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It's Official. No Champion Point increase next Update. Thank you Rich for listening!
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fastolfv_ESO✭✭✭✭✭you can already cap the skills you need from cp any number of increases will have little to no impact to dps atm, we need the exact opposite bring implemented and have the cap removed. For most cps you can only get 14% so who cares if theres a cap or no cap0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).
No levels. Brand new player can run trials. Nothing earned. No sense of advancement from day 1 to day 365. May be an MMO, but it won't be an RPG.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 6:26AM6 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.
If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.
Didn't they "steal your progression" when they nerfed the hell out of CP with Morrowind?
Didn't they "steal your progression" when they nixed the VR system and switched to CP?
Didn't they steal our progression when they nerfed Sunderflame and NMG into the ground? I bet I spent 100+ hours farming Sunderflame daggers, and across my 2 accounts I bet I've got 5+ full sets of gold NMG and 20+ gold NMG weapons all collecting dust now.
Y'all are just afraid of change.Edited by LiquidPony on January 16, 2019 6:27AM6 -
Finviuswe✭✭✭✭SkoobySnaxx wrote: »yes im glad they stop raising cp
Oh me too lol or else you wouldn't b able to catch up that is my whole ploy lol lol.0 -
WitchyWarrior✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.
If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.
Get a life please.
Was that really necessary? And people say the community here is a welcome one with nice people. Not with comments like that.11 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Even simulation games have progression. A game without progression is a snooze fest. What they should do is start a new system with real vertical progression( CP is not vertical progression) and content and rewards for that progression. A majority of players like progression. They like to feel like they are getting somewhere and accomplishing something that is meaningful and useful to them. For those that dont like progression or level grinding....no one is forcing you to grind levels or level up. You can pick flowers and build furniture or whatever it is you do until the end of time.
They need to solve the progression problem. People who dont want to progress , dont have too if progression is there. People who want to progress in a game that has none, get bored and stop playing. This game is starting to remind of those money pit mobile games that just add junk to the game for you to buy and have very little in the way of a rewarding feeling for effort. If it wasnt for my wife playing a couple of times a week and me playing with her, i probably wouldnt even log in anymore.
Quest grind and dungeon grind got boring. New characters boring, Housing was decent until 4 out of 5 new houses cost more than dinner for two and were only available for 3 days out of the year.3 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a lazy fix, not impressed.
What they should have done is make new difficulties accounting for cp, but i guess it's too much to ask to actually follow up to the systems you make.
And people are glad about this, Jesus Christ, talk about low standards.
Everything I was going to say!
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »A majority of players like progression.
This game is growing every year precisely because it doesn't focus on vertical progression and has moved more towards a sandbox style.
The game's player base tripled after One Tamriel (the update that introduced scaling) came out and hasn't looked back since
So no, it would appear that the majority of players don't like vertical progression.
Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 7:12AM4 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »A majority of players like progression.
This game is growing every year precisely because it doesn't focus on vertical progression and has moved more towards a sandbox style.
The game's player base tripled after One Tamriel (the update that introduced scaling) came out and hasn't looked back since
So no, it would appear that the majority of players don't like vertical progression.
Vertical progression still exists. Base game content gets easier as your level, gear, and cp points grow. Dungeons get easier as levels, gear, and cp points grow. I can solo world bosses at my current cp level. I couldn't do that at level 1. I can solo some normal dungeons. I couldn't do that at level 1. That is progression.
If they come up with a new system of vertical character progression, I may quibble with some changes but I'll likely come around. If they remove progression completely or cap it permanently, I'm probably out.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 7:27AM5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »A majority of players like progression.
This game is growing every year precisely because it doesn't focus on vertical progression and has moved more towards a sandbox style.
The game's player base tripled after One Tamriel (the update that introduced scaling) came out and hasn't looked back since
So no, it would appear that the majority of players don't like vertical progression.
Vertical progression still exists. Base game content gets easier as your level, gear, and cp points grow. Dungeons get easier as levels, gear, and cp points grow. I can solo world bosses at my current cp level. I couldn't do that at level 1. I can solo some normal dungeons. I couldn't do that at level 1. That is progression.
If they come up with a new system of vertical character progression, I may quibble with some changes but I'll likely come around. If they remove progression completely or cap it permanently, I'm probably out.
Power creep isn't a positive outcome (hence why ZOS is scrapping the CP system). It reduces how much content is available to the player in a game. Content isn't supposed to get easier in a sandbox. If there are 7 trials but only one of them is challenging, then players will only have 1 trial to play, instead of 7. Endgame players were among the most vocal opponents of the CP system.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 7:32AM2 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭Trancestor wrote: »At least make it 900 cp for OCD purposes
Agree.
The Thief => 300 CPs.
The Mage => 300 CPs.
The Warrior => 300 CPs.
And it never increases!
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VanyelMohr✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »A majority of players like progression.
This game is growing every year precisely because it doesn't focus on vertical progression and has moved more towards a sandbox style.
