two separate groups that rarely intersect succesfully!

They want completely different things from their gaming experience, they tend not to understand the point of view of the other side (probably because it's so different from theirs) and basically, trying to forcibly mix them together is a Bad Idea.

What will happen is that on the one hand, hardcore raiders will be annoyed at the number of casuals clogging their queues with their RP builds, 15K max DPS and unoptimised rotations, while on the other players in it for the story will get frustrated at being kicked from groups or at best being sped-run through dungeons which defeats the point of trying to experience the story in the first place. Someone mentioned asking more raid-oriented guildies for screenshots of the dialogue as an alternative - that isn't my idea of enjoying a story, for sure.

People who are both competent enough to complete the difficult - even on story mode - latter DLC dungeons AND want to pause and take in the story are extremely few and far in between! I don't think some people realise how rare these people are, how hard it is to find even one other such person let alone a group which is both on your platform/server and available/willing to play when you are.

Lastly, a lot of casuals are casuals because we have limited time to play: to give myself as an example, I am in the final year of my degree so I have maybe an hour, and hour and a half a night to play games. In this time I want to relax and unwind after a stressful day and enjoy a new story in the game, not gear up for a cutthroat dungeon run with the elite....which I am not part of in the first place, partly because the aforementioned limited play time, partly because I simply don't have the skill/drive to practice for hours on end refining the sequence in which I press the keys on my keyboard. It's simply not what I find fun, I like my challenge somewhere in the middle.

And that is okay. This is a valid playstyle, just like aiming to be part of that elite crowd is a valid playstyle.

ZOS should just add a "Story Mode" to dungeons, like SWTOR has: regular quest-level rewards and XP only (no sets, no Undaunted) and doable solo or with a friend. But I have a feeling they won't, because they seem to be pushing this agenda of trying to get everyone into group dungeons, even those people who clearly don't want to.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Meh. I won't do DLC dungeons because they're a PITA.

A long, tedious PITA, with inane one-shot mechanics peppered through them. I wish I could turn off that crap from my subscription,. and zos needs to stop listening to the BS artists who say they can solo them.

In some ways, though, these PITA dungeons ARE our subscription. We get ONE story DLC a year now, TWO dungeon DLCs, and have to pay extra for the other story content / chapter.

Effectively forcing story-orientated players into dungeons they don't (necessarily) enjoy is not the way to address the fact that the subscription, in terms of DLC content, is now heavily biased towards dungeons.

(And if you don't think this is a problem, ask yourself this: Why is it the Chapter which has been cut off from the subscription, rather than the 2 dungeon DLCs?)