The game's player base tripled after One Tamriel (the update that introduced scaling) came out and hasn't looked back since
So no, it would appear that the majority of players don't like vertical progression.
Vertical progression still exists. Base game content gets easier as your level, gear, and cp points grow. Dungeons get easier as levels, gear, and cp points grow. I can solo world bosses at my current cp level. I couldn't do that at level 1. I can solo some normal dungeons. I couldn't do that at level 1. That is progression.
If they come up with a new system of vertical character progression, I may quibble with some changes but I'll likely come around. If they remove progression completely or cap it permanently, I'm probably out.
Power creep isn't a positive outcome (hence why ZOS is scrapping the CP system). It reduces how much content is available to the player in a game. Content isn't supposed to get easier in a sandbox. If there are 7 trials but only one of them is challenging, then players will only have 1 trial to play, instead of 7. Endgame players were among the most vocal opponents of the CP system.
Bully for them. They aren't the only players in the game and I don't know if they are even the majority of players in the game.9 -
Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭So, in ESO, Gear cant progress (I literally wear the same outfit for 3 years now and it still is the most efficient possible), and now you cant progress with Champion Points. PvP is leveled out in a day or two and PvE is either way too easy (all the Worldcontent and almost all the solocontent), or way too hard (DlC-Veterandungeons), and you cant outgear any of the content.
So, what exactly is there to do in ESO? Stand in Mournhold showing off your Costumes and Store-Mounts?12 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CP is one of those contentious things that this community can never have a tempered, balanced discussion about. The simple reason being that it is time and time again approached as a black and white subject, but really has many facets and angles, motivations and reasons behind the simple yes/no solution discourse tries to achieve.
In this thread alone, we see:
Players at/beyond/near cap
CP is worthless and has minimal impact on progression vs CP has enabled me to configure my character the way I want/need
For this there are 2 valid statements that hold equally true:- CP works as a system of diminishing returns. By design, the more you have, the less impact it has.
- Having more CP has meant the ability to invest more liberally to suppliment the short falls of play style, gear and build*.
Players below CP level, or at the bottom of the scale
It's a long and daunting, ever increasing grind to cap vs something to work toward and achieve
Single statement:- Moving goal posts means nothing is ever achieved
Players in the middle region
CP is rigid and forces me to assign into BiS stars vs investing CP edges me into harder content and I feel improvement
Single statement:- Diminishing returns means you will front load the most useful stars for best gain until you have more.
Content
New content is designed for current cap, making progression an illusion and rendering older content redundant- The closer you are to cap, the easier content is; the further away you are, the harder it is.
- Players at or beyond cap are not affected by the increased difficulty = more mechanic driven content
I read somewhere an opinion that there should be milestone content and character bound items locked behind CP @ 100, 200, 300, 400 and so on which does not scale beyond the next milestone, which provides purpose to progression.I can't agree with that and it feels like a step in the wrong direction. However, instanced, CP scaled solo content might work (as the only alternative to vMA); group finder that matches players (role free) @ CP range and scales content to group might also be valid.
The real issue is not the CP system per se, but the ever increasing pool of CP and the static choices for investment. To me, the solution would be to- slow rate of earning beyond the current cap (i.e. decrease enlightenment and increase value to next point) or disable
- add soft caps to stats, making investment in certain stars for certain configurations useless whilst remaining usable for others
- add new stars that add non-combat/QoL player perks (like inventory, mount, crafting, trait research time, housing, vendor pricing, etc.)
- give CP investment negative effects, e.g. passed a certain point in one star has detrimental effects on certain stats like damage beyond x = -y in resistance or y% greater cost of skills
- allow CP to be assigned into passive stars once unlocked
- allow CP to unlock out of class, champion or prestige skills within class skill lines
ZOS has painted themselves into a corner with the CP system. Whatever decision they make, anything retroactively making players weaker will be the wrong one.
*think Xynode vs Alcast where concept, gear, skills and CP are widely different but equally effectiveEdited by mairwen85 on January 16, 2019 1:09PM3 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭I am glad they finally stopped raising the bar on CP. It is a daunting task to get cap. I started playing in Sep 2017. Then the cap was 660. Here we are in Jan 2019 and it is 810. I am close to cap with 758. I look forward to finally being at cap.
If they raised the cap once a year? I would have no problem with it. But damn near every 3 months? It's way too quick.
And as @mairwen85 said. Everybody is all over the place when it comes to CP discussion. One side says, "You don't need to be at cap. Everything is front loaded at 300. CP is irrelevant after that!"
Then you got those who say, "I need my CP's at cap. I need to feel more powerful by having it raised. You shouldn't be in Vet Dungeons unless you are at or close to cap!"
So which is it? People change their tune concerning CP depending on what side of the argument they want to be on that day. For me? I have no issues with CP. I like it. I just want them to either pick a number as cap and stick with it. Or if we have to have it raised every once in awhile, space that sith out so those who do join up can reasonably catch up in a reasonable amount of time. It shouldn't take anybody a year to grind their character to max. Even when I did the Jedi grind in Pre-CU SWG, it never took me this long to max my character.0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »
If they raised the cap once a year? I would have no problem with it. But damn near every 3 months? It's way too quick.
Once year an Increase of 120 or 4x 30 Points makes absolutly no difference what so ever.
4x30 Points will keep you way more in the Game than 1x 120.
So buisnesswise 4x30 is better for ZOS.
Furthermore, when a DLC releses you will get the increase, (if aoure at cap already) you will just passivly grind the next 30 Points till the next release, and thats how the wheel turns.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »A majority of players like progression.
This game is growing every year precisely because it doesn't focus on vertical progression and has moved more towards a sandbox style.
The game's player base tripled after One Tamriel (the update that introduced scaling) came out and hasn't looked back since
So no, it would appear that the majority of players don't like vertical progression.
Vertical progression still exists. Base game content gets easier as your level, gear, and cp points grow. Dungeons get easier as levels, gear, and cp points grow. I can solo world bosses at my current cp level. I couldn't do that at level 1. I can solo some normal dungeons. I couldn't do that at level 1. That is progression.
If they come up with a new system of vertical character progression, I may quibble with some changes but I'll likely come around. If they remove progression completely or cap it permanently, I'm probably out.
Power creep isn't a positive outcome (hence why ZOS is scrapping the CP system). It reduces how much content is available to the player in a game. Content isn't supposed to get easier in a sandbox. If there are 7 trials but only one of them is challenging, then players will only have 1 trial to play, instead of 7. Endgame players were among the most vocal opponents of the CP system.
Bully for them. They aren't the only players in the game and I don't know if they are even the majority of players in the game.
They aren't a simple look at stats for Vet Dungeons and trials tells you they are a very small but noisy minority.4 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some people talk like the game isn't worth playing if they don't get their 1% crit damage, 1% damage mitigation and 1% cost reduction each update. ESO is heavily based on lore and has a ton of content of all kind. You enjoy it the same with 700 cp and 1400 cp. Unless what you need is the self satisfaction of reading big CP numbers. If you actively tried to grind CP, maybe you didn't understand how the game was intended to be played. I understand the need of progression, but this game is skill based, and has a lot of achievements and content. Maybe ESO is not for you if you value more the CP than the actual content of the game. And the CP have been detrimental to the content of the game.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH2 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH6 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
The truth of the matter is that some players simply cannot develop the same skill as others. Character progression helps to diminish that difference. Some people have inferior computers or internet connections. Your "skill" is just another content gate with a different name. You're welcome to tell people that they don't deserve to play the game if they can't develop the skill. I think that's a jerk thing to do, though.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 9:08AM10 -
Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
Oh my god, I just fell asleep while reading your post. Very dangerous at work!
But seriously, Playerprogression isnt really an incentive. I mean how long does a gamer need to learn a mmo-class. A day, maybe two?1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »... CP have been detrimental to the content of the game.
I don't believe any content has been ruined or diminished by CP. I can't think of any examples, other than taking it to the abstract and saying that high CP when properly invested makes content easier -- but then, isn't newer content designed for CP with that very intent? If I'm wrong, please give me an example of this.Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
Is an interesting idea, but how would that work? Can you assign a rewards system or beneficial returns, or would this be a pure personal achievement thing? How would gear scale in such a system? Should it? What mechanism would otherwise provide extension to core build and classes? How does a software system matricize player progression? Does it need to?
See, the way I think is: we can all have an opinion; we can all state our case; we can all say yes or no -- but what actually works to promote change and solidify is solutions and alternatives. Removing CP outright will be retroactively weakening players and take away the benefits and rewards they have gained through completing content and playing the game. How would you compensate that, or what would you suggest ZOS offer up to replace it?Edited by mairwen85 on January 16, 2019 9:09AM2 -
TheNightflame✭✭✭✭✭it would be great if we could get more skill points, just in such that class skills and morphs and passives no linger need skill point kinda way. like at certain landmarks, certain skills are perma unlocked for your toon0
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munster1404✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Elwendryll wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Skill. The thing that you develop yourself by playing the game. Player progression, instead of character progression.
The truth of the matter is that some players simply cannot develop the same skill as others. Character progression helps to diminish that difference. Some people have inferior computers or internet connections. Your "skill" is just another content gate with a different name. You're welcome to tell people that they don't deserve to play the game if they can't develop the skill. I think that's a jerk thing to do, though.
Agree to that. CPs help mediocre and casual players. 1% extra damage or mitigation is still a bonus as a reward for putting in the hours. I could only solo some world bosses when I reached CP 600+. The number of world bosses or harder content I can tackle with any kind of confidence gradually increased with higher CP caps. To me, that’s a good thing.
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lokulin✭✭✭✭✭It seems the current mode of operation is to try and continue to attract new players and not worry about player churn. I guess they see the most dollars spent up front with new players buying the expansions, cosmetics etc. While this is the case we probably won't ever see any proper focus on end game improvements. Seems like most MMOs go this way.I've hidden your signature.3